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Pre-Game Talk: Leafs vs Blues

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ACC1224 said:
Glad they’ve finally realized Holl is much better suited to the bottom pair. He’s seems to be playing his way off the team.
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i think he’s going to get moved, for salary purposes. It’s gonna be him or Kerfoot and I’m hoping we can somehow move holl!
 
I am glad to see Liljegren on the second pairing. The Leafs need to develop from within rather than trade for another shiny new toy.
 
That second line needs to change, they've been stagnant for weeks now. Sure, they'll get a secondary assist here and there, but they need to produce more goals than they have been. The suggestions of moving Kase or Mikheyev up sounds good.

Figured Campbell would start, Mrazek is garbage. .899% so far this season, hasn't been good enough.
 
ACC1224 said:
Glad they’ve finally realized Holl is much better suited to the bottom pair. He’s seems to be playing his way off the team.
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Holl struggled early in the season but it's actually Muzzin who has struggled more of late (and the concussion didnt help)

I've always defended that pairing but I really liked what I've seen from the two pairings they are going with.

Holl's number's since Nov. are actually really good and even when he was paired with Sandin earlier, he wasnt facing bottom pairing usage.

Since November 1st 5v5:

OZone starts: 41.73%
Shot Differential: 52.79%
Expected Goal Differential: 56.93%
Goal Differential: 58.84

Just defensively:
Shots Against/60: 29.57
Expected Goals Against/60: 2.19
Goals Against/60: 2.18 (Lowest among all Leaf Dmen)

He's also a mainstay on the top PK pairing of one of the best penalty kills in the league.

Holl has not been bad since then. It's just a bad narrative at this point. Unless he's the luckiest player in the league for some reason, it's impossible to be a bad player with those numbers. Just statistically, he's been one of the better 4s in the league Since the start of November.

It is what it is.
 
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X66 said:
Everyone please say it with me…

Justin Holl at his contract is a good piece…

Dermott should he move before him.
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I am going to get some flack for this but, I genuinely believe if Holl stops trying to be the second coming of Bobby Orr, we could see him return to his last season's form. When he focuses mostly on defence and moving the puck to our skaters quickly, he has legitimate top 4 upside. When he tries to pinch too much, he gets caught up and can't keep up with the evolving play. That's my biggest gripe with him. So having him on the bottom pair where he lets Sandin outlet passes to forwards in transition while he plays sound defence could bode very well.
 
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Apotheosis said:
I am going to get some flack for this but, I genuinely believe if Holl stops trying to be the second coming of Bobby Orr, we could see him return to his last season's form. When he focuses mostly on defence and moving the puck to our skaters quickly, he has legitimate top 4 upside. When he tries to pinch too much, he gets caught up and can't keep up with the evolving play. That's my biggest gripe with him. So having him on the bottom pair where he lets Sandin outlet passes to forwards in transition while he plays sound defence could bode very well.
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Sandin has the IQ to keep things under control too. I'm sure they're in constant communication when on the ice. You can already see it in some games. Sandin is moving the pieces around making Holl have to think less.
 
Ashdown2 said:
they need to break up that second line, they have been dogshit for too long .. dont care what it is , throw all bottom 9 guys bottom guys in a blender and see what sticks.
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Too bad Matthews and Marner demand to be joined at the hip.
 
I thought muzzin looked pretty good in the Pittsburgh game that was just my eye test anyway threw a good hit to
 
Zybalto said:
Holl struggled early in the season but it's actually Muzzin who has struggled more of late (and the concussion didnt help)

I've always defended that pairing but I really liked what I've seen from the two pairings they are going with.

Holl's number's since Nov. are actually really good and even when he was paired with Sandin earlier, he wasnt facing bottom pairing usage.

Since November 1st 5v5:

OZone starts: 41.73%
Shot Differential: 52.79%
Expected Goal Differential: 56.93%
Goal Differential: 58.84

Just defensively:
Shots Against/60: 29.57
Expected Goals Against/60: 2.19
Goals Against/60: 2.18 (Lowest among all Leaf Dmen)

He's also a mainstay on the top PK pairing of one of the best penalty kills in the league.

Holl has not been bad since then. It's just a bad narrative at this point. Unless he's the luckiest player in the league for some reason, it's impossible to be a bad player with those numbers. Just statistically, he's been one of the better 4s in the league Since the start of November.

It is what it is.
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The narrative is smoke mirrors and popular perception. Even an old guy like me sees Holl passing the eye test. Yes he makes error and with his minutes you expect some, but I'll tell you this, just watch Parayko tonight instead of watching the offense, you'll see errors, there isn't an NHL dman who doesn't make a few game in and game out.
 
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therealkoho said:
The narrative is smoke mirrors and popular perception. Even an old guy like me sees Holl passing the eye test. Yes he makes error and with his minutes you expect some, but I'll tell you this, just watch Parayko tonight instead of watching the offense, you'll see errors, there isn't an NHL dman who doesn't make a few game in and game out.
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I have been saying it for a while now. This fanbase in general needs a whipping boy on defense. This is going back generations. If we run Holl out of town as this version of the whipping boy he would land on his feet somewhere else and all of a sudden...he wouldn't be so bad anymore. Mostly because he isn't bad now and people just freakout anytime he is on the ice for a goal against.
 
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Maplebeasts said:
Me too man. It's really hard hearing the mouths on TV talking trash about hos game when there's really no reason for it. Same balogne Nylander had in his first few seasons.
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Most of it is just pride. A lot easier for them to pick out and harp on a mistake and double down then it is to admit they might have judged a player without actually watching him play.
 
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Ashdown2 said:
agreed.
nylander - tavares - kase
kerfoot - kampf - mikheyev

seems like a logical change.
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Agreed. Kase brings more skill than Mikh or Kerfoot and is still defensively responsible enough. And Kerfoot is good enough to at least keep the third line level.
 
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LEAFANFORLIFE23 said:
Lilly in the top 4 has been tried a couple and it hasn't been good, but to be fair the last time I remember it tried Sandin was his defense partner who is also a rookie, tonight he has Muzzin let's see if it goes better with a veteran beside him.
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The last time toronto played stl liljegren was in top 4 with muzzin and liljegren cost 3 goal but scored his 1st
 
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