Confirmed with Link: Leafs Trade: Liljegren to San Jose for Matt Benning, 3rd and 6th

[ULF_55]

Cap-era NHL is all about value per cap dollar. Timmy might be marginally better than the guys you've mentioned, but on a per-dollar basis he's worse value than all of them, so makes all the sense in the world that he's out.

Kind of makes you wonder if the navigator needs some lessons on steering the ship?

Could he not have signed him to a better deal?

They came to agreement, so both parties agreed on the value.

What is done is done, and it is for the better for all parties.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

This should not have been a cap space move in the first place. That only became a factor when Treliving overpaid him in the offseason, and then failed to build a cap compliant team.

You have a bit of high school baggage huh?

Yes.

I would say that I disagree. He doesn't have the ability to play with or ahead of Rielly, Tanev, or OEL.

 

[Rare Jewel]

You have a bit high school baggage huh?


I would say that I disagree. He doesn't have the ability to play with or ahead of Rielly, Tanev, or OEL.

OEL would've been a good partner for him; I'm glad we got to see it...

 

[ULF_55]

You have a bit high school baggage huh?


I would say that I disagree. He doesn't have the ability to play with or ahead of Rielly, Tanev, or OEL.

Except, we know all 3 of those players are on the decline.

I have no expectations Benoir, Timmins, nor Myers are going to replace those players when they fall off the cliff, which is inevitable.

 

[Martin Skoula]

The idea that Lily could have thrived in Berube’s coaching environment had he been given a chance while simultaneously failing to make the actual team doesn’t really jive.

I don’t think his value changed after 10 games in the press box unless you want to go on record to say the Leafs left a 1st or a 2nd round pick on the table…

Whatever he was this season wasn’t worth much but I’m not really seeing what made Sandin worth a 1st at the deadline and Liljegren worth scraps. The have the same career high in points, Liljegren did it twice and in less games, has the better frame, skating, defense, RHD. I don’t think it’s unrealistic to have gotten a late 1st or 2nd for Liljegren between now and last offseason, by all accounts a worse GM flipped a less valuable defenseman for more.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[LeafEgo]

One thing overlooked is that Berube didn't know Lilly when Tre was working the contract. The whole thing wasn't clean, but pick #65 and a 6th is pretty close to a 2nd. It's just fallout from having to change coaches.

Edit: it's Edm or Col 3rd, so lost a little bit of ground.

Whatever he was this season wasn’t worth much but I’m not really seeing what made Sandin worth a 1st at the deadline and Liljegren worth scraps. The have the same career high in points, Liljegren did it twice and in less games, has the better frame, skating, defense, RHD. I don’t think it’s unrealistic to have gotten a late 1st or 2nd for Liljegren between now and last offseason, by all accounts a worse GM flipped a less valuable defenseman for more.

Sandin was 22 when he was traded, Lilly 25. And Sandin was only on his second contract at 1.4M.

 

[Martin Skoula]

One thing overlooked is that Berube didn't know Lilly when Tre was working the contract. The whole thing wasn't clean, but pick #65 and a 6th is pretty close to a 2nd. It's just fallout from having to change coaches.


Sandin was 22 when he was traded, Lilly 25. And Sandin was only on his second contract at 1.4M.

Age sure, I don’t think Washington getting a season of Sandin at 1.4 during a non competitive year is a major factor in the value here.

 

[LeafEgo]

Age sure, I don’t think Washington getting a season of Sandin at 1.4 during a non competitive year is a major factor in the value here.

Not really but it's more market value generally attached to the asset, if there was another bidder, and the team gets control over the third contract - which Caps faceplanted.

Also that was a very good trade for the Leafs, he wasn't worth that much imo.

 

[Stephen]

Whatever he was this season wasn’t worth much but I’m not really seeing what made Sandin worth a 1st at the deadline and Liljegren worth scraps. The have the same career high in points, Liljegren did it twice and in less games, has the better frame, skating, defense, RHD. I don’t think it’s unrealistic to have gotten a late 1st or 2nd for Liljegren between now and last offseason, by all accounts a worse GM flipped a less valuable defenseman for more.

Well Sandin was drafted in 2018 and traded in mid 2023. Liljegren was drafted in 2017 and traded in late 2024. So I think there’s also a difference between trading a Dman when he’s a little younger vs 2.5 years later when there’s more data on them. To Dubas’ credit I’d say the return on Sandin was surprising at the time. I don’t think there’s a world where Liljegren coming off the Boston series would have given us a 1st or 2nd. If it was possible it would have happened right?

 

[DarkKnight]

Jason Bukala was on Sportsnet yesterday and was asked how worried he was Lil becomes a serious top 4 defender elsewhere, he said "0 percent". Was interesting analysis that mirrored what many had said about him. Said even back when he was on the big ice, he struggled with processing the game at a high level, had wheels but that always worried him. That inability to process the game is what we heard held him back at the AHL making the jump. I think that's where the disconnect comes with him, some see he can skate, make a pass, play well in spurts, but it's his low IQ that forms the hesitation side. In tight games, without space and time, Lil makes idiotic plays and demonstrates no poise. As Bukala said he complicates simple plays, something I always noticed too. Anyways, he had the book on him and explains too why there has never been much interest in him around the league, that's the sentiment.

 

[sxvnert]

Jason Bukala was on Sportsnet yesterday and was asked how worried he was Lil becomes a serious top 4 defender elsewhere, he said "0 percent". Was interesting analysis that mirrored what many had said about him. Said even back when he was on the big ice, he struggled with processing the game at a high level, had wheels but that always worried him. That inability to process the game is what we heard held him back at the AHL making the jump. I think that's where the disconnect comes with him, some see he can skate, make a pass, play well in spurts, but it's his low IQ that forms the hesitation side. In tight games, without space and time, Lil makes idiotic plays and demonstrates no poise. As Bukala said he complicates simple plays, something I always noticed too. Anyways, he had the book on him and explains too why there has never been much interest in him around the league, that's the sentiment.

This was obvious in every NHL game he's ever played. I'm sure he could become a decent offensive defencemen for rebuilding teams but that's not what this team needs.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Has Benning ever played for the penguins? If not, I have no idea who that man is

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

One thing overlooked is that Berube didn't know Lilly when Tre was working the contract. The whole thing wasn't clean, but pick #65 and a 6th is pretty close to a 2nd. It's just fallout from having to change coaches.

Edit: it's Edm or Col 3rd, so lost a little bit of ground.


Sandin was 22 when he was traded, Lilly 25. And Sandin was only on his second contract at 1.4M.

Also to add to this comment is that Sandin looked pretty good on the offensive side of things compared to Lilly along with the thought that some PP time would increase his numbers. The fact that Sandin went on to sign a stupidly overpriced contract and then still be a meh D-man might have scared some suitors off of Lilly.

 

[weems]

Jason Bukala was on Sportsnet yesterday and was asked how worried he was Lil becomes a serious top 4 defender elsewhere, he said "0 percent". Was interesting analysis that mirrored what many had said about him. Said even back when he was on the big ice, he struggled with processing the game at a high level, had wheels but that always worried him. That inability to process the game is what we heard held him back at the AHL making the jump. I think that's where the disconnect comes with him, some see he can skate, make a pass, play well in spurts, but it's his low IQ that forms the hesitation side. In tight games, without space and time, Lil makes idiotic plays and demonstrates no poise. As Bukala said he complicates simple plays, something I always noticed too. Anyways, he had the book on him and explains too why there has never been much interest in him around the league, that's the sentiment.

I listened to the segment live and to say that guy isn't the biggest Liljegren fan would be the biggest understatement ever.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Except, we know all 3 of those players are on the decline.

I have no expectations Benoir, Timmins, nor Myers are going to replace those players when they fall off the cliff, which is inevitable.

I would argue that Liljegren is on the decline as well at age 25.

 

[francis246]

[

Whatever he was this season wasn’t worth much but I’m not really seeing what made Sandin worth a 1st at the deadline and Liljegren worth scraps. The have the same career high in points, Liljegren did it twice and in less games, has the better frame, skating, defense, RHD. I don’t think it’s unrealistic to have gotten a late 1st or 2nd for Liljegren between now and last offseason, by all accounts a worse GM flipped a less valuable defenseman for more.

Sandin is more physical even though he’s smaller. The biggest difference is that teams wanted Sandin, probably had a ton of suitors. Lilly’s value around the league was much lower

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I'm going to call a spade a spade: Berube came in with fresh eyes, saw Liljegren for who he really is, and told Treliving "he's not going to see any ice time on my team. He probably should consider playing in the Swedish Elite League".

 

[Menzinger]

No disrespect intended towards Lily, but in retrospect we likely should have been much more skeptical of the fact he fell so far in the draft (based on pre-draft rankings) rather than just assuming it was a steal because he had mono.