Confirmed with Link: Leafs Trade: Liljegren to San Jose for Matt Benning, 3rd and 6th

[Punch Drunk Loov]

I've probably spelled Lilly's name correctly maximum one or two times

 

[ACC1224]

I've probably spelled Lilly's name correctly maximum one or two times

One or two more than me.

 

[Stephen]

Did you not notice that Tanev/OEL are old, Tanev keeps getting blasted with pucks, Hakanpaa is coming off a career-threatening injury and hasn't played, Benoit is struggling, Myers was horrific, and we still didn't bother to try Liljegren for more than 1 game? Did you not notice that we did not "completely erase all signs of Liljegren", but in fact kept him and overpaid him? Did you not notice the disappointing return after taking actions that damage trade value? I don't know why you're attempting to frame this as some sort of success.

How much more value do you think the Leafs would have created playing Liljegren a handful more games?

 

[Rare Jewel]

The idea of moving him for Hakanpaa, Myers, and even still Timmins is silly.

Particularly Hakanpaa, who is basically on one leg.

 

[Dekes For Days]

How much more value do you think the Leafs would have created playing Liljegren a handful more games?

Do you think permanently benching somebody you are trying to trade is beneficial to their trade value?

 

[Stephen]

Do you think permanently benching somebody you are trying to trade is beneficial to their trade value?

No, I don’t think another team would have ponied up significantly more like a 2nd for Liljegren had he played a few more games in October. We got our cap space and some draft capital and that’s fine by me.

To recap. Liljegren isn’t valued by anybody.

 

[Antropovsky]

Two coaches seemingly haven't been fans of him. Also, unsure how many assistant coaches who havent been fans. They also could be wrong, some players flourish ones goven more opportunity or given a clean slate.

Im okay with moving him.

 

[ULF_55]

Sharks fan here, came to read the thread to get the fans' assessment of Liljegren

For those asking about Benning, he was the worst player on the worst team in the league this year, for your sakes you should hope this is a pure cap move for picks and that he is waived immediately, he has been absolutely awful for his entire Sharks tenure and coming back from hip surgery he looks completely unplayable

He was never in Berube's good books from the very beginning.

Liljegren's had stretches where he was very good. Last year he had a good stretch when Rielly was out of the line-up and he was used more.

You'll probably wish he was more physical, but he'll play a smart game.

Leafs kept comparable defenders that aren't any better but Berube likes their game more.

 

[Dekes For Days]

No, I don’t think another team would have ponied up significantly more like a 2nd for Liljegren had he played a few more games in October.

I think most people understand that trade values aren't benefitted by overpaying or permanently benching a player. Also, if we were going to commit to him in the offseason, it would have been nice to actually see what we had under a new coach, especially with our other depth defensemen having their own struggles.

 

[ULF_55]

Have you not noticed the Leafs brought in OEL, Tanev for the top four, with Hakanpaa, Myers, Timmins on rotation for the third pair?

They changed the blueline, completely erased all signs of Liljegren, recovered a couple of draft picks. It’s a nothing housekeeping sequence for a non significant player. Not as tragic as you’re framing it. Not the first time they’ve moved off a player that wasn’t in their plans.

Yes, Leafs went all in on defenders they know are going to end their contracts poorly, but are veterans who bring something they need today.

Leafs aren't a team of the future.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Two coaches seemingly haven't been fans of him. Also, unsure how many assistant coaches who havent been fans. They also could be wrong, some players flourish ones goven more opportunity or given a clean slate.

Keefe played him in 61, 67 and 55 (likely would've been more due to injury) games in his years with him.

He couldn't have minded him too much.

 

[Antropovsky]

Keefe played him in 61, 67 and 55 (likely would've been more due to injury) games in his years with him.

He couldn't have minded him too much.

He routinely benched him in playoffs, no?

 

[ULF_55]

Two coaches seemingly haven't been fans of him. Also, unsure how many assistant coaches who havent been fans. They also could be wrong, some players flourish ones goven more opportunity or given a clean slate.

Im okay with moving him.

I think most are okay moving him.

The fact they got a couple picks and a salary dump waivable player is okay.

But it isn't like we should be surprised if he takes that next step outside of Toronto.

I'll be more surprised if he doesn't.

 

[Rare Jewel]

He routinely benched him in playoffs, no?

I mean, it's easier to sit younger guys. They tend not to get as pissed off. 2 gp of 7 in '22 ad 5gp of 11 in '23

But he played in 6 of the 7 games against Boston in the spring.

 

[Stephen]

I think most people understand that trade values aren't benefitted by overpaying or permanently benching a player. Also, if we were going to commit to him in the offseason, it would have been nice to actually see what we had under a new coach, especially with our other depth defensemen having their own struggles.

The idea that Lily could have thrived in Berube’s coaching environment had he been given a chance while simultaneously failing to make the actual team doesn’t really jive.

I don’t think his value changed after 10 games in the press box unless you want to go on record to say the Leafs left a 1st or a 2nd round pick on the table…

 

[ULF_55]

He routinely benched him in playoffs, no?

I think that is a superficial observation though.

He played all but 1 game against Boston, where Brodie came in for 1 game. Keefe immediately took Brodie out of the line-up and put Liljegren back in.

Other seasons he was still young, and Leafs usually pick up veteran defenders at the deadline. Previous year it was Schenn and McCabe, two veterans added.

If you review all the data, he was benched for players like GIordano, Muzzin, and Lyubushkin when had just turned 23.

 

[Dreakmur]

It sounds like you’re just trying to look for reasons to be upset at the Liljegren situation. From where I sit I don’t see a special player, we got our cap space back and the offseason UFAs OEL and Tanev have easily taken minutes that could have gone to Liljegren in a top 4 role. Who cares if we gave him $3 million? They protected against an even bigger arbitration award, kept his rights long enough to get back two random picks.

He is still upset that Dubas is gone, so he’ll always look for reasons to attack his replacement.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The idea that Lily could have thrived in Berube’s coaching environment had he been given a chance while simultaneously failing to make the actual team doesn’t really jive.
I don’t think his value changed after 10 games in the press box unless you want to go on record to say the Leafs left a 1st or a 2nd round pick on the table…

We don't know how he would have done, because he wasn't really given a chance. I don't know the exact extent that sitting him hurt his trade value, but I do know that overpaying and then permanently benching a player doesn't help it.

 

[ULF_55]

It sounds like you’re just trying to look for reasons to be upset at the Liljegren situation. From where I sit I don’t see a special player, we got our cap space back and the offseason UFAs OEL and Tanev have easily taken minutes that could have gone to Liljegren in a top 4 role. Who cares if we gave him $3 million? They protected against an even bigger arbitration award, kept his rights long enough to get back two random picks.

No he isn't a special player, but neither are Timmins, Benoir, Myers.

Berube just didn't like him, same way Keefe wouldn't use Timmins.

Timmins didn't become a better player over the summer, Berube just likes him more than Liljegren.

That's what matters. If the coach doesn't like the player you move the coach or the player. Berube isn't going anywhere for the next couple of years, so ...

 

[Ianturnedbull]

The idea of moving him for Hakanpaa, Myers, and even still Timmins is silly.

Particularly Hakanpaa, who is basically on one leg.

this is narrow. why do you think it's only about paying the blue-liners, or even accommodating them?

Did you think his ability is the reason he should stay and be a key part of the top 4?

 

[Stephen]

No he isn't a special player, but neither are Timmins, Benoir, Myers.

Berube just didn't like him, same way Keefe wouldn't use Timmins.

Timmins didn't become a better player over the summer, Berube just likes him more than Liljegren.

That's what matters. If the coach doesn't like the player you move the coach or the player. Berube isn't going anywhere for the next couple of years, so ...

Yeah that’s fair. I’d characterize them all as fairly disposable third pairing defensemen anyway.

 

[Stephen]

We don't know how he would have done, because he wasn't really given a chance. I don't know the exact extent that sitting him hurt his trade value, but I do know that overpaying and then permanently benching a player doesn't help it.

Moving Liljegren is about cap space which was largely recovered in this trade. This allows the team to activate some combination of Hakanpaa, Dewar, Jarnkrok later, so the sum of those additions enabled by the cap space and is part of the trade.

Pretty much everything the Leafs needed to do was accomplished.

 

[Kurtz]

No he isn't a special player, but neither are Timmins, Benoir, Myers.

Berube just didn't like him, same way Keefe wouldn't use Timmins.

Timmins didn't become a better player over the summer, Berube just likes him more than Liljegren.

That's what matters. If the coach doesn't like the player you move the coach or the player. Berube isn't going anywhere for the next couple of years, so ...

Cap-era NHL is all about value per cap dollar. Timmy might be marginally better than the guys you've mentioned, but on a per-dollar basis he's worse value than all of them, so makes all the sense in the world that he's out.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Moving Liljegren is about cap space which was largely recovered in this trade.

This should not have been a cap space move in the first place. That only became a factor when Treliving overpaid him in the offseason, and then failed to build a cap compliant team.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Did you think his ability is the reason he should stay and be a key part of the top 4?

Yes.