Confirmed with Link: Leafs sign D Simon Benoit (1 year, $775k) Re-signed ( 3 year, $1.35mm)

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This is pretty special, in a bad way.

We're a pretty good team this year but he's amongst the worst guys this year.

I would say he was likely a big beneficiary of playing with McCabe last year and without him being propped up, he looks like a #7 at best defenseman. This is similar to Muzzin carrying Holl.

Unfortunately because the cap situation is so precarious these days and every dollar counts, if he can't play 3rd pairing LD competently, you likely do need to look at moving on from him. Rifai makes 775k and that's probably as much as you'd want to pay for a guy as an extra/depth defenseman.
 


This is pretty special, in a bad way.

We're a pretty good team this year but he's amongst the worst guys this year.

I would say he was likely a big beneficiary of playing with McCabe last year and without him being propped up, he looks like a #7 at best defenseman. This is similar to Muzzin carrying Holl.

Unfortunately because the cap situation is so precarious these days and every dollar counts, if he can't play 3rd pairing LD competently, you likely do need to look at moving on from him. Rifai makes 775k and that's probably as much as you'd want to pay for a guy as an extra/depth defenseman.

Again this stat is misleading. xGF% is xGF compared to xGA. Joe's xGF is near worst on the team as expected, he's not a great offensive player and has the most defensive starts on the team.

Is he an amazing Defensemen? No, but he has a low salary, is near the top for shots blocked and hits for Leaf defenders. He's a #6 guy who provides physicality, something the Leaf D has needed for awhile.
 
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These stats do have value, but are next to useless without context and the people keeping track of them admit that. You posted a single stat xGF% and then declared benoit was a bad player.
That's not what I did. I don't know why you're misrepresenting things that are literally on the previous page. What I actually said was:

"Rough night for Benoit. 21.6 xGF%, and on for 2 goals against (one of which he put in himself) in just 13 minutes. Actually, this is the 5th game in a row that he's been below 35%. Might need to sit a game to reset."

So that's xGF%, GA, TOI, his xGF%s over the previous 5 games, and some context in just my first post alone; not to mention all of the additional data and context I looked at behind the scenes. My conclusion? That he's struggling and might need to sit for a game. *Gasp* And in fact, before any of that, I had applauded his play last year.

And then, when you started trashing valuable statistics that you didn't understand, I provided you a big deep dive into additional metrics and context for Benoit, and it all reinforced my position and statement. These stats have value, and both I and the people keeping track of them keep telling you that.
I suggest you read through the following link where they explain these stats, the shortcomings that affect them, like goaltending, linemates, sample sizes, etc.
I suggest you read through. It's nothing new to me. Most of it is what I've been explaining to you, and you seem to be drawing the wrong conclusions.
Also you keep saying the NHL provides the data, who are these people working for the NHL determining this data? Who is deciding a player took a wrist shout from the top of the circle and that was a scoring chance?
As I already explained, a lot of the data is automatic, as they have live puck and player tracking that records a ton of data. The shot from the top of the circle and details about it are recorded. That it was a wrist shot would be recorded by a team of off-ice officials, that do not deserve your baseless slander. The NHL doesn't categorize "scoring chances" themselves. That's just a categorization given by sites using the data, based on the historical chance of it being a goal.
Joe's xGF is near worst on the team as expected, he's not a great offensive player and has the most defensive starts on the team.
Benoit's xGA Is also the worst on the team, despite 3rd pairing secondary defensive deployment, and no, he does not have the most defensive starts on the team. Not even close.
He's a #6 guy who provides physicality, something the Leaf D has needed for awhile.
We've had a #6 guy who provided physicality pretty much every year. Ones better than Benoit.
 
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That's not what I did. I don't know why you're misrepresenting things that are literally on the previous page. What I actually said was:

"Rough night for Benoit. 21.6 xGF%, and on for 2 goals against (one of which he put in himself) in just 13 minutes. Actually, this is the 5th game in a row that he's been below 35%. Might need to sit a game to reset."

So that's xGF%, GA, TOI, his xGF%s over the previous 5 games, and some context in just my first post alone; not to mention all of the additional data and context I looked at behind the scenes. My conclusion? That he's struggling and might need to sit for a game. *Gasp* And in fact, before any of that, I had applauded his play last year.

And then, when you started trashing valuable statistics that you didn't understand, I provided you a big deep dive into additional metrics and context for Benoit, and it all reinforced my position and statement. These stats have value, and both I and the people keeping track of them keep telling you that.
You cited one advanced stat and then posted TOI and plus/minus for one game is which is essentially worthless Btw the goal you claim he put in himself was going in anyway and occured during a delayed penalty, something you left out, that's what context means it seems you have trouble understanding that term.

The fact you think these stats are so valuable, especially without including other factors and conditions tells me your knowledge of real world hockey is sadly lacking.

i wasn't trashing them, I said they required context and needed to account for other factors and conditions, then I posted a link that you ignored where the people compiling this data explained this.

I suggest you read through. It's nothing new to me. Most of it is what I've been explaining to you, and you seem to be drawing the wrong conclusions.
If you read through it, you'd realize you've been wrong this entire time.
As I already explained, a lot of the data is automatic, as they have live puck and player tracking that records a ton of data. The shot from the top of the circle and details about it are recorded. That it was a wrist shot would be recorded by a team of off-ice officials, that do not deserve your baseless slander. The NHL doesn't categorize "scoring chances" themselves. That's just a categorization given by sites using the data, based on the historical chance of it being a goal.
The data isn't recorded by off ice officials, it's done by a private firm based in Switzerland. The people recorded this data aren't even at the game. I knew this already which I why I repeatedly asked the question because I knew you had no idea what you were talking about. The data has value, when all external factors are considered, some guy watching a reply of the game recording data doesn't tell the whole story.
Benoit's xGA Is also the worst on the team, despite 3rd pairing secondary defensive deployment, and no, he does not have the most defensive starts on the team. Not even close.
Well yeah he's a #6 defenseman that's to be expected and again you need context, the two players right behind him are Marner and Matthews, see how that works? You're right about defensive starts he's third for defensemen.
We've had a #6 guy who provided physicality pretty much every year. Ones better than Benoit.
I see and how much money did they make or were about to make?
 
Blocked shots and hits are worthless stats in general but especially so if you're getting caved in on scoring chances in the process.
They are pretty important when you are killing a penalty. They are important when under severe pressure after an icing, or a goalie out situation. Do we want the top 5 shot blockers in the league? We don't... but we need people to do it when we need it.
 
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You cited one advanced stat and then posted TOI and plus/minus for one game is which is essentially worthless Btw the goal you claim he put in himself was going in anyway and occured during a delayed penalty, something you left out, that's what context means it seems you have trouble understanding that term.

The fact you think these stats are so valuable, especially without including other factors and conditions tells me your knowledge of real world hockey is sadly lacking.

i wasn't trashing them, I said they required context and needed to account for other factors and conditions, then I posted a link that you ignored where the people compiling this data explained this.
I cited multiple stats and context initially, and then went over a ton more stats and context with you in our discussion. Everything reinforced my initial conclusion. And today, we saw the coach give him the game off I suggested. Yes, the goal that Benoit put in his own net was 5v6. That doesn't change a whole lot.

The stats are objectively valuable, and I have never suggested using them in isolation or without context. Quite the opposite. Which is why I provided so much additional data and context. My knowledge of real world hockey is quite good, thanks.

You weren't trashing them? Your exact words were "laughable stat", "basically useless", "absolute waste of time", "a terrible way to measure someone's performance", etc., while ridiculing how they were compiled. Of course, you didn't actually know how they were compiled... The only one who ignored the quote was you. It disagreed with you, and was saying the same things as me.
If you read through it, you'd realize you've been wrong this entire time.
I did read through it. Did you? It says quite the opposite.
The data isn't recorded by off ice officials, it's done by a private firm based in Switzerland.
You seem to be mixed up. They work with private business partners for data and sports betting, but they are not the ones classifying shot types.
Well yeah he's a #6 defenseman that's to be expected and again you need context, the two players right behind him are Marner and Matthews, see how that works? You're right about defensive starts he's third for defensemen.
#6 defensemen don't need to get bad defensive results. The context doesn't help him. Matthews and Marner aren't right behind him. Not sure what you're looking at.
I see and how much money did they make or were about to make?
Different amounts. What relevance does that have to your false suggestion that we've been lacking this?I
Blocked shots prevent goals, so do hits if they're attributed properly.
Blocked shots and hits are tools that players can use to improve their results. But you still have to actually get good results. They are a means to an end.
 
I cited multiple stats and context initially, and then went over a ton more stats and context with you in our discussion. Everything reinforced my initial conclusion. And today, we saw the coach give him the game off I suggested. Yes, the goal that Benoit put in his own net was 5v6. That doesn't change a whole lot.

The stats are objectively valuable, and I have never suggested using them in isolation or without context. Quite the opposite. Which is why I provided so much additional data and context. My knowledge of real world hockey is quite good, thanks.
You've done no such thing, you cited one stat and provided next to zero context. TOI and plus/minus are terrible measures of performance. If you had any semblance of real world hockey knowledge you'd know that.
You weren't trashing them? Your exact words were "laughable stat", "basically useless", "absolute waste of time", "a terrible way to measure someone's performance", etc., while ridiculing how they were compiled. Of course, you didn't actually know how they were compiled... The only one who ignored the quote was you. It disagreed with you, and was saying the same things as me.
Yes the advanced stats you love so much are next to useless without considering other circumstances and conditions. The NHL isn't a video game.
I did read through it. Did you? It says quite the opposite.
Here we are again, with the 8 year old form of argument, I know you are what am I.
You seem to be mixed up. They work with private business partners for data and sports betting, but they are not the ones classifying shot types.
Really? Who is classifying shot types then? What other things are these imaginary off ice NHL officials doing? I'm sure everyone would love to know.
#6 defensemen don't need to get bad defensive results. The context doesn't help him. Matthews and Marner aren't right behind him. Not sure what you're looking at.

I'm looking at one of your beloved sites:
1737100240891.png

Different amounts. What relevance does that have to your false suggestion that we've been lacking this?I

Different amounts. Let's see were they higher or lower than what Benoit is making? This one should be easy for you, it's a yes or no answer.
Blocked shots and hits are tools that players can use to improve their results. But you still have to actually get good results. They are a means to an end.

Blocked shots and hits are things you do to help you win games which is why NHL coaches value them so much. Actually anyone who coaches at a high level values them.
 
You've done no such thing, you cited one stat and provided next to zero context.
Wrong again.

"Rough night for Benoit. 21.6 xGF%, and on for 2 goals against (one of which he put in himself) in just 13 minutes. Actually, this is the 5th game in a row that he's been below 35%. Might need to sit a game to reset."

"Having a poor xGF% is not an inevitability for a defensive defenseman, and while context is important (just as it is for any stat or subjective evaluation), there is no additional context or data that makes Benoit's results good. Both of our other defensive defensemen have a positive xGF%, and Benoit was positive last year. Yes, he gets more defensive usage (mostly because he's inept offensively), but he's getting secondary defensive usage behind both Tanev and McCabe. He's deployed as a bottom pairing defenseman against easier matchups. Even if we ignore half of the game and isolate only his defense (his supposed strength), it's still bad. He's been the worst on the team by a decent amount in pretty much every defensive metric, and his defensive results over the last 5 games are horrific."
TOI and plus/minus are terrible measures of performance
Nobody was measuring his performance by TOI and plus minus.
Who is classifying shot types then?
Talk about going around in circles. You ask this question. I answer this question. You suddenly claim to be an expert just playing games, disagree, and post a false answer. I correct you. And then you go back to asking the same question, and the cycle repeats.
I'm looking at one of your beloved sites:
View attachment 962577
You're on all situations. :facepalm: You don't know what you're doing.
Different amounts. Let's see were they higher or lower than what Benoit is making?
Actually, looking it over, I believe we paid all of them less than Benoit is currently making.
Blocked shots and hits are things you do to help you win games which is why NHL coaches value them so much.
Blocked shots and hits are are things that can help you win games if you use them to improve your results. The value comes from improving results.
 
Wrong again.

"Rough night for Benoit. 21.6 xGF%, and on for 2 goals against (one of which he put in himself) in just 13 minutes. Actually, this is the 5th game in a row that he's been below 35%. Might need to sit a game to reset."

"Having a poor xGF% is not an inevitability for a defensive defenseman, and while context is important (just as it is for any stat or subjective evaluation), there is no additional context or data that makes Benoit's results good. Both of our other defensive defensemen have a positive xGF%, and Benoit was positive last year. Yes, he gets more defensive usage (mostly because he's inept offensively), but he's getting secondary defensive usage behind both Tanev and McCabe. He's deployed as a bottom pairing defenseman against easier matchups. Even if we ignore half of the game and isolate only his defense (his supposed strength), it's still bad. He's been the worst on the team by a decent amount in pretty much every defensive metric, and his defensive results over the last 5 games are horrific."
LOL, now you're claiming you provide context then pull a quote without a citation and saying context doesn't matter. Comedy gold!

Nobody was measuring his performance by TOI and plus minus.
Sorry, you used GA and TOI

Talk about going around in circles. You ask this question. I answer this question. You suddenly claim to be an expert just playing games, disagree, and post a false answer. I correct you. And then you go back to asking the same question, and the cycle repeats.
Wow, you claimed some "off ice NHL officials" were recording this stat and then when I proved you wrong you post this cowardly response.
You're on all situations. :facepalm: You don't know what you're doing.
I see, show me which situations I should filter for Mr. hockey guru.
Actually, looking it over, I believe we paid all of them less than Benoit is currently making.
Coll, citations please.
Blocked shots and hits are are things that can help you win games if you use them to improve your results. The value comes from improving results.
Yes I'm sure we can all be unburdened by what has been.
 
LOL, now you're claiming you provide context then pull a quote without a citation and saying context doesn't matter.
You needed a citation for my quotes from earlier in the discussion? How did you get 'context doesn't matter' from a quote full of context that says "context is important"?
Sorry, you used GA and TOI
I used a lot more than that.
Wow, you claimed some "off ice NHL officials" were recording this stat and then when I proved you wrong you post this cowardly response.
You didn't prove anything wrong. You just started talking about something else
I see, show me which situations I should filter for Mr. hockey guru.
5v5.
Coll, citations please.
Easily searchable on puckpedia.
 
You needed a citation for my quotes from earlier in the discussion? How did you get 'context doesn't matter' from a quote full of context that says "context is important"?
Yet you still failed to provide a citation.
I used a lot more than that.
No you didn't
You didn't prove anything wrong. You just started talking about something else
Pot meet kettle x1000
Those were the parameters I used, show me different Kyle.
Easily searchable on puckpedia.
Cool, post them here.
 
The quotes are me, a page ago.
Quotes are not a citation. You don't seem to understand how this works.
I literally just showed you the quotes where I did.

I know you are but what am I!
You didn't use 5v5. You used all situations, which just means you don't know how to use the stat.
Oh the horror, my apologies, that should make a massive difference on a players worthl!
Your internet seems to work fine.
It does, it's your assertion though, yu need to back it up.
So does yours, yoy
 
Again this stat is misleading. xGF% is xGF compared to xGA. Joe's xGF is near worst on the team as expected, he's not a great offensive player and has the most defensive starts on the team.

Is he an amazing Defensemen? No, but he has a low salary, is near the top for shots blocked and hits for Leaf defenders. He's a #6 guy who provides physicality, something the Leaf D has needed for awhile.

Tanev 5v5 Dzone starts are 68.2%
McCabe 5v5 Dzone starts are 62.1%
Benoit 5v5 Dzone starts are 64.9%

So 2nd most Dzone starts, although I kind of wonder if Benoit crept up there a bit more when McCabe was out.

The thing is he's playing the minutes but getting killed in them, can't overlook how badly he's handling the minutes because he makes some hits/blocks, the whole idea is to "win" your minutes.
 
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