Post-Game Talk: Leafs Salvage A Point | Lose 6-5 in Shootout.

[Stephen]

Let’s be honest you’re going to criticize his words regardless of what he says.

I’m going to criticize him for his play individually and put a part of the dysfunction of the team on him because he’s the captain.

He doesn’t deserve any slack for failing to live up to expectations because he chose to manage his health a certain way, prioritized extra curricular tournaments and has awful quality control on his level of play.

He’s the highest paid player in the game. Is he even in the Top 25 this year?

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Let’s be honest you’re going to criticize his words regardless of what he says.

Deserved criticism. Regardless what injury he's dealing with, and it can't limit his ability to skate because he plays every penalty kill, he dogs it way too much. His post-game responses are way too blase for such an integral part of the team.

 

[Sypher04]

Deserved criticism. Regardless what injury he's dealing with, and it can't limit his ability to skate because he plays every penalty kill, he dogs it way too much. His post-game responses are way too blase for such an integral part of the team.

As captain, I don’t care what Matthews chooses to say to the media. The only thing that actually matters is what he says to the team which we are not privy to.

 

[Sypher04]

I’m going to criticize him for his play individually and put a part of the dysfunction of the team on him because he’s the captain.

He doesn’t deserve any slack for failing to live up to expectations because he chose to manage his health a certain way, prioritized extra curricular tournaments and has awful quality control on his level of play.

He’s the highest paid player in the game. Is he even in the Top 25 this year?

You’ve lost the plot when you are nitpicking him saying I vs We. It doesn’t matter. And he’s not at all wrong to say we. He was far from the only one what he said would apply to.

As for the rest of what you said which has nothing to do with what we were talking about, the best choice for the team is being made between him, management and medical staff. They have obviously weighted the pros/cons of sitting him or having surgery. Without the info it’s hard to judge whether they are doing right or not

And despite all the challenges, and no nobody thinks Matthews is performing to what we want or need of him, but he’s still 11th in the league in points per game for the entire season.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

The sooner we move on from this era of players the better. These guys are losers.

 

[ToneDog]

And then was lights out in the playoffs. It's almost as if players are as tired of the length of the regular season as the rest of us. But everyone keeps telling me that Florida is not on cruise control. Those guys know the limited value of late-season regular games better than anyone else. I doubt they care where they finish in the division.

All should be doing their best to avoid each other in round #1 IMO. That means winning the division. All 3 teams say they want to win it. No idea if any of the 3 mean it when they lose to teams they have lost to in the past week or two.

 

[Ports]

It’s been an organizational blind spot to be sure since the end of the Sundin era. Difficult to find those types and even tougher to retain them. Who do we have that fits the mold? Knies is close, McMann has the size and skill but he doesn’t have much snarl to him. Domi is greasy but he doesn’t play with much physicality, but he at least has a competitive attitude and brings some level of push back. Laughton is supposed to fit this mold but he’s never been a high scorer, gotta hope his level of competitiveness continues to increase and reaches its maximum come playoff time.

After that it’s not much. We know who the Core Four are. Robertson is small, inconsistent, and untrustworthy. Jarnkrok is still playing catch-up and while I’d say he’s gritty he doesn’t fit this mold either. Everyone else up front is a fourth liner.

Leafs need to do better at identifying and either developing or acquiring these types at forward. Unfortunately we traded a potential one in Grebenkin away for one who is supposed to fit this niche right now in Laughton. At least Cowan is still in the organization for now.

At least our defence has some real warriors on it now.

Dubas / Shanahan didn’t believe they needed those type of players in today’s NHL and four skilled players could overcome that. Marchment, Hyman, Kadri, Verhaeghe were all traded or allowed to walk and their early drafts over emphasized skill over size and speed with under sized forwards and dmen who will likely never play in the NHL. Trading Grebenkin and a first for Laughton doesn’t look good today and two years from now will look even worse.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Knies is also hard to deal with it and is very good at winning netfront position.
He's good at retrieving loose pucks which is definitely not a strong point with our core.
He's been a very nice compliment to that #1 PP unit.

Ya he's got a bit of prime JVR net front presence in him. But maybe even a bit more involved physically. Overall the composition of the 5 forward group just seems to be the right mix.

I think Justin Bourne said it as well in the first intermission, its not like we are leaving Phil Kessel at the point either. We are leaving one of the best penalty killing forwards in the NHL. Mitch is very good at reading counter attacks and I'm not gunna lie, I'd rather watch him defend a 2 on 1 short handed chance against over Mo at this point lol. Ya the shorty last night was ugly, but it had nothing to do with Mitch being at the point. It was all because of a high risk cross seam dish by Willy followed by a poor back check by AM34. Both of which would have happened regardless of whoever is manning the point.

Marner's ability to walk the blue laterally and to draw PK'ers up high is something we haven't seen in years past. Not to mention, he makes high level plays with a high rate of efficiency when under duress.

We just need to have a combined PK/PP % of 100% or greater

If you look at the most recent cup winners combined PK/PP% in the post season in comparison to ours it goes as follows:

2023-24 Post Season:
Toronto: 69.5%
Florida: 106.5%

2022-23 Post Season: (finally won a round)
Toronto: 98.3%
Las Vegas: 93.6%

2021-22 Post Season: 14.3%
Toronto: 93.1%
Colorado: 113%

2020-21 Post Season: 13%
Toronto: 97.2%
Tampa Bay: 116.5%

2019-20 Post Season: 15.4%
Toronto: 115% ----------skewed a bit because it was only 5 game play in where we didn't allow a PP goal
Tampa Bay: 108.7%

Point being, there is usually a direct correlation to playoff success and special teams. There's not a lot of time and space 5v5, so you really need to take advantage of the opportunities you get on the PP all while limiting those very chances on the kill. Very rarely do you see a sub 100% combined PK/PP team win it all. Ironically, I think Berube's STL team that won the cup might have had the worst recorded PK/PP% in recent history lol

 

[Sypher04]

69.5% lol. God that’s awful

 

[weems]

Ya he's got a bit of prime JVR net front presence in him. But maybe even a bit more involved physically. Overall the composition of the 5 forward group just seems to be the right mix.

I think Justin Bourne said it as well in the first intermission, its not like we are leaving Phil Kessel at the point either. We are leaving one of the best penalty killing forwards in the NHL. Mitch is very good at reading counter attacks and I'm not gunna lie, I'd rather watch him defend a 2 on 1 short handed chance against over Mo at this point lol. Ya the shorty last night was ugly, but it had nothing to do with Mitch being at the point. It was all because of a high risk cross seam dish by Willy followed by a poor back check by AM34. Both of which would have happened regardless of whoever is manning the point.

Marner's ability to walk the blue laterally and to draw PK'ers up high is something we haven't seen in years past. Not to mention, he makes high level plays with a high rate of efficiency when under duress.

We just need to have a combined PK/PP % of 100% or greater

If you look at the most recent cup winners combined PK/PP% in the post season in comparison to ours it goes as follows:

2023-24 Post Season:
Toronto: 69.5%
Florida: 106.5%

2022-23 Post Season: (finally won a round)
Toronto: 98.3%
Las Vegas: 93.6%

2021-22 Post Season: 14.3%
Toronto: 93.1%
Colorado: 113%

2020-21 Post Season: 13%
Toronto: 97.2%
Tampa Bay: 116.5%

2019-20 Post Season: 15.4%
Toronto: 115% ----------skewed a bit because it was only 5 game play in where we didn't allow a PP goal
Tampa Bay: 108.7%

Point being, there is usually a direct correlation to playoff success and special teams. There's not a lot of time and space 5v5, so you really need to take advantage of the opportunities your get on the PP all while limiting those very chances on the kill. Very rarely do you see a sub 100% combined PK/PP team win it all. Ironically, I think Berube's STL team that won the cup might have had the worst recorded PK/PP% in recent history lol

Our powerplay has been a huge issue in the playoffs.
I could possibly understand having a poor to average PK due to personel or questionable goaltending but theres just zero excuse for this group of players to ever get shutdown on the PP. Makes me think something, either the playstyle or setup was extremely easy to scout and eventually exploit.

 

[horner]

Glad Laughton got the monkey of his back

 

[ACC1224]

Hard to know, but I don’t think Timmins would have been traded if they felt he was better than Myers?

Sounds like we gave them Timmins for peanuts, so not exactly a scenario that show high potential that Timmins would contribute.

Anyone know what we actually got for Timmins from Pittsburgh?

Thought he went as a bit of a sweetener for them to take Dewar to help clear some cap.

 

[rumman]

You guys make conclusions after each single game. See how it plays out.

what other conclusions are we to talk about in a post game thread? Seem about as relevant as you can get imo..............

 

[rumman]

Hard to know, but I don’t think Timmins would have been traded if they felt he was better than Myers?

Sounds like we gave them Timmins for peanuts, so not exactly a scenario that show high potential that Timmins would contribute.

Anyone know what we actually got for Timmins from Pittsburgh?

Timmins played in the Soo, Myers didn't no chance Myers was a consideration in that trade. Boy Wonder sticks to Soo alumni if at all possible..........

 

[rumman]

these guys are who they are, they never close the deal

 

[rumman]

Having Carlo in the loop, Liljegren would have been much better suited at 3RHD and paired with OEL, but $3 million is a lot to pay your 3RHD.

I think there are better options, for less and more potential for development than Liljegren, who never seemed to win the trust of anyone behind the bench, to fill our 3RHD needs.

yeah, until the puck goes into the corner...............

 

[rumman]

I think his fallen off has come at the price of trying to get Beniot to be a better player and get him ready for the playoffs.

The sample size is big enough with OEL playing his off side, that he's a not good on it. But with Beniot in the lineup instead of Myers, he's forced to be on his offside and his play suffers because of it.

might be part of it, but OEL looked good on his off wing early so I equate it to being tired, it's a long season and he's no spring chicken..........

 

[Stephen]

You’ve lost the plot when you are nitpicking him saying I vs We. It doesn’t matter. And he’s not at all wrong to say we. He was far from the only one what he said would apply to.

As for the rest of what you said which has nothing to do with what we were talking about, the best choice for the team is being made between him, management and medical staff. They have obviously weighted the pros/cons of sitting him or having surgery. Without the info it’s hard to judge whether they are doing right or not

And despite all the challenges, and no nobody thinks Matthews is performing to what we want or need of him, but he’s still 11th in the league in points per game for the entire season.

It’s not a nitpick of his words, it’s a general critique that he’s extremely business as usual about the team and is unable to provide a steady example of leadership with his play. What he actually says to the team doesn’t matter to me at all, it’s that his actions doesn’t demonstrate consistent leadership.

And that circled back to the original critique. He is not fully accountable to his own quality control.

 

[Stephen]

Our powerplay has been a huge issue in the playoffs.
I could possibly understand having a poor to average PK due to personel or questionable goaltending but theres just zero excuse for this group of players to ever get shutdown on the PP. Makes me think something, either the playstyle or setup was extremely easy to scout and eventually exploit.

I’d love to get some telemetry on this one but it feels like they each hold the puck too long on the PP. If I were running it I’d be interested in seeing puck touches, time on stick on each player on a successful PP vs unsuccessful, passed completed, length of pass. TLDR. It’s not successful when they each statically hold the puck and make short area passes that doesn’t challenge the PK.

 

[Divine]

I thankfully didn't stay up for the game but predictably a Woll cry fest in here. Highlights Woll was not good esp that own goal wtf was that but... uh... the defense? Several goals Woll had to choose between a short side shot or a guy left along in the slot and both were goals.

Not to mention how many shots they gave up to the Sharks. Trying to blame it all on Woll is laughable

Even Bérubé called out Woll. Basically every shot was a scoring chance.. and he made 0 saves in the shootout.

No team can guarantee 0 shots on the goalie. He has to be able to make the easy saves and Woll isn’t able to.



This is about as direct as Bérubé is going to be calling out his goalie. He can’t say the goalie cost us the game, although he did.

You score 5 goals against the lowest scoring and last place team in the NHL and you should win.. unless you have Joseph Woll in net giving up weak goals on routine shots.

 

[Gallagbi]

As captain, I don’t care what Matthews chooses to say to the media. The only thing that actually matters is what he says to the team which we are not privy to.

I dont even care what he says, I care more about the impact of it

 

[AvroArrow]

The sooner we move on from this era of players the better. These guys are losers.

Ovechkin was a loser until 2018 too right, can't win shit, regular season guy that chokes in the playoffs, couldn't beat Crosby or the Rangers

Everyones a loser until they aren't. Hell Matthew Tkachuk might've been the biggest playoff choker in his Calgary days, now ? Back to back finals and a cup.

You're only a loser until you aren't. It's frustrating sure, but these guys are not "losers" Matthews IMO is the greatest goal scorer of his generation with legitimate upside to be a top 3 goal scorer of all time when it's all said and done.

I have faith in Matthews and Nylander and oddly this year Marner too because of his commitment to a physical game. Maybe we win this year, maybe we don't, but as long as we have Matthews + Nylander and possibly Marner, we will be contenders.

People need to understand it's a tough league, 32 teams, there's gonna be 31 losers every year. If this team delivers even 1 cup over the next 7-8 years, it'll all still be worth it. Hopefully we don't have to wait that long, but it took Ovechkin 13 years to get his, it took Mackinnon 9 years to get his.

Matthews is in year 9 now, maybe it'll happen this year and maybe it won't. But success isn't linear, he's an elite talent that has a chance to win it all every year.

 

[Stephen]

Even Bérubé called out Woll. Basically every shot was a scoring chance.. and he made 0 saves in the shootout.

No team can guarantee 0 shots on the goalie. He has to be able to make the easy saves and Woll isn’t able to.



This is about as direct as Bérubé is going to be calling out his goalie. He can’t say the goalie cost us the game, although he did.

You score 5 goals against the lowest scoring and last place team in the NHL and you should win.. unless you have Joseph Woll in net giving up weak goals on routine shots.

Woll has had a lot of problems focusing on his starts since January. His preparation isn’t where it needs to be.

 

[Divine]

Woll has had a lot of problems focusing on his starts since January. His preparation isn’t where it needs to be.

He seems to be too emotional to be a goalie, similar to Campbell. It doesn’t help the Leafs are trying to coddle him.

Woll got pulled for the first time in his NHL career against Vegas and he literally starting crying on the bench. It seems the team now doesn’t want to pull him and upset him out of fear of the effects it’ll have on him which may affect future performance.

A goalie has to be able to brush off bad starts, not cry over them.

 

[Stephen]

He seems to be too emotional to be a goalie, similar to Campbell. It doesn’t help the Leafs are trying to coddle him.

Woll got pulled for the first time in his NHL career against Vegas and he literally starting crying on the bench. It seems the team now doesn’t want to pull him and upset him out of fear of the effects it’ll have on him which may affect future performance.

A goalie has to be able to brush off bad starts, not cry over them.

If he’s secretly just Ilya Samsonov and Jack Campbell in disguise the team will have to quietly move off him. One event snowballing into a multi week tailspin cannot happen.