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Leafs ranked 20th. by Hockey's Future (Not the Kessel Trade)

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MajorityRules said:
If it were a true read on prospects, both lists would be very close to identical. They aren't. Hard to take it as much more than a guess.
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The lists use different criteria when assessing prospect pools . THN includes NHL players 21 and under while HF doesn't . Also are people using this years THN rankings or last years because i don't think this years THN future watch issue is out yet .
 
ULF_55 said:
No different than the draft, there are no guarantees in the draft. None, as the future is unknown, a 1st. over all could just quit hockey, get run over by a bus, go play in Europe, or just plain suck against men.

Seems the best prospects make the NHL sooner, but then even that doesn't mean someone who takes longer won't be better.

I'd think NHL teams wouldn't hire a scout who didn't know how to scout, but they don't predict the future.
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I agree with everything you've said.

I'm not saying the rankings are right or wrong, I just don't take them as gospel. There are just too many variables and unknowns.
 
MajorityRules said:
If it were a true read on prospects, both lists would be very close to identical. They aren't. Hard to take it as much more than a guess.
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Its the best us fans have right now. I mean anyone is free to scout and watch every prospect that belongs to an NHL club but its pretty difficult to do so while you are correct it is a guess, its an educated guess.

In all likeliness its more reliable than just looking at player stats to draw conclusions.
 
20th ???

NOPE. NU UH. I WON'T BELIEVE IT. WHATS THAT? PRO SCOUTS SAID IT? THEY DONT' KNOW JACK. AND ANYONE THAT EVEN ACKNOWLEDGES THEM ARE IDIOTS. HERES MY LIST OF THE BEST PROSPECT POOLS: AND ITS THE ONLY LIST THAT COUNTS...

1. Toronto
2. Toronto
3. Toronto

/Thread




How do you have a rational discussion with someone like this? Its shocking, the level of ignorance some posters display in here.
 
hotpaws said:
LOL at all the whining and spinning about why our prospect ranking is so low . Why would people think they'd be higher when we have only one or maybe two higher quality prospects .
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I guess some ppl notice that we dont have any draft picks on our squad and expect some sort of progress to be made in our prospect pool....considering the Leafs have been one of the worst teams for a long long time.

Myself... I think Burkes a ****ing idiot. **** team as evidenced by the results, and below average prospects in the eyes of scouts. Assuming the prospects really are that bad....wow....i mean thats a pretty hard thing to do as a professional manager.... simultaneously sucking in both departments.
 
DaveT83 said:
20th ???

NOPE. NU UH. I WON'T BELIEVE IT. WHATS THAT? PRO SCOUTS SAID IT? THEY DONT' KNOW JACK. AND ANYONE THAT EVEN ACKNOWLEDGES THEM ARE IDIOTS. HERES MY LIST OF THE BEST PROSPECT POOLS: AND ITS THE ONLY LIST THAT COUNTS...

1. Toronto
2. Toronto
3. Toronto

/Thread




How do you have a rational discussion with someone like this? Its shocking, the level of ignorance some posters display in here.
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lol

Just the other day, I had a few people insist they can look into the future.

True story.
 
Bomber0104 said:
I guess some ppl notice that we dont have any draft picks on our squad and expect some sort of progress to be made in our prospect pool....considering the Leafs have been one of the worst teams for a long long time.

Myself... I think Burkes a ****ing idiot. **** team as evidenced by the results, and below average prospects in the eyes of scouts. Assuming the prospects really are that bad....wow....i mean thats a pretty hard thing to do as a professional manager.... simultaneously sucking in both departments.
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The problem is people ignore that Burke hasn't traded for mutilple extra picks like most bottom feeders do . Combine this with the he picks he traded for Kessel and this is why we're rated where we are .

Also some fans are looking for anything to defend Burke or maybe the reality that after 7 seasons of failure this team is no closer to competing is to horrible a reality to accept .
 
hotpaws said:
The problem is people ignore that Burke hasn't traded for mutilple extra picks like most bottom feeders do . Combine this with the he picks he traded for Kessel and this is why we're rated where we are .

Also some fans are looking for anything to defend Burke or maybe the reality that after 7 seasons of failure this team is no closer to competing is to horrible a reality to accept .
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Well I think he did get some picks for Kris Versteeg but I guess that was after he traded JFJ's Stalberg. But yeah...hes put little importance in improving through the draft evidently.

Some fans are just wired a little differently here. Defence mechanisms or something....block out the painful truth...pass off fiction as reality....act like a child....you name it. Can't really expect everyone to be rational. Meh.
 
DaveT83 said:
20th ???

NOPE. NU UH. I WON'T BELIEVE IT. WHATS THAT? PRO SCOUTS SAID IT? THEY DONT' KNOW JACK. AND ANYONE THAT EVEN ACKNOWLEDGES THEM ARE IDIOTS. HERES MY LIST OF THE BEST PROSPECT POOLS: AND ITS THE ONLY LIST THAT COUNTS...

1. Toronto
2. Toronto
3. Toronto

/Thread




How do you have a rational discussion with someone like this? Its shocking, the level of ignorance some posters display in here.
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Why don't you tell us considering no one has even come close to saying that(except for you of course).
 
Bomber0104 said:
Well I think he did get some picks for Kris Versteeg but I guess that was after he traded JFJ's Stalberg. But yeah...hes put little importance in improving through the draft evidently.

Some fans are just wired a little differently here. Defence mechanisms or something....block out the painful truth...pass off fiction as reality....act like a child....you name it. Can't really expect everyone to be rational. Meh.
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So he trades 2 1sts, a 2nd and some lower round picks, but at the same time has probably acuired the same # of picks in the same rounds, but he hasn't put importance in the draft? He's actually done a lot in the draft. Not only has he drafted plenty of Dmen that look like quality prospects(before you or anyone else decides to throw another tantrum I said prospects, didn't say how they'd turn out as players) and he has drafted big bodied forwards that actually use their size to their advantage, you know, the thing we've been sorely lacking the past couple of years.

So yes, Burke has put a lot of "importance" in the draft.
 
achtungbaby said:
Do you really believe one list is 'right' and the other is 'wrong'? How do you compare teams prospects without using resources like THN or hockey's future? If the Leafs were number one on either list would you be taking a dump all over it and arguing with everyone that these don't matter, or would you be constantly bragging about it?
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You may want to ask the question in reverse while you are at it, given some of the posters most currently enamoured with the ranking are the same ones who refused to discuss it when they were top 10.
 
eyeball11 said:
Do you have any idea how professional hockey scouts are hired? Do you think they pass a test that shows they have better assessment capabilities than others? My brother in law is an NHL scout. I can assure you that most people who hold roles as scouts, GMs, coaches etc. get their opportunities based on who they know, not what their abilities are. If you really wanted to get an idea of what stock to put in the list you are referring to, look at each scout's track record. The mere fact of being a professional scout means very little.
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Brian Burke is the poster boy for the old boys club.
 
its my opinion that the leafs have fallen in Hf rankings due to the lack of top end forward prospects, a couple of years ago kadri was considered here but he is probably at most a 2nd line guy now therefore despite the leafs depth and talent in terms of defense as well as the depth of big physical bottom 6 prospects(which fills a need for the leafs) the overall prospect pool isnt as strong as others
Burke has acquired the top end forwards through trade instead of draft( kessel, lupul, JVR) and therefore they are not included in our prospect ranking. IMO if we are able to draft a top end forward prospect this draft our pre-season ranking will be much higher probably top 10
 
eyeball11 said:
You may want to ask the question in reverse while you are at it, given some of the posters most currently enamoured with the ranking are the same ones who refused to discuss it when they were top 10.
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I just read through that thread and I didn't see a big debate over the validity of the rankings.

I also just read through a Montreal thread where they were ranked 28th. Instead of complaining about the rankings, they took the much more rational approach and complained about their GM.

leaf fans are just special I guess...
 
Hey, Charliolemieux...

what do you think is a better benchmark to compare our prospects to the rest of the league than a list created by professional nhl scouts?
 
hotpaws said:
LOL at all the whining and spinning about why our prospect ranking is so low . Why would people think they'd be higher when we have only one or maybe two higher quality prospects .
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I don't care where the Leafs are ranked. But the rankings are obviously flawed.
 
DaveT83 said:
20th ???

NOPE. NU UH. I WON'T BELIEVE IT. WHATS THAT? PRO SCOUTS SAID IT? THEY DONT' KNOW JACK. AND ANYONE THAT EVEN ACKNOWLEDGES THEM ARE IDIOTS. HERES MY LIST OF THE BEST PROSPECT POOLS: AND ITS THE ONLY LIST THAT COUNTS...

1. Toronto
2. Toronto
3. Toronto

/Thread
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Too bad that is not the argument.
 
charliolemieux said:
IF I have to pick... THN.
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So you can't think of even ONE better way to assess our prospects.
Got it.

In other words, according to you, there is no other way in the world to better assess our prospects than a rankings list created by professional nhl scouts.

Yet... you still don't accept a rankings list created by professional nhl scouts.

Strange.
Strange indeed.
 
Disgruntled Observer said:
So you can't think of even ONE better way to assess our prospects.
Got it.

In other words, according to you, there is no other way in the world to better assess our prospects than a rankings list created by professional nhl scouts.

Yet... you still don't accept a rankings list created by professional nhl scouts.

Strange.
Strange indeed.
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It's not the THN rankings I have an issue with.

How you got that idea is strange. Strange indeed.
 
After reading through most of the posts, I have a general observation. The issue here in my opinion is that BOTH lists have the Leafs ranked in the bottom third of the league while icing an NHL team that hasn't made the playoffs in quite some time. These strawmen being created, focusing on where OTHER teams are positioned is nothing but a smokescreen and doesn't do any favours to fans who should be demanding more from their team. An average team with average prospects doesn't bode well for the future...
 
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