Leafs not drafting well ?

[HamiltonNHL]

Toronto Maple Leafs Draft History at hockeydb.com

Our drafting seems bad overall.

Tyler Biggs ?

Is there a systematic way to rank GMs based on how well they draft ? to enable comparisons ?

Click to read more...

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Which years were Dubas and which were Lou ?

 

[ottomaddox]

Which years were Dubas and which were Lou ?

It's hard to say? It's so cloudy. How much or how little Kyle's involvement was when Lou was here is debatable.

 

[WTFMAN99]

It's hard to say? It's so cloudy. How much or how little Kyle's involvement was when Lou was here is debatable.

Dubas had some say in the Marner draft in terms of moving up/down

After that, it was Hunter's drafts under Lou

Dubas was GM full time for drafts 2018 and after.

 

[ACC1224]

 

[Mess]

Which years were Dubas and which were Lou ?

It was actually Mark Hunter Director of Amateur scouting and his scouting team that would have the greatest impact on the entry draft end results results during that time.

A GM doesn't have the time to tour the country and sit in cold junior arenas to scout players for the draft and often are only mainly familiar with those players taken in the 1st few rounds because they show up in tournaments on TV etc and or you would make themselves familar with the top 50 or so when attending scouting meetings to get reports from your staff.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Traded Rask.
Missed Varlamov.

Marchand went 73rd

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Drafting small guys like Robertson and Sandin will limit team performance .. but even worse we did not draft FAST guys .. we drafted small men with SKILL .. not small men with SPEED .. Dubie fails to understand da importance of SPEED in playoff hockey .. we need to draft guys first and foremost who have SPEED .. then SIZE .. and then SKILL .. Dubie as a non player just does not get it .. da Leafs have too many skilled players who lack speed and size

 

[HamiltonNHL]

SPEED .. then SIZE .. and then SKILL ..

You need a SHOT in playoff hockey.

Nylander is an example of that. He can finish. Marner can't.

And you need a D with a slapper on the Power Play.

Bye Morgan

 

[AvroArrow]

We've been drafting fine recently. Matthews was a no brainer, Sandin is young but looks promising. Dermott is a decent NHLer. Marner...great regular season yet to show up in the playoffs. Nylander was a great pick, Rielly was a good pick. Amirov is too early but looks good, Robertson was a steal, Connor Brown was a fantastic pick, Kadri was great as well. We've been hitting with the 1st round pretty well. The later rounds haven't been the best.

I guess beyond the first round has sucked. In the last decade only Dermott, Robertson, Brown.

Also very curious, how much of that should be attributed to drafting vs development ? A lot of responsibility lands on the trainers and coaches for how a player turns out.

 

[ottomaddox]

You need a SHOT in playoff hockey.

Nylander is an example of that. He can finish. Marner can't.

And you need a D with a slapper on the Power Play.

Bye Morgan

I disagree. I've seen cup winners that didn't have those qualities. There only 1 Shea Weber in the league.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I disagree. I've seen cup winners that didn't have those qualities. There only 1 Shea Weber in the league.

Seabrook could unload and Letang not too bad either .. and Hedman pretty good too .. sure Weber has a bomb but every Cup team has a damn good shooter on da point .. we are da exception

 

[WTFMAN99]

Seabrook could unload and Letang not too bad either .. and Hedman pretty good too .. sure Weber has a bomb but every Cup team has a damn good shooter on da point .. we are da exception

Keith was underrated, not the zip of Shea Weber but hard enough and accurate as hell.

 

[ottomaddox]

Seabrook could unload and Letang not too bad either .. and Hedman pretty good too .. sure Weber has a bomb but every Cup team has a damn good shooter on da point .. we are da exception

If only we were a cup team...

Pit didn't have Letang (injury) when they won their 2nd cup. I believe when CAR won their cup they didn't have a Bomb shooting 1D.

 

[Apex Predator]

We've been drafting fine recently. Matthews was a no brainer, Sandin is young but looks promising. Dermott is a decent NHLer. Marner...great regular season yet to show up in the playoffs. Nylander was a great pick, Rielly was a good pick. Amirov is too early but looks good, Robertson was a steal, Connor Brown was a fantastic pick, Kadri was great as well. We've been hitting with the 1st round pretty well. The later rounds haven't been the best.

I guess beyond the first round has sucked. In the last decade only Dermott, Robertson, Brown.

Also very curious, how much of that should be attributed to drafting vs development ? A lot of responsibility lands on the trainers and coaches for how a player turns out.

I’ve always wondered that too. We’ve seen players leave the system and become useful players so how much is the blame on development?

 

[Byron Bitz]

For a long time Dave Morrison was running our draft. I think 2014 was his last one

 

[JT AM da real deal]

If only we were a cup team...

Pit didn't have Letang (injury) when they won their 2nd cup. I believe when CAR won their cup they didn't have a Bomb shooting 1D.

Yes there are always exceptions .. but you don't build on exceptions .. and we have a guy in Muzzy who has a 95 mile per hour shot which is fine we just don't utilize da skill set in our limp PP

 

[ShaneFalco]

Is "da" an abbreviation for district attorney?

 

[Amadeus]

For a long time Dave Morrison was running our draft. I think 2014 was his last one

He picked some nice talent in the later rounds though -- Connor Brown and Carter Verhaeghe were both picked under his guidance.

Since Dubas has taken over though, I haven't seen a single player he has drafted that has made any type of impact yet, especially any player taken outside of Round 1 but in fairness, I don't think I've seen any player drafted outside Round 1 from 2018 onwards be very impactful for any team yet.

I've seen tons of European forwards drafted under Kyle's leadership though - Fins to be exact.

 

[Bluelines]

I disagree. I've seen cup winners that didn't have those qualities. There only 1 Shea Weber in the league.

I agree with you, if you can't get the puck through traffic from the point, how hard or fast the puck is going is immaterial. Sandin's slapper is probably as bad or worse than Riellys but he can get the puck to the net. He will be our #1PP QB one day because of this.

I think a heavy shot is the desired element we want our modern players to have.

 

[AvroArrow]

I’ve always wondered that too. We’ve seen players leave the system and become useful players so how much is the blame on development?

And you look at some of the great "drafting" teams, and they somehow always hit. I think the development team deserves more credit or blame, than they're given. I don't think the old Red Wings were just great scouts, they had a great staff working with the players. Same with Tampa. If they KNEW Point was this good, they wouldn't pass on him twice in the same draft. Same can be said for Boston. They got Bergeron/Marchand late, and I genuinely feel like if they knew they would end up this good they would've easily drafted them in the 1st round, maybe even traded up to grab them.

I think it's probably a 50/50 split, scouting + development.

 

[gamer1035]

Our drafting or development team is trash. I don't fully blame the gm's. We are the richest team in the league. We should have the best drafting and the best development, regardless of whoever the gm is. Fire them all and rebuild the draft and development teams with the best in the business.

Obviously dubas and shanny are too dumb to do that, and haven't done that the entire time they've been here. We need to fire them and hire someone to gut the franchise properly.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Drafting small guys like Robertson and Sandin will limit team performance .. but even worse we did not draft FAST guys .. we drafted small men with SKILL .. not small men with SPEED .. Dubie fails to understand da importance of SPEED in playoff hockey .. we need to draft guys first and foremost who have SPEED .. then SIZE .. and then SKILL .. Dubie as a non player just does not get it .. da Leafs have too many skilled players who lack speed and size

The problem with them drafting for speed is that Keefe's system negates it. He preaches the stupid turn back all the time and most players are just doing loops in the neutral zone waiting...so that kills any speed you might have. As an added bonus...the guys that are doodling around in the neutral zone are not good puck retrievers on dump ins (which ends up happening 70% if the time) because ....they are smaller than average. So in reality, we have the worst of both worlds.

 

[rocketman588]

He picked some nice talent in the later rounds though -- Connor Brown and Carter Verhaeghe were both picked under his guidance.

Since Dubas has taken over though, I haven't seen a single player he has drafted that has made any type of impact yet, especially any player taken outside of Round 1 but in fairness, I don't think I've seen any player drafted outside Round 1 from 2018 onwards be very impactful for any team yet.

I've seen tons of European forwards drafted under Kyle's leadership though - Fins to be exact.

Romanov
Akil Thomas
Hoglander on a quick look

Depends on your definition of impact I guess

 

[rocketman588]

The problem with them drafting for speed is that Keefe's system negates it. He preaches the stupid turn back all the time and most players are just doing loops in the neutral zone waiting...so that kills any speed you might have. As an added bonus...the guys that are doodling around in the neutral zone are not good puck retrievers on dump ins (which ends up happening 70% if the time) because ....they are smaller than average. So in reality, we have the worst of both worlds.

That's the system Dubas wants though