Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose to Stars, 4-1

[leafs in five]

These guys aren’t actually and chasing on every single zone entry attempt so I wouldn’t use that as an excuse as to why they aren’t playing like their usual Mario Lemieux selves.

Dump and chase just means you’re entering the zone with speed and forcing the D to retreat, which then sets up an odd man puck battle. The excuses just tells me these guys can’t be arsed to engage in a foot race or have to recover a puck.

Alternatively, they can go back to playing their Red Army imitation hockey, but they still stink it up. There’s no more excuses. These guys are just low effort and low compete players. It’s not like that hasn’t been established over 9 years of these guys.

obviously people will disagree on Marner but like, Rielly, Tavares, these are low effort low compete players? you think that is a proven fact?

 

[JL17]

friend, I don't think a 4th line determines a team's success or the absence of it. no one thinks that. which is why having the most expensive 4th line in the league is a bad thing.

Look at all the Cup winning teams. The bottom 6 have all had 3rd or 4th lines that have identities and the coach has zero issue with them playing 10-12 mins a night and can be left out against the other teams top guys.

 

[leafs in five]

Look at all the Cup winning teams. The bottom 6 have all had 3rd or 4th lines that have identities and the coach has zero issue with them playing 10-12 mins a night and can be left out against the other teams top guys.

I don't doubt it, and I'm not going to look it up, but I have to assume that most of these were composed of guys making close to league minimum who were either developed in house or smart signings/trades/reclamation projects. Treliving has made like, a 4th line with an identity a key part of his method here and spent accordingly. I think it's been a bit of a disaster personally but also the 4th line played well v Boston last year

 

[JL17]

I don't doubt it, and I'm not going to look it up, but I have to assume that most of these were composed of guys making close to league minimum who were either developed in house or smart signings/trades/reclamation projects. Treliving has made like, a 4th line with an identity a key part of his method here and spent accordingly. I think it's been a bit of a disaster personally but also the 4th line played well v Boston last year

The way I look at the playoffs both teams top 6s should cancel each other out. It’s who has the more complete bottom 6 that wins in the playoffs. I hate seeing a team load up like Florida did with Giroux a couple years ago. Add depth players. Unfortunately this team top 6 have an identity that doesn’t allow a good bottom 6 to form because there’s not enough money to go around. There’s reason why past trades players and signings don’t resign in Toronto and it’s the top 6.

 

[BraveCanadian]

All in or all out.

Re-arranged the d-chairs, but still on the same Titanic.

Maybe Treliving was being honest saying how hard it is to get a center better than Matthews and Tavares because he's looking for one to be the guy?

If Matthews isn’t the guy at over 13 million a year it is time to blow it up and start over. Including management.

 

[leafs in five]

The way I look at the playoffs both teams top 6s should cancel each other out. It’s who has the more complete bottom 6 that wins in the playoffs. I hate seeing a team load up like Florida did with Giroux a couple years ago. Add depth players. Unfortunately this team top 6 have an identity that doesn’t allow a good bottom 6 to form because there’s not enough money to go around. There’s reason why past trades players and signings don’t resign in Toronto and it’s the top 6.

but there would be more money to go around if the GM didn't shell out so much for character bottom 6/4th line guys. anyway

 

[BrannigansLaw]

These guys need to stop being such p***yes and call themselves out for the turds they keep laying.

They have been garbage for a long time now and yet they still feel the need to tell themselves how much they like their game. Sports psychology/safe space nonsense be damned; just own up to it and SHOW that it means something next game.

 

[ToneDog]

If Matthews isn’t the guy at over 13 million a year it is time to blow it up and start over. Including management.

To determine that, that would require intelligence and balls. Something lacking at the cashbox. Plus, Matty's jersey is a best seller. Hell I have two.

 

[darrylsittler27]

The Berube effect is starting to wear off. We were winning on hot g and great d. This team is built so that 3 or 4 guys score all the goals. If they don't they can't win. If Tre isn't panicking, he better be.

 

[Beneven Stanciano]

There shouldn’t be value judgement on dump and chase. It’s just a tool to move the puck into the offensive zone quickly and force the D to retreat.

This is logical. It's crazy how much these guys are paid but can only play hockey a certain way. Why they paid so much then? For WHAT actually?

 

[PROUD PAPA]

They were playing well until the soft goal that Woll let in that tied the game, that seemed to take all the energy out of the team. It looks like the next couple of games aren't going to be easy either, the Devils are one of the best teams in the league and although Montreal has sucked most of the year they seem to be on a hot streak.

Give up after the first sign of adversity. Like a secretary making a typo early in their shift and packing it in for the rest of the day.

 

[Hallonbroder]

Offense is trash
Goaltending is trash

Team is absolute trash.

All when to trash when Matthews returned. Coincidentally? No. Team plays way better and different without him. Marner is a legit star without him. He’s shit with him.

Here here! They’re garbage with Matthews, muff cabbage! Get rid of him and make Marner the captain. And give him 20 m/y

 

[ToneDog]

This is logical. It's crazy how much these guys are paid but can only play hockey a certain way. Why they paid so much then? For WHAT actually?

Willie is paid for his good looks. Maty for his goal scoring prowess and Mitch for his elite playmaking and Selke winning defense. Unfortunately they turn into pumpkins in late April.

 

[3blizzard4]

Oh thank God dark mode is back!

 

[ToneDog]

Oh thank God dark mode is back!

Of course. The Leafs lost last night.

 

[Leafs98]

Maybe I dont pay attention to the systems enough or they blend but was the first 10 minutes the Berube system or possession. Whatever it was, it looked good. Dallas barely entered the zone. Score should have been 2 -0.

 

[Stephen]

This is logical. It's crazy how much these guys are paid but can only play hockey a certain way. Why they paid so much then? For WHAT actually?

Yeah, I just don’t get the excuse. Dump and chase means one guy throws the puck in the corner and initiates a foot race. The forechecking guy beside him converges on the D and they try to get the puck back. Or it goes to the opposite side and the other two go after it.

So complaining about dump and chase just tells me you don’t want to skate fast for a 1 on 1 battle or a 2 on 1 battle. And you don’t want to be physically involved once you’re in the corner or end wall. On the Matthews Knies Marner line you have 2x guys who are at least 6’3”.

All this stylistic talk just sounds like fans making excuses that these guys don’t want to 1) initiate a foot race 2) compete for a loose puck.

 

[Leafs98]

Yeah, I just don’t get the excuse. Dump and chase means one guy throws the puck in the corner and initiates a foot race. The forechecking guy beside him converges on the D and they try to get the puck back. Or it goes to the opposite side and the other two go after it.

So complaining about dump and chase just tells me you don’t want to skate fast for a 1 on 1 battle or a 2 on 1 battle. And you don’t want to be physically involved once you’re in the corner or end wall. On the Matthews Knies Marner line you have 2x guys who are at least 6’3”.

All this stylistic talk just sounds like fans making excuses that these guys don’t want to 1) initiate a foot race 2) compete for a loose puck.

Yeah but no one enters a zone like Nylander. Not a good style for him.

 

[Stephen]

Yeah but no one enters a zone like Nylander. Not a good style for him.

He still carries it in and does whatever suits the flow of the game. It’s not like he’s dumping it in on a breakaway and can’t generate offense.

 

[rumman]

me I would absolutely love to switch out our gold plated 4th line for something like Blackwell/Blumel/Bäck at a combined hit of less than what Kampf is due for 2 more years after this one

Complaining about the fourth line is like focusing on your phone bill all while ignoring your mortgage imo……..

Will be interesting if the slump goes to 4, 5 games, plus. Then more bad play after the odd win. Never seen that in regular season in this era. Just bad 2-4-2 starts etc. Failed playoffs are painful but quick. These last few months could be a slow death to the era.

Death by a thousand cuts……..

 

[rumman]

If Matthews isn’t the guy at over 13 million a year it is time to blow it up and start over. Including management.

Never happen, that would affect jersey sales in a negative way……..

 

[Leafs98]

JT did splits during pp practice (Tanev). Pulled groin ? Wonder where this will lead too. Will post in injury thread

 

[indigobuffalo]

This team, or any for that matter, doesn't need 4 11mil + players. It doesn't need 3. No team needs an 11 mil 2nd line centre. No team needs an 11 mil 2nd line winger. Everything else is completely irrelevant until that gets sorted out. Which it won't. So we'll keep doing what we do until they retire.

Vegas has entered the chat.

 

[verdi]

Like I said, the Leafs can't beat good teams recently. Been saying the same thing since December.

 

[Da Mash]

Matthews, Marner, Tavares - they're the leader core here bro. The team goes as they go, they set the tone and the pace, and they make shit loads of money too.

Where possibly are we ever gonna get if just keep safeguarding them from criticism and keep poking at secondary players? These same secondary players are the ones who'll get more points in the playoffs than our core.

Rielly's been ass for awhile and that contract was a mistake, no doubt about that though.

Im not safe guarding anyone. They deserve criticism but so does Rielly as he is also a supposed leader and many wanted him captain and we spent most of his career looking for a suitable partner and we are finally realizing maybe Rielly is the issue.
But lets make no mistake....others have to step up. And this Berube system isnt like its player friendly to the likes of our core. Our bottom six still sucks most nights.

The team is struggling scoring goals and thats been a issue for years in the playoffs. I dont see much changing as we made our D tougher defensively but worse offensively. Rumours saying we want old man Klingsberg here? Oh my......I hope the leafs dont continue to waste resources on old washed up players like we have in the past.

The good news is were a bit past the halfway mark and we can make changes and improve.