Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose to Stars, 4-1

[67leafs]

We have to be the softest team in the league……

 

[leafsfan5]

Matthews, Marner and Nylander aren’t playing hard north south dump and chase hockey and that’s making them unsuccessful offensively. They just look like they’re in shut down playoff mode where they’re discouraged, disinterested and just willing to take the L with little to no push back. No ones stopping them from running the other team out of the building with their offensive brilliance.

This doesn't sound ideal though, to be honest. Why do we want to get William Nylander playing hard dump and chase hockey? How is this going to work? You're paying 11.5 for a Lamborghini and trying to use it like a Ford F150

They had their abilities optimized to their abilities their entire careers so far and no results. How many times do you just keep repeating the same thing over and over again? They are skilled players who should be able to thrive under any kind of system if their hockey IQ is as high as everyone claims it to be.

McDavid and Mac are 2 of the fastest skaters in the league which is why I said you could beat those traps with speed which our core just doesn't have. McDavid probably the best player ever and Mac is a beast that will run anyone over if they get in his way. That is why those players don't have to dump it in all the time, but they still do from time to time. McDavid also has Hyman to retrieve the puck for him if he dumps it in and Mac will get it himself if he has to.

They can keep trying to mix up the lines but it won't change. 2nd coach now that refuses to split up Matthews, Marner and Nylander on their own lines. If they aren't gonna try doing that then idk why they decided to sign all of them to extensions and repeat the same crap for almost a decade now.

These are guys making 11 million plus each. Guys like McDavid plays with 2 guys making around the same combined as Marner and Nylander. Hell, Draisatl plays with 2 guys making like 5 mil combined. Mac plays with 2 guys making a combined 7 mil. The excuses for our core are just made up at this point. They've been given everything. They got the money, they got the coach that optimized their abilities in Keefe and then they got extensions for even more money and plenty of sponsorships to give them even more money. Nothing seems to work with this core but they sell tickets so we're stuck with it and just gotta pray we get lucky like that Capitals team that won the cup.

I disagree with the idea that they've been optimized their entire careers. I think people developed their opinion on Dubas' style from his first season and used it to shape his entire tenure in terms of roster construction

In terms of the Capitals comparison, I actually think it's pretty on point, except that we're in our Dale Hunter era where we are trying something that just doesn't make sense given the team we have. Remember when prime Ovechkin scored only 32 goals and 65 points because Hunter was trying to turn him into a grinder?

Core 4 criticism is understandable and more than reasonable. However, we're stuck with them and I don't think attempting to turn them into the type of players they aren't is a good idea

 

[leafs in five]

Meh, they haven’t played well in quite some time, stellar goaltending and a weak schedule was masking a lot of deficiencies. It’s still a playoff team no doubt.

The East is wide open, so maybe this year is bizarro world and they play better in the playoffs

yeah basically where I am at. Benoit is not a regular season top-6 dman but when the rules change he might be ok again? as he was in last year's playoffs. who knows. I didn't ask to be born

 

[leafsfan5]

I went directly to the last page of this thread and I've seen enough hot takes already.

You could see the slump and losing skid coming from a miles away. Team was finding a way to win games, but not playing to a level where winning would be sustainable.

Team right now can't get any offence going, everything is a struggle. There's no energy to their game, and PP/PK are slipping.

There's never a perfect season, anyone that thinks teams don't go through stuff like this haven't watched enough hockey.

I'd agree if this was like a 5 game stretch or something like that, but we've been slumping for over 20 games now (over 25% of the season)

It's more than fair to begin having serious doubts about this team's game. The days of us dominating high danger chances like we did in October/November are long gone

 

[Leafs98]

Will be interesting if the slump goes to 4, 5 games, plus. Then more bad play after the odd win. Never seen that in regular season in this era. Just bad 2-4-2 starts etc. Failed playoffs are painful but quick. These last few months could be a slow death to the era.

 

[leafs in five]

If we can get that down to 3mil, the extra 2 mil should solve our PP woes, and get Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares to give a f***.

yeah yeah just gotta try harder but also it doesn't matter how hard they try the cap is so obviously distorted to a point that makes success impossible

 

[CabanaBoy5]

It's obvious the damage Kyle has done to this team. And it's irreparable during the Matthews era. People have pointed this out for years.

The only ones denying this are the ones who have an agenda.

In fairness, I'm glad Kyle tried to go "all in" at the deadline, he just wasn't very good at it (Foligno, Boyle, etc).

 

[leafs in five]

I watched the Carolina broadcast last week instead of the Leafs one and all they talked about was these north-south Leafs versus previous years' east-west, I cannot believe the popularity of this framing of the Craig Berube Maple Leafs

 

[CabanaBoy5]

I think back to the Montreal series when he was getting rag-dolled and laughing instead of retaliating. There is just not a lot of pushback and self-respect. I wonder what it says that he is now the captain. Certainly is not an emotional leader who drags players into the fight.

Maybe he's afraid he'll get injured if gets more physical. Then again, he gets injured anyways. He might as well punch a guy in the head and deal with the consequences. Lucky we have Reaves as a deterrent to players like Benn giving Matthews cheap shots after the whistle.

 

[Leafs98]

Why did they lose? I don't watch the games. Waste of time

5 on 5 was even
Specialty teams was the difference
The start was good
They are a good team

 

[ToneDog]

In fairness, I'm glad Kyle tried to go "all in" at the deadline, he just wasn't very good at it (Foligno, Boyle, etc).

Boyle and Pleks were on Lou. It was too early in the rebuild for Lou to go all in.

 

[All Mod Cons]

yeah yeah just gotta try harder but also it doesn't matter how hard they try the cap is so obviously distorted to a point that makes success impossible

Exactly. Complaining about the 4th line. Or bottom pairing dmen. Or backup goalie. Or 3rd line centre etc. is all irrelevant.

It's like asking someone at Shoppers to be better on the checkout while Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos just f*** around.

 

[leafs in five]

It's like asking someone at Shoppers to be better on the checkout while Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos just f*** around.

right I know exactly what this means, perfect analogy

 

[All Mod Cons]

Boyle and Pleks were on Lou. It was too early in the rebuild for Lou to go all in.

Is Boyle and Pleks in different seasons for 2nd round picks really going all in?

 

[leafs in five]

listen our top guys are overpaid by a combined 3-4m per, and it's condemned us to perpetual failure, so quit complaining about our 4th line that makes 2.5m more than Dallas' 4th line, because that kind of money makes no difference anyway.

 

[All Mod Cons]

listen our top guys are overpaid by a combined 3-4m per, and it's condemned us to perpetual failure, so quit complaining about our 4th line that makes 2.5m more than Dallas' 4th line, because that kind of money makes no difference anyway.

Or we could be the first team in history to win the Cup being driven by our 4th line, while the 53 million dollar PP refuse to score.

That'd be so Leafs

 

[leafs in five]

Or we could be the first team in history to win the Cup being driven by our 4th line, while the 53 million dollar PP refuse to score.

That'd be so Leafs

friend, I don't think a 4th line determines a team's success or the absence of it. no one thinks that. which is why having the most expensive 4th line in the league is a bad thing.

 

[darrylsittler27]

So, another first round exit. It's a joke.

 

[leafs in five]

And yet somehow we can afford a 4C that makes more than anyone in Florida’s bottom-6 last year. No problems affording a 3.5mil 3C with 3 goals that doesn’t know where the D zone is.

Domi's got 55 shots on goal this year. a no-dimensional player.

 

[Nineteen67]

Will be interesting if the slump goes to 4, 5 games, plus. Then more bad play after the odd win. Never seen that in regular season in this era. Just bad 2-4-2 starts etc. Failed playoffs are painful but quick. These last few months could be a slow death to the era.

It’s really been all month. Even though they beat Boston, the Islanders and Philly they were slogging around. They’re due to lose one or two where they outplay the opposition and then settle back into a routine.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

I went directly to the last page of this thread and I've seen enough hot takes already.

You could see the slump and losing skid coming from a miles away. Team was finding a way to win games, but not playing to a level where winning would be sustainable.

Team right now can't get any offence going, everything is a struggle. There's no energy to their game, and PP/PK are slipping.

There's never a perfect season, anyone that thinks teams don't go through stuff like this haven't watched enough hockey.

 

[Fogelhund]

You can always tell how the team is doing, by who is posting in the threads.

 

[ToneDog]

Is Boyle and Pleks in different seasons for 2nd round picks really going all in?

Not a chance. As I said, it was too early for Lou to go all in.

 

[Stephen]

This doesn't sound ideal though, to be honest. Why do we want to get William Nylander playing hard dump and chase hockey? How is this going to work? You're paying 11.5 for a Lamborghini and trying to use it like a Ford F150

I disagree with the idea that they've been optimized their entire careers. I think people developed their opinion on Dubas' style from his first season and used it to shape his entire tenure in terms of roster construction

In terms of the Capitals comparison, I actually think it's pretty on point, except that we're in our Dale Hunter era where we are trying something that just doesn't make sense given the team we have. Remember when prime Ovechkin scored only 32 goals and 65 points because Hunter was trying to turn him into a grinder?

Core 4 criticism is understandable and more than reasonable. However, we're stuck with them and I don't think attempting to turn them into the type of players they aren't is a good idea

These guys aren’t actually and chasing on every single zone entry attempt so I wouldn’t use that as an excuse as to why they aren’t playing like their usual Mario Lemieux selves.

Dump and chase just means you’re entering the zone with speed and forcing the D to retreat, which then sets up an odd man puck battle. The excuses just tells me these guys can’t be arsed to engage in a foot race or have to recover a puck.

Alternatively, they can go back to playing their Red Army imitation hockey, but they still stink it up. There’s no more excuses. These guys are just low effort and low compete players. It’s not like that hasn’t been established over 9 years of these guys.

 

[Torontonian]

I'd agree if this was like a 5 game stretch or something like that, but we've been slumping for over 20 games now (over 25% of the season)

It's more than fair to begin having serious doubts about this team's game. The days of us dominating high danger chances like we did in October/November are long gone

It's fine to have doubts, but some of the takes are classic HFboards. People are talking right now as if they are a team with 44 points and struggling to stay afloat in the playoff race. They are literately a win away from being 4th in the entire league. They are doing something right.

I'm starting to think when it comes to the system, this is just how they are going to look playstyle. Not as high danger chances, because they want to get the puck in deep, go to work and regain the puck. This is how Berube wants them to play in the playoffs. I don't agree with it with the personal that we have, but it is what it is.

The more glaring issues right now for me have been lack of energy, and obviously the powerplay. I think the Marner/Matthews has gotten stale. That's a change that could benefit the entire team.