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Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose to Minnesota and end January with a whimper

Suntouchable13 said:
Pelley and Shanahan are 2 arrogant assholes who think fans will just keep gobbling up their shit product. They think there’s nothing wrong. The arena is dead because people are tired of this.
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This is why a complete tear down wouldn’t be the end of the world for the franchise.

Shanahan has staked his job on the core getting it done and if they can’t perform again this year then it’s ok to blow it up. They’ve shown spurts here and there in the past 8 1/2 years but have never been consistently great.
 
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IPS said:
Wait until his skating really starts to go. It was a massive, massive mistake signing this guy long term.
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He’d be easy enough to move in the off-season, if needed. They could even retain salary on him and a couple of others.
 
Divine said:
I don't get how anyone can watch this season and come to the conclusion that we have to re-sign Marner.

This team is clearly flawed. Two of our core 3 are already signed to multi-year extensions. The only changes you can realistically make at this point is getting rid of Marner and/or Tavares.

The problem with this team is they've done nothing and now don't want to do the nuclear option (getting rid of Marner) because they've tried nothing. Maybe the core 4 could have worked if we assembled some better defence and goaltending around them, but it's too late to find out. Re-signing Marner at this point will likely guarantee this is the core until they all retire. Tavares can stay at the right price as his cap hit should be significantly reduced and we have zero centre depth. Marner can stay too if he's willing to take a discount to his current cap hit - but he won't.
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When you get past the most active posters on this board who are actively members of the Marner PR crew, most posters here actually want legitimate change and are sick of the complexion of this team is honestly what I've seen.

Nobody is watching this team the last 2 months and honestly thinks they're gonna do anything in the playoffs, same old song and dance just with even less depth and an alarmingly declining Rielly. You can't keep feeding this fanbase shit sandwiches and expect them them to eat it.

I'm very pro Berube but let's face it, he really hasn't done anything with the team that Keefe couldn't do.
 
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Nineteen67 said:
Although we’ve been saying it for the past 5 years, but this has to be the last chance for this core. They really have nothing to lose by going all in and certainly wouldn’t worry about being bottom feeder which wouldn’t be the end of the world.
If it doesn’t work, they start a complete rebuild and use the assets they have to acquire high picks and young talent.
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10 years of being a doormat, laughing stock is not good, just my opinion. If you think the critism is bad now, wait until the 8os level leafs team shows up
 
I'm starting to wonder if the issue with the team is Matthews. Take a look at how they played in his absence.
45-24-2 without him over the years. They worked hard, and had a decent PP.

In the 36 games he's played this year, we've scored 16 goals on the PP.
In the 15 games he didn't play, we scored 10. That's a remarkable difference, for missing the best shot in the NHL.

They just don't work as hard when he's there, seem to rely on him too much... or maybe his presence takes the compete out of them. He's incredibly talented, best shot in the NHL right now... when he's on... and when he's on, he's a dominant player..but it just seems like he lacks the motivation to be that player often enough.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong.
 
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Confucius said:
10 years of being a doormat, laughing stock is not good, just my opinion. If you think the critism is bad now, wait until the 8os level leafs team shows up
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It wouldn’t take 10 yrs. Retain some of Matthews’ contract and what is the haul? Nylander’s contract is too long so I wouldnt retain any of his.
 
Nineteen67 said:
It wouldn’t take 10 yrs. Retain some of Matthews’ contract and what is the haul? Nylander’s contract is too long so I wouldnt retain any of his.
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Sure it would, look at our record before Mathew’s. Having nothing but old players and no prospects or picks. Dismal future worse than an expansion team.
 
rumman said:
His “defending” on yhat first hoal was pathetic
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Sucks he lost a puck battle, but it happens, and at least he was engaging with his man in the right spot. The real issue is that no other Leaf was covering anybody or supporting. We had 3 people standing around in front of the net, and Nylander up cherry picking.
 
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Fogelhund said:
I'm starting to wonder if the issue with the team is Matthews. Take a look at how they played in his absence.
45-24-2 without him over the years. They worked hard, and had a decent PP.

In the 36 games he's played this year, we've scored 16 goals on the PP.
In the 15 games he didn't play, we scored 10. That's a remarkable difference, for missing the best shot in the NHL.

They just don't work as hard when he's there, seem to rely on him too much... or maybe his presence takes the compete out of them. He's incredibly talented, best shot in the NHL right now... when he's on... and when he's on, he's a dominant player..but it just seems like he lacks the motivation to be that player often enough.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong.
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Having Matthews in your lineup shouldn’t be a problem, but maybe the expectations we had for him were not realistic. Really good player but he hasn’t shown he’s the driver of the bus, like Crosby or McDavid have, like we hoped.

The good thing is they get at least one more chance to prove themselves.
 
Confucius said:
Sure it would, look at our record before Mathew’s. Having nothing but old players and no prospects or picks. Dismal future worse than an expansion team.
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They’d start acquiring assets and picks this summer.

What would Matthews, Knies, Nylander, Rielly, Tanev, McCabe, Stolarz bring in?
 
Looking at some advanced stats at 5-on-5,
  • High Danger Chances For % (HDCF%) was 58.82% in favour of the Leafs.
  • Corsi For % (CF%) was 62.86% in favour of the Leafs.
  • Every skater on the Leafs had a CF% greater than 50%.
  • Relative Corsi For % (CF% Rel. - impact player has while they are on the ice) is probably the most interesting: McCabe, Robertson, Rielly, Minten, Domi, Holmberg and Marner were all negative. The highest positive CF% Rel. were Tanev, OEL and Lorentz by a significant margin.
  • The highest SF% (Shots For %) was Pacioretty at 30.54 who was miles ahead of the next best group of Nylander (18.88), Kampf (18.48) and Tanev (18.18). The worst was McCabe and Rielly at negative 25.49 and 21.67 respectively.

References:
HDCF% - Percentage of total High Danger Scoring Chances while that combination of players is on the ice that are for the selected team. HDCF*100/(HDCF+HDCA)

CF% - Percentage of total Corsi while that combination of players is on the ice that are for the selected team. CF*100/(CF+CA)
Rel - Difference between the team's stat with that combination of players on the ice and the team's stat with that combination of players off the ice. On Ice Stat-Off Ice Stat​
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SF% - Percentage of total Shots while that combination of players is on the ice that are for the selected team. SF*100/(SF+SA)
 
wingman75 said:
Looking at some advanced stats at 5-on-5,
  • High Danger Chances For % (HDCF%) was 58.82% in favour of the Leafs.
  • Corsi For % (CF%) was 62.86% in favour of the Leafs.
  • Every skater on the Leafs had a CF% greater than 50%.
  • Relative Corsi For % (CF% Rel. - impact player has while they are on the ice) is probably the most interesting: McCabe, Robertson, Rielly, Minten, Domi, Holmberg and Marner were all negative. The highest positive CF% Rel. were Tanev, OEL and Lorentz by a significant margin.
  • The highest SF% (Shots For %) was Pacioretty at 30.54 who was miles ahead of the next best group of Nylander (18.88), Kampf (18.48) and Tanev (18.18). The worst was McCabe and Rielly at negative 25.49 and 21.67 respectively.

References:
HDCF% - Percentage of total High Danger Scoring Chances while that combination of players is on the ice that are for the selected team. HDCF*100/(HDCF+HDCA)

CF% - Percentage of total Corsi while that combination of players is on the ice that are for the selected team. CF*100/(CF+CA)
Rel - Difference between the team's stat with that combination of players on the ice and the team's stat with that combination of players off the ice. On Ice Stat-Off Ice Stat​
​
SF% - Percentage of total Shots while that combination of players is on the ice that are for the selected team. SF*100/(SF+SA)
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Don't think any of these are needed to bolster the fact they played a very limp and uninspired game.
 
PromisedLand said:
can we just FIRE Shanahan already. What an epic LOSER this jackass has been
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Pelley, Shanahan, Treliving, Berube, and ALL the assistant coaches, should be fired and replaced with untrained monkeys.

This Leafs team, and especially the OVERPAID core players, will play their game no matter whom the coaches or management are.

Despite being paid handsomely, these core Leaf players are more interested in polishing their golf clubs than giving an honest effort on the ice EVERY SINGLE GAME.

I'm now resigned to NEVER seeing another Leaf Stanley Cup championship. It is likely that this FAILED rebuild will require another rebuild shortly. At 69, I don't see me surviving another 8-10 year rebuild. The Shanaplan has been a HUGE failure IMHO.

Go ahead Shanahan, run it back by re-signing Marner to another STUPID, STUPID, STUPID, overpay !!!
 
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Nineteen67 said:
They’d start acquiring assets and picks this summer.

What would Matthews, Knies, Nylander, Rielly, Tanev, McCabe, Stolarz bring in?
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Can’t trade William, Mathew’s or Rielly for that matter. They won’t wave, don’t treat them as a given you can just trade them. knies I wouldn’t trade but yeah if we start holding on to our picks and prospects we can avoid being a doormat. The bottom feeder scenario is only valid if we keep trading picks which can be long term cheap assets, for short term expensive help.
 
Confucius said:
Can’t trade William, Mathew’s or Rielly for that matter. They won’t wave, don’t treat them as a given you can just trade them. knies I wouldn’t trade but yeah if we start holding on to our picks and prospects we can avoid being a doormat. The bottom feeder scenario is only valid if we keep trading picks which can be long term cheap assets, for short term expensive help.
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I wouldn’t have that boorish kindergarten attitude and would manage and negotiate like an adult. If the players acted like children then it would take a long time, but I doubt that would be the case.

What prevents them from being traded? Not the CBA or their contracts?
 
IPS said:
Don't think any of these are needed to bolster the fact they played a very limp and uninspired game.
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I fully agree they did. Others felt they played well. I was seeking advanced stats to maybe help me understand what they saw. It did not help... it does point out certain players performances though.

I will hold steady that Marner was trash. This team cannot win when he is anything less than average.

5-on-5 they were fine. Special teams were crap. We all saw that.
 
The Management said:
They looked like they were sleepwalking last night. Goalscoring has been this group's achilles heel in the postseason every year, and I'm not sure I see much indication that is about to change.
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Between all the gala events and outdoor practices and fun side show events it’s like they don’t have time to actually play hockey.
 
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