Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose in Game 7. Again.

[BackPassChampions]

When is the Dubas presser?

It has been very quiet.... no?

 

[Dreakmur]

When is the Dubas presser?

It has been very quiet.... no?

They pushed locker clean out to Tuesday. I would assume they wanted to take a few extra days to make some internal decisions and get on the same page.

 

[BackPassChampions]

They pushed locker clean out to Tuesday. I would assume they wanted to take a few extra days to make some internal decisions and get on the same page.

Smells like something is going on....

 

[rumman]

Smells like something is going on....

I think what your smelling is the same s**t, different day?

 

[thusk]

It can be done. You can trade firsts for guys like Goodrow and Coleman to give you 2 years on nothing deals.

Just gotta be smart with it and not trade those picks for washed up ufas like Foligno.

Those kind of player should be available and get chemistry in your team... more easy to say than do.

Tampa tried the same thing with hagel... with everything they give up, hagel didn't really had a higher impact of mikheyev, engval, kerfoot or kampf... so its not because you try it than you will be reward automaticly!!!

 

[cannucky]

Heres a thought
If they didn't lose due to lack of effort then they must have lost to lack of overall team talent , those are the only two reasons for losing , either they didn't try hard enough or they just aren't good enough , pick one they both mean the same thing after 5 failed attempts that I count , It's insanity that trying the same thing over and over is going to yield a different result .






REPLY

 

[cannucky]

To be clear. Tampa is a potential dynasty. Not Toronto. If Tampa wins 3 in a row that is a dynasty by definition.

Actually that is a Trilogy by definition , a Dynasty would be more like the Habs winning 6 in the same decade including 4 in a row in the 70's or the Oilers winning 5 in the eighties . People are far to quick to anoint people and teams with these bombastic titles they have yet to actually earn . Imagine calling a first time Rocket winner the GOAT then actually looking at what Gretzky and Lemieux did in their careers LMFAO .

 

[HellasLEAF]

To be clear. Tampa is a potential dynasty. Not Toronto. If Tampa wins 3 in a row that is a dynasty by definition.

Actually that is a Trilogy by definition , a Dynasty would be more like the Habs winning 6 in the same decade including 4 in a row in the 70's or the Oilers winning 5 in the eighties . People are far to quick to anoint people and teams with these bombastic titles they have yet to actually earn . Imagine calling a first time Rocket winner the GOAT then actually looking at what Gretzky and Lemieux did in their careers LMFAO .

3 is a dynasty especially in today's NHL. Trilogy I think you are referring to Lord of the Rings.

 

[cannucky]

3 is a dynasty especially in today's NHL. Trilogy I think you are referring to Lord of the Rings.

3 years is not a dynasty but ok you keep telling yourself it is lol

 

[HellasLEAF]

Heres a thought
If they didn't lose due to lack of effort then they must have lost to lack of overall team talent , those are the only two reasons for losing , either they didn't try hard enough or they just aren't good enough , pick one they both mean the same thing after 5 failed attempts that I count , It's insanity that trying the same thing over and over is going to yield a different result .






REPLY

Those aren't the only 2 reasons for losing and why can't it be a combination of things.

3 years is not a dynasty but ok you keep telling yourself it is lol

I won't quibble with you over it but if you think 3 straight Stanley Cups is not a dynasty then what is it?

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Easy answer, it is 100% guaranteed

Enjoy your infraction.

 

[hamzarocks]

Absolutely gutted by the result. This team deserved better. The players deserved better.

To be fair, TB played great as well. This was just a prize fight that we unfortunately came out on the wrong end of. Again.

Very proud of this team for the effort they showed all playoffs. You can tell this team has changed. Changes will come, but I think we have a good foundation. I am also proud of the fans who stayed in the arena on Saturday to salute the players at the end of the game. It's fair to be upset with the result, but these guys gave it their all and it was nice to see them get the ovation they deserved.

The future is still very bright

There is no future. It's now or never. 2 years and then 3 of the big 4 get fatter raises if they stick around

Need to accomplish something next year or the year after otherwise this entire era was a failure.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I doubt it, although Zeke and Dicks have been wrong so many times about this team that it does make you wonder.

But will resurface before long to say we're elite and have the stats to prove it!

 

[cannucky]

"I won't quibble with you over it but if you think 3 straight Stanley Cups is not a dynasty then what is it?"
I already explained that in the previous post , please read that first .

 

[Le Magnifique]

We played that game from 1967 through 2004 with little to no results. 5 conference finals (or Stanley Cup semi-finals) appearances, overpaying outdated veterans and a whole lot of suck.

We have to find a way to win with the cap in place.

One thing I think that doesn't get mentioned, was the flat cap came into just as we got all our big guys signed. Without a doubt, that really threw a wrench in the dollar allocation plan.

I - and every other Leaf fan on this planet - do not regard 5 conference finals as "no results" - especially considering we (and I can't stress this enough) CANNOT MAKE IT OUT OF THE FIRST ROUND.

 

[wingman75]

I - and every other Leaf fan on this planet - do not regard 5 conference finals as "no results" - especially considering we (and I can't stress this enough) CANNOT MAKE IT OUT OF THE FIRST ROUND.

That's fair, it's not nothing... but no banners equals no results for me. Not to say I didn't appreciate those moments when they were happening, it was awesome!

 

[PaulD]

Looking back on the season, I was really angry at the team following the loss to the Habs, didn't bother watching the early part of the season but the team drew me back in because they were good this year.

As disappointing as the loss is, I think top guys have earned a summer without being scapegoated.

Marner, Matthews, Nylander - Only real complaint is that Nylander was a bit late in showing up. These guys earned a summer of not being scapegoated.

Tavares - Rough start to the series, finished strong. Didn't agree with the No Goal call. I think going forward, the Leafs will have to star preparing to find a new 2C as Tavares ages. He's likely going to have to switch to a winger role like Giroux did as he got older.

Kerfoot - Rough series for him but he's an important piece to the team, I'd like to see him finish out his contract here. Useful, versatile player.

Kampf - Love him as a shutdown center. Really surprising how well he played for us, I had no idea about him going into the season. Glad he'll be coming back.

Engvall - He surprised me with how much he improved this year. Really useful bottom six player. I dunno if we can bring him back but if we can, I'd do it.

Mikeyhev - Another player that has really surprised me this year. Thank you for your service Mikeyhev, good luck with your next contract.

Spezza - I dunno if he has another full season in him but I'd bring him back if he's willing to play less games and just be a locker room leader type.

Blackwell - Great to have on the 4th line.

Simmonds - He's probably washed. Loved him as a person though.

Bunting - He was better than I could have imagined. I think he played this series injured.

Defense:

Giordano - Would love him back, dunno if he'll come back.

Muzzin - He had a great series but he's aging and has injury issues. I dunno if he has another 82 game season in him.

Brodie - Great partner for Rielly. I don't know why they got away from that pairing.

Lybushkin - I don't think he's as good as people say he is. He's a really good 7th guy to have though.

Rielly - Love him warts and all.

Holl - I think he's a third pairing guy that got 2nd pairing minutes.

Liljegren/Sandin - These guys are full time NHLers. If they're not, the team should trade them next year because it's a waste to have these guys in the press box or on the bench. Next year is the final year of their RFA contracts as well. They need to be brought back and full intergrated into the team.

Goalies:

Campbell - Played as well as I could have asked him once his issues were sorted out. The Leafs aren't gonna be a team that beats others on the back of a goalie.

Mrazek - Didn't like the signing at the time but I just hope he can recover from a bad season. If he gets back to his career average he makes a good tandem goalie.

Kallagren/Woll - Just hoping they continue to develop.

Prospects -

Robertson - Mikeyhev is leaving, I hope Robertson can step in and replace him. Similar type of player - smart, two way winger type, good skater but Robertson has a much better shot.

Knies - He's spending another year in college but he'll be done before the end of the next regular season. Really interested to see how he fits on the team going forward.

Abruzzese - From what I saw of him, I think he needs a year in the AHL.

Nice report card.

Failed the end of year exams .

Rinse and repeat the year again .

 

[Racer88]

3 is a dynasty especially in today's NHL. Trilogy I think you are referring to Lord of the Rings.

And one to rule them all

 

[keonsbitterness]

And one to rule them all

Not too familiar with Lord of the Rings. Is this the lord dude?

 

[saffronleaf]

Moneypuck's deserve-to-win-o-meter says Leafs should have won, 70%

xG is ~4 for Leafs, ~2 for Lightning

MoneyPuck.com

Real Time Hockey Win Probabilities In Game

moneypuck.com

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Moneypuck's deserve-to-win-o-meter says Leafs should have won, 70%

xG is ~4 for Leafs, ~2 for Lightning

MoneyPuck.com

Real Time Hockey Win Probabilities In Game

moneypuck.com

Too bad we end up on the 30% far too often

 

[Divine]

Too bad we end up on the 30% far too often

A big reason to that is Campbell. He's 0-5 in elimination games, 4 of them (arguably all 5) we were the better team. For some reason, he gets anxious and always allows a bad first goal, usually on the first 5 shots of the game.

Then, the team just shuts us down and plays 5 guys back protecting the lead and it's obviously much more difficult to score.

I thought Game 5 and 6 against Montreal the Leafs were clearly the better team, especially in OT. The Leafs outshot Montreal like 18-3 in those two OT's. Campbell allowed 2 goals on 3 shots in OT.

I think the Leafs could have been the better team in Game 7 against Montreal but Campbell allowed a backbreaker first goal and then Montreal just shut it down, clogged the neutral zone and relied on Price. Hard for anyone to score like that.
--
Fast forward to Tampa:

Campbell almost always allowed a goal or more the first 5 shots of the game against Tampa. We're down 1 to 3 to nothing before we even get all our lines into the game.

Game 6 and 7 the Leafs are the better team. Unfortunately, hard to win when the Leafs dominate Game 6 and Campbell lets in a couple horrible goals. He let in like 3 soft goals that game, that was an easy win with average goaltending. That 5 on 3 goal, he was STANDING UP and the puck goes through his legs. You're 2 men down, killing a 5 on 3, if you can't see the puck, make yourself big. He is standing up to make himself as small as possible. It's unreal.

Even the OT goal, the Leafs get chance after chance on Vasi and Campbell gets a weak shot deflected on him and parted his legs like Moses with the red sea, easy tap in for Point.

Game 7, once again, he can never make a save. The Leafs are always chasing. They were able to come back a few times from 2-0, but Tampa plays 5 back on the goalie, who's also a stud. The Leafs need consistent goaltending, not even great goaltending. Just a goalie who can give us consistent ~.910 goaltending and doesn't get anxious under pressure and I think the Leafs win that series and go to the Conference Finals at minimum, if not the cup final.

 

[Mr Bill Waters]

But will resurface before long to say we're elite and have the stats to prove it!

We are elite: 115pts. We got jobbed by the refs.

 

[Stamkos4life]

James Mirtle and Kyle Dubas are BFF's. So ofc Mirtle will use his platform to defend his pal.

First it was Lou who was the problem. Then it was Babcock. Then Andersen. But never have Mirtle said anything against Kyle "Dubler" Dubas.

What Leafs need to do is fire Dubas and don't let Mirtle's propaganda people in the building for free. Let them pay for tickets.

I honestly wonder how much the support of the media influences people.

Some just aren't intelligent enough to analyze things themselves. So they just repeat what they were told by the talking heads.

I think it must be his "woke" policies that has won him so much favour with the media.

so a portion of the fanbase believes in phantom goals now too? do the phantom stats track these phantom goals? Zeke got a spreadsheet for that?

I see where we are at these days.

Xphantom goals/60 lol

Yes they did. Its called a disallowed GOAL for a reason...

It was a goal... that was disallowed... both teams scored 2 goals.

how is this an argument? christ.

If it didn't count, it wasn't a goal.

How does something this basic need to be explained to you and dekes?

Let's get some perspective on this. It is pretty simple. How many lost games in a row in series at 3-2 or 3-3? You guys know this stuff. 6, 8? And 10 lost playoffs in a row? Second highest in sport?

There is no point in blaming refs, curses, bad luck, coaches, even the Big 4. The data speak loudly over time. The hypothesis that you can win with a team with this much salary inequality has been tested, and the null hypothesis holds: you can't. Dubas has had his time. He had a "new" theory about what works, he had his time to prove his theory.

I read some incredibly stupid and pathetic journalists online about not blowing this up. How can these people dare to apologize, to blind themselves, so easily? The bottom line is that change, serious change is necessary. You need to break with this past however you can, and it IS psychological.

It starts with Dubas. He has to go. Just trying something different at this point will help. Then the coach. He is not an NHL coach. Has anyone wondered why all of these people had to have some association with the SOO Greyhounds to be legitimate? Are there other OHL teams with promising people running them? Watching Keefe in that documentary last year made it obvious to me that the players don't believe in this guy -- he has no authority, no impact.

Then there are trades. You CANNOT have a team with this kind of salary imbalance, because it means somewhere down the lineup you are suffering. The third line is weak -- period. The defense is almost good enough. The goalie is almost good enough. The bottom six are not close to almost good enough. I lived near New York during the Islanders era -- go look at the balanced scoring in that team. Both third line wingers scored 20 to 30 goals every year. Trade Tavares if possible, Nylander, whoever.

I will NOT watch this team another year if it is same-old, same-old.

Well said.

Who honestly thought it was smart having three forwards making 10+ mil each?

Or having ~50% of the cap tied up in four forwards?

Some of us saw this coming back in 2019.

Yet to the fan boys, dubas is still an amazing gm. The delusion knows no bounds.

the bottom 6 is a secondary concern

they NEED a goalie

if you need extra money you can probably LTIR Muzzin, I don't really want to do that I love Muzzin but it appears that's where this is going that dude is hurt A LOT



Nobody saw a world wide pandemic coming there is a lot....... A LOT of things to be critical of Dubas for I want him fired, but not being able to predict a world wide pandemic is not something to be critical of Dubas for

I haven't heard of a single other team blame the pandemic as much as certain leaf fans have.

It's almost like all the other gms knew that spending money that doesn't exist yet is foolish.

But not our gm.

Why did we ever have to hire kid Kyle. He's already wasted 4 years of the most proving team I've ever seen.

There is no argument for Matthews being better than McDavid before 2022.

There is no argument Matthews is a better player than McDavid when using a sample size greater than 1 year

2022 Matthews is neck and neck with McDavid in the regular season. If this is who he is moving forward it'll be close.

However 1 year of this play doesn't erase 5 years of play which are heavily in 97s favour.

The only year where Matthews and McDavid can be compared are in 2021-2022

Every year outside of that Matthews is blown away

Mcdavid has had more assists than matthews has had points in 4/6 seasons.

The gap is far larger than some are willing to admit. Especially when you take playoffs into account.

This team will win. If any changes are going to be made I hope they are not huge.

I thought they played hard. It sucks to lose but I was not embarrassed by this loss, more pissed at inconsistent reffing... I was proud of how they played. Even with the question marks on reffing it was a even series that could have gone either way. Tampa is good. So are the leafs. Nuff said.

These guys are still young, they battled and I can get behind them another year.

The Leafs played hard during the 2017 and 2018 playoffs.

4 years later (and 4 first round loses later) we are supposed to take solace in the fact that we battled?

How are so many of you still buying this garbage?

It's the definition of insanity.

They didn't show for game 7 the last 3 years and deserved a ton of criticism for it. This year they gave it all they had so of course I give them credit for that, why wouldn't I.

Do you really not see the difference between this year and the 3 previous years?

Man ohhhhh man!!! LMFAO.

The end result was the exact same.

The fact some of you are buying the "Tampa gave us respect during the handshake line" is honestly disturbing.

Imagine giving praise after their 6th consecutive first round loss. "Hey at least they battled hard this year" lmao

This is so dumb.

The dumbest thing was hiring a rookie gm at such a crucial time.

I personally find this amusing:
We hired a rookie president
We hired a rookie gm
We hired a rookie coach

Why is the mecca of the hockeyverse hiring three rookies for such critical roles?

Yet some wonder why we still can't win a single playoff round.

And world is flat and birds aren't real too right? Lol
Love or hate dubas, this "divide" thing has been ongoing for a while now in the world, with EVERYTHING. It's pathetic. But this is veering on political so I'll stop.

I'm down for whatever to make changes. Fire this guy, keep that guy, whatever. I'm not attached to anyone. If trading one of our core players makes us better and we win, do it. Just don't f*** it up and let it make us worse

Go Leafs go!

I doubt the Leafs would've fired their goaltending coach for liking things on Twitter if dubas wasn't gm.

I've never seen the leafs fanbase this divided.

We have some who don't care how many first round loses we get as long as dubas keeps his job.

While actual leaf fans just want us to succeed.

this is the first time he's done that in the playoffs.

Mcdavid has had more assists than matthews has had points in 4/6 seasons.

His PO production is also much better.

At this point I am convinced Dubas has hired posters to defend MLSE and his staff
They'll go to every length and find every reason to defend the effort of this team and staff

That's exactly what my brother said!

No actual leaf fan would want to keep the gm who can't win a single PO round.

To many appear to be dubas fan first, leaf fans a distant 2nd.

I was straight up told by one dubas fan boy that no matter how many first round loses we get, they don't want dubas fired.

That really says it all.

I waited the extra few days liked you asked. I saw it coming. So did others. Dubas fan club didn't. You're still trying to police the fanbase even though it's been proved time and time again part of said fanbase gets it.

We've listened to the Dubas followers for a while now, and nothing they say comes to fruition. It's time to move on.

The funny thing is that back in 2019 anyone who doubted dubas was mocked and told they weren't a real leaf fan.

When else have we been told that we aren't a real leaf fan for doubting the gm?

After 4 years of being almost completely wrong, it's shocking that the dubas fan boys are still here trying to tell us how amazing Kyle is and how nothing is his fault.

It's almost like results and facts have no place in their reasoning. It's all just emotions.

Heres a thought
If they didn't lose due to lack of effort then they must have lost to lack of overall team talent , those are the only two reasons for losing , either they didn't try hard enough or they just aren't good enough , pick one they both mean the same thing after 5 failed attempts that I count , It's insanity that trying the same thing over and over is going to yield a different result .






REPLY

Whether the players failed to put in the effort or they failed due to lack of ability, both fall on the person in charge of assembling the team.

That would be the gm.

The fact so many can blame the players while giving the guy in charge of every aspect of the team a free pass is some next level mental gymnastics.

 

[TorMapleJays]

The end result was the exact same.

The fact some of you are buying the "Tampa gave us respect during the handshake line" is honestly disturbing.

Imagine giving praise after their 6th consecutive first round loss. "Hey at least they battled hard this year" lmao

My wife left me for another man, but he is very handsome so I can respect that.