Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 9-3 to a Team That Lost 9-4

[hfman]

That's honestly disgusting

The only consolation is Sabres fans and their players actually have to live in Buffalo lol

Record is actually 34-76 all time in Buffalo, just updating that here. Still a joke.

It doesn't come down to just pure luck. If it did, the win/loss record is a lot closer. So there's something else going on here, and has been for 53 years consistently.

It's a lot closer in the Leafs barn... 52 Leaf wins, 51 losses... so the Leafs actually have a winning record by a single game when playing at home against the Sabres. Nothing stands out as odd about that record, it's a completely natural statistic.

So why is it insanely lop-sided when the games are in Buffalo? If nothing was going on there, the record would be just as close, even if it was still a losing record. But all-time (more than 5 decades now), the Leafs average almost a loss every other game over there, so that's not a natural outcome of all the games they've ever played there. Something else is clearly at play.


I honestly can't figure it out. Maybe all these Leaf teams over the years are distracted by the unusual mixture of fans in the building - more loud, rowdy Toronto fans than they're used to and less Buffalo fans - and it's throwing the players off?

Could be a psychological issue and it's to do with the balance and character of the fans in the building each and every time. Leaf fans at the ACC are mostly reserved and corporate; Leaf fans in the Sabres barn are the complete opposite: loud, passionate, obnoxious and outright rowdy - something the players aren't used to and are probably thrown off and distracted by, therefore taking them off their game.

What else can it f*cking be

 

[Lightsol]

Over the years, has Keefe coached with no structure whatsover? Not even close, he's a very structured coach..... it's not him. Sometimes they play that structured system, sometimes they don't... I mean that should be obvious to anyone watching.

But, maybe the players have stopped listening to him... so maybe it's time for a change... I don't think HE's the problem, but he needs to be replaced, so that maybe they listen to someone.

As far as Sammy is concerned... I mean, he's a guy that they need to get going, so they tried him... and they needed to try him. They need to have Sammy and Woll playing well, and healthy, if they are going to have any chance at all... so they did what they needed to, and it didn't work out. It's one game in the middle of the season, so it doesn't mean too much... but it does answer some questions for us. At this point, Sammy can't be trusted for a bit here, and I'm not even sure how you get his game back now... but I'm not mad at the coach for trying to get the guy who was supposed to be their #1 goalie going... when he was very good last year, and they need him to be good again this year.... some are putting far too much importance into one game.

This isn't a "this year" problem, it's been a problem for the last 5 years. I have never seen a Keefe coached game where the guys appear to actually know where they should be on a given shift. If it ain't 3 or 4 guys in the same corner trying to dig the puck out and failing (while other team forwards are left wide open), it's someone going for a random stake and ending up in no man's land, or multiple guys standing around while the other team charges the net and scores. It's happened no matter who is on the roster, no matter who is playing, and it's clearly coaching.

Last night it was compounded by the clear desire of half the team to prevent shots on goal because they didn't trust Sammy, but even in the 7-0 Pittsburgh game there were times where Leafs were way out of position and the Pens got scoring chances out of it.

 

[Fogelhund]

This isn't a "this year" problem, it's been a problem for the last 5 years. I have never seen a Keefe coached game where the guys appear to actually know where they should be on a given shift. If it ain't 3 or 4 guys in the same corner trying to dig the puck out and failing (while other team forwards are left wide open), it's someone going for a random stake and ending up in no man's land, or multiple guys standing around while the other team charges the net and scores. It's happened no matter who is on the roster, no matter who is playing, and it's clearly coaching.

Last night it was compounded by the clear desire of half the team to prevent shots on goal because they didn't trust Sammy, but even in the 7-0 Pittsburgh game there were times where Leafs were way out of position and the Pens got scoring chances out of it.

So, when they are playing properly... it's the players... and when they aren't, it's the coach? Or when they are playing properly, is that the coach?

 

[ULF_55]

30 year old Nylander
29 year old Matthews
29 year old marner

That really isn't old.

Just have to hope they've drafted some NHLers.

 

[ACC1224]

that he was a board hire, not necessarily a Shanahan hire..........

If the board was telling Shanahan who to hire we would know about it. The Board would be aware of his choice but wouldn’t tell him what to do.

What does that have to do with Papa Treliving ?

 

[Lightsol]

So, when they are playing properly... it's the players... and when they aren't, it's the coach? Or when they are playing properly, is that the coach?

I would argue they never really have played properly. The team mainly won because they have a lot of scoring talent and up until this year, they had a bunch of very good defensive forwards and defensemen, and they had goalies that got hot at the right times. But they've always been a bit of a tire fire, and this year it's exacerbated by Sammy's complete collapse, age catching up to Brodie and Gio and the bulk of their off-season acquisitions being poor defensively, unlike previous years.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Really disappointing game. That goaltending was horrific. I really hope Woll is back soon, because Samsonov can't get out of his own head right now, and Jones hasn't been a good goalie in this league since the core was rookies. That said, it's also another game where we got outplayed on the ice, and we deserved to lose, and that's been the case this year way too much. I don't know how we fix that without a time machine back to last offseason...

 

[Nineteen67]

I would argue they never really have played properly. The team mainly won because they have a lot of scoring talent and up until this year, they had a bunch of very good defensive forwards and defensemen, and they had goalies that got hot at the right times. But they've always been a bit of a tire fire, and this year it's exacerbated by Sammy's complete collapse, age catching up to Brodie and Gio and the bulk of their off-season acquisitions being poor defensively, unlike previous years.

The team has never been built to win in the playoffs and coaching has tried to compensate to get around the deficiencies. It looks like they’ll make the playoffs and yet it might be a good time to get a new voice in the room.

 

[m1ker]

The team hasn’t changed much in five years and they’re still too scared to trade players. What else did we expect?

 

[BallardEra]

really hope Woll is back soon,

You're still probably looking at 4 weeks in a best case scenario.

Then we hope he can stay healthy because it will get really ugly if he doesn't.

 

[myleafs]

Fact is, you can't win the Stanley Cup with 40mil forwards and dollar store goaltending. The goaltending has been truly bungled by Dubas. Tre has to fix it.

But thats the corner the leafs find themselves painted into isnt it? We need some good stuff to fill some holes but are unwilling to give up good stuff to get the good stuff we need , so around and around we go.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You're still probably looking at 4 weeks in a best case scenario.

It's that long still? Yikes.

 

[Lightsol]

The team has never been built to win in the playoffs and coaching has tried to compensate to get around the deficiencies. It looks like they’ll make the playoffs and yet it might be a good time to get a new voice in the room.

Nah, I think the team could win in the playoffs, but not the way they're being coached to right now. As it is, it's way too easy for other teams to manipulate and outcoach them to get the results they want, and Keefe is too stubborn to change what he's been doing. So the "solutions" tend to be "go back to what worked years ago", even though it hasn't worked for a while (how many times did Keefe try to "fix" the shutdown pairing problem by throwing out Muzzin and Holl because it worked the first year he was here?), and due to the lack of defensive structure, they heavily rely on the goalie getting hot at the right time... Which hasn't happened for them yet, and may never happen.

If you want me to narrow down the most annoying thing Keefe does, it's probably this: The Leafs are one of the worst teams in the NHL in terms of getting offense from the defense, and yet I'm pretty positive they also pinch more than any other team in the NHL. Keefe always wants his D-men ready to pinch to keep possession, but this stubborn insistence on doing it constantly leads to D-men who should NEVER be pinching doing it anyway. Why do you have Brodie and McCabe pinching constantly? Neither of them are good at it, they don't provide enough offense to make it worthwhile and they frequently get caught doing it. It's okay for Reilly, Lilj and to a lesser extent Timmins doing it because they have the speed to get back if necessary (though Timmins needs to learn to pick his spots better), but NO ONE ELSE should be doing it on this team...

The team hasn’t changed much in five years and they’re still too scared to trade players. What else did we expect?

Huh? With the exception of the core 5, EVERY player on this team has less than 5 years here. Afraid to make trades?

 

[Nineteen67]

Nah, I think the team could win in the playoffs, but not the way they're being coached to right now. As it is, it's way too easy for other teams to manipulate and outcoach them to get the results they want, and Keefe is too stubborn to change what he's been doing. So the "solutions" tend to be "go back to what worked years ago", even though it hasn't worked for a while (how many times did Keefe try to "fix" the shutdown pairing problem by throwing out Muzzin and Holl because it worked the first year he was here?), and due to the lack of defensive structure, they heavily rely on the goalie getting hot at the right time... Which hasn't happened for them yet, and may never happen.

If you want me to narrow down the most annoying thing Keefe does, it's probably this: The Leafs are one of the worst teams in the NHL in terms of getting offense from the defense, and yet I'm pretty positive they also pinch more than any other team in the NHL. Keefe always wants his D-men ready to pinch to keep possession, but this stubborn insistence on doing it constantly leads to D-men who should NEVER be pinching doing it anyway. Why do you have Brodie and McCabe pinching constantly? Neither of them are good at it, they don't provide enough offense to make it worthwhile and they frequently get caught doing it. It's okay for Reilly, Lilj and to a lesser extent Timmins doing it because they have the speed to get back if necessary (though Timmins needs to learn to pick his spots better), but NO ONE ELSE should be doing it on this team...


Huh? With the exception of the core 5, EVERY player on this team has less than 5 years here. Afraid to make trades?

I don’t think many would be upset, or shocked, if they replaced Keefe, but some of the blame remains with the players.

 

[ZEBROA]

When I saw the picture I thought it was from The Beaverton.

I love Swedish meatballs, but as my wife said "how do you cook that thing?"

Yeah you should se the frying pan