Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 5-4 in OT | Lead series 2-1

[The Hanging Jowl]

We need him to score goals, man. That's like 90% of his game. The other stuff is great, but him scoring goals would be so much more useful to us

You have no idea what the coach is asking him to do.

 

[Rare Jewel]

You have no idea what the coach is asking him to do.

He could be asking him to belly dance for all we know, but we do know he's not paid $13m to belly dance.

 

[pcruz]

That’s the read I’ve done as well. Also seems like he’s working for Marner, or Marner’s agent, sometimes?

Nylander was completely gassed at the end. It’s Tavares that needs to get that puck out when he could’ve. But he’s Canadian.

I heard the other day how Kypreos was like ”Nylanders got the sweet spot, he’s not catching any criticism because he’s the third wheel”, not mentioning how he’s outscored and outperformed the other two for 5 straight playoffs now.

Send Willy to us (the Sharks)! We’ll take care of him and give him the spotlight he deserves

The problem with this train of thought is that while Willy has 44 even strength points in his playoff career, he is a +1.
Meaning he is barely above breaking even on overall impact.
All while facing the opposition's secondary defrlenders.

Meanwhile, the shitty Matthews has 41 even strength points, but is a +5. While facing the opposing primary players.



Does anyone remember that time we had a phenomenal offensive player who didn't try very hard defensively, was matched with primary defenders and didn't quite meet expectations, chased out of town, went to a team where he was not the primary player and then won 2 cups and got shafted on a Conn Smythe as he feasted on secondary and tertiary opponents?

Me neither.

Willy has gotten the benefit of that last part of the deal, but while he's been good offensively, he hasn't been outstanding.

This post season, he has done his job of generating offense. That's his only role on the team. He isn't expected to win draws, or play down low, or backcheck particularly hard, or kill penalties. Simply to produce offensively.

Tavares is tasked with covering down low and in his zone, win face-offs and to pop in a bit offensively. He has done his job thus far.

The 3rd line and the 4th line are out there to give the top guys a break and to wear down the opposition while not giving up much. They've done their job.

The top line is tasked with generating offense, nullifying Barkov, Vergaege and Reinhart. They have done this to a T (outside of the 3 horrendous goals given up by Woll).

 

[34]

The Leafs need Stolarz back if they are to have any chance in winning this.

 

[Goodfellows]

Never gonna win with Woll

Nylander was an absolute disgrace. f***ing zero effort. f*** off

That’s likely the season

When I saw the highlights this morning on the OT goal. I didn't pick up on it during the goal, but I was extremely upset that Nylander was just floating around with no intensity or aggression towards the point. Just floating around trying to cheat for a pass instead of being defensively responsible. I'm still steaming and p--- ed off!! Everything he has accomplished this series was just nullified with that lazy attitude.

 

[pcruz]

Yeah, this isn't as impressive if you actually break it down.
Washington Cup winners ... next season.
Boston Cup finalists ... next season.
Montreal ... Got their ass handed to them by Tampa in 5.
Boston (2024) ... Got smoked in the 2nd round.

This delusion of "oh the poor Leafs always getting great teams". They had 8 years prior to this to be the great team. When you keep pointing to the success of other teams, it's like somehow Toronto was handicapped into not being able to match that level?

Lastly, 2017 Reg. season:
Toronto/Boston - 95 points
Tampa Bay - 94 points
Florida - 81 points.

So, Toronto was as good or better than all those teams that year. Yet since then Boston's won the division twice and been to the finals, Tampa Bay 2 divisions, 2 Cups, 3 Final appearances, Florida 2 divisions, 1 cup, 1 final appearance. Toronto, prior to this year, zip. Nothing.

In other words, stop giving Toronto a pass because other teams built themselves up better for both the regular season & playoffs and not coincidentally have had much greater playoff success.

You say delusion, and I say this is a fact:

An Atlantic Division team has played in the Stanley Cup Finals 7 times in the last 6 years.

Put it differently, in the last 6 years, a team from the other 3 Divisions has competed for the cup 5 times.

The quality of competition in the Atlantic Division is significantly higher than that for the other Divisions.

The closest comparison recently has been the Dallas - Colorado match-up this year. Toronto has been in that kind of quagmire since Matthews, Marner and Nylander came into the fold.

Have they lived up to expectations? No, not quite. Have they been bad in that time frame? No, not really.

Toronto has been blown out in 1 series out of the 11. Almost all of them have gone to a deciding game.

The top players have all been close to a point per game in that tenure.

The goaltending has been at or below .900 for the whole time.



And of course, the blame must rest entirely on the 2 guys tasked with the most responsibility on the team...

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

Barkov isn't a 2 time 60 goal scorer.

Barkov is making less than a contract Tavares signed 7 YEARS ago. Nevermind Matthews.

 

[KAWAIlllI]

The problem with this train of thought is that while Willy has 44 even strength points in his playoff career, he is a +1.
Meaning he is barely above breaking even on overall impact.
All while facing the opposition's secondary defrlenders.

Meanwhile, the shitty Matthews has 41 even strength points, but is a +5. While facing the opposing primary players.



Does anyone remember that time we had a phenomenal offensive player who didn't try very hard defensively, was matched with primary defenders and didn't quite meet expectations, chased out of town, went to a team where he was not the primary player and then won 2 cups and got shafted on a Conn Smythe as he feasted on secondary and tertiary opponents?

Me neither.

Willy has gotten the benefit of that last part of the deal, but while he's been good offensively, he hasn't been outstanding.

This post season, he has done his job of generating offense. That's his only role on the team. He isn't expected to win draws, or play down low, or backcheck particularly hard, or kill penalties. Simply to produce offensively.

Tavares is tasked with covering down low and in his zone, win face-offs and to pop in a bit offensively. He has done his job thus far.

The 3rd line and the 4th line are out there to give the top guys a break and to wear down the opposition while not giving up much. They've done their job.

The top line is tasked with generating offense, nullifying Barkov, Vergaege and Reinhart. They have done this to a T (outside of the 3 horrendous goals given up by Woll).

The problem I have with this thought is that it’s a bit weird. Matthews is, what, the second most payed player in the world? He should score, produce, not be Samma Pålsson, counted on defensive work. The Draisaitls, McDavids, McKinnons, and Rantanens of this world are expected to generate offense, so why is Matthews any different?

Also, ALL top players are facing great defense this late into the playoffs. It’s not like a line like Tkatchuks or Lundells are much worse than the Barkov line, come on now. It also matters what defenders are out there usually, but teams like Florida is deep. Don’t come here echoing Kypreos.

And, the amazing defender Tavares is the one not getting the puck out of the zone when it mattered the most in OT.

 

[ThrowDemTongs]

You have no idea what the coach is asking him to do.

No, definitely not, but I highly doubt Berube is asking Matthews, a prolific goal scorer, to miss the net.

There's something wrong with him.

 

[pcruz]

The problem I have with this thought is that it’s a bit weird. Matthews is, what, the second most payed player in the world? He should score, produce, not be Samma Pålsson, counted on defensive work. The Draisaitls, McDavids, McKinnons, and Rantanens of this world are expected to generate offense, so why is Matthews any different?

Also, ALL top players are facing great defense this late into the playoffs. It’s not like a line like Tkatchuks or Lundells are much worse than the Barkov line, come on now. It also matters what defenders are out there usually, but teams like Florida is deep. Don’t come here echoing Kypreos.

And, the amazing defender Tavares is the one not getting the puck out of the zone when it mattered the most in OT.

I don't know what salary plays into this.

The team exists as it does, the players don't wear their salary on their jersey.


And for all the absolute heroic offensive effort by McDavid, Draisaitl, Mackinnon, and Rantanen, there is a total of 1 Cup win there.

Colorado has had the privilege of facing off against Tampa, Boston, Florida all of 1 time in the last 9 years.
Convenient that you left out Makar and Landeskog and Toews and Kadri from that Colorado grouping. Those guys played a small part in winning the cup.

Also, please remind me of how many pk minutes McDavid, Draisaitl, Mackinnon, Rantanen have combined for these playoffs.

How have their respective pk performed while they have been out there killing penalties?

 

[ahmedou]

Maple Leafs All-Time in Playoffs Games worked by referee Wes McCauley: 0-9

 

[WillyC]

The most Dangerous man on the Leafs is Matthew Knies… he is literally playing like a Honey Badger out there.

Leafs in 5

 

[darrylsittler27]

I'm not sure the Leafs going up 3 to 0 means much. We needed a split, now Woll has to find his game. I'd make some lineup changes now.

 

[authentic]

The Leafs need Stolarz back if they are to have any chance in winning this.

I don’t think so, we still win this series with Woll.

 

[KAWAIlllI]

I don't know what salary plays into this.

The team exists as it does, the players don't wear their salary on their jersey.


And for all the absolute heroic offensive effort by McDavid, Draisaitl, Mackinnon, and Rantanen, there is a total of 1 Cup win there.

Colorado has had the privilege of facing off against Tampa, Boston, Florida all of 1 time in the last 9 years.
Convenient that you left out Makar and Landeskog and Toews and Kadri from that Colorado grouping. Those guys played a small part in winning the cup.

Also, please remind me of how many pk minutes McDavid, Draisaitl, Mackinnon, Rantanen have combined for these playoffs.

How have their respective pk performed while they have been out there killing penalties?

But we were talking about absolute “superstars” here, or the ones paid like one? I left out secondary players on other teams as well. And the whole point I was trying to make was that one shouldn’t expect or judge a 14-ish mil player based on his PK or defensive skills when they’re paid to score….? Ofc it’s a plus if they can play defense, but…

Anywho, let’s just agree to disagree

 

[authentic]

The issue is he has two goals. 2.

He's 9th on the team in goals. Considering he's being paid a lot of money to be the team's primary goal scorer, being outscored by the entire rest of the top 6 plus two defenseman is really, really bad.

He has an injured wrist, obviously not able to shoot the puck and still wins his matchups against top competition. I don’t know why people think he’s suddenly going to start sniping goals.

 

[Rare Jewel]

I don’t think so, we still win this series with Woll.

Woll just needs to stop things like that 4th goal from yesterday.

Getting goals from someone other than Knies or Nylander is more crucial for the remainder of this series.

 

[Delete1]

Counting your chickens wayyyy before they hatch.

Let's not get carried away here - Leafs are still in a fantastic position but they need to elevate their gsme to a completely different level here to get 2 more wins.

I'm not worried about this series. Florida is too leaky to hold a lead or build a big enough lead. I expect the Leafs will take the next two games, although I could see both being one goal games again.

 

[arso40]

The problem with this train of thought is that while Willy has 44 even strength points in his playoff career, he is a +1.
Meaning he is barely above breaking even on overall impact.
All while facing the opposition's secondary defrlenders.

Meanwhile, the shitty Matthews has 41 even strength points, but is a +5. While facing the opposing primary players.



Does anyone remember that time we had a phenomenal offensive player who didn't try very hard defensively, was matched with primary defenders and didn't quite meet expectations, chased out of town, went to a team where he was not the primary player and then won 2 cups and got shafted on a Conn Smythe as he feasted on secondary and tertiary opponents?

Me neither.

Willy has gotten the benefit of that last part of the deal, but while he's been good offensively, he hasn't been outstanding.

This post season, he has done his job of generating offense. That's his only role on the team. He isn't expected to win draws, or play down low, or backcheck particularly hard, or kill penalties. Simply to produce offensively.

Tavares is tasked with covering down low and in his zone, win face-offs and to pop in a bit offensively. He has done his job thus far.

The 3rd line and the 4th line are out there to give the top guys a break and to wear down the opposition while not giving up much. They've done their job.

The top line is tasked with generating offense, nullifying Barkov, Vergaege and Reinhart. They have done this to a T (outside of the 3 horrendous goals given up by Woll).

It’s your opinion he plays secondary defenders not one I share with you his first two years he played with Matthews even disregarding that Willie’s getting the top defenders I seem to remember seeing forsling trying to catch Willy on that pass he batted out the air in ot

 

[1specter]

FYI, Stolarz from game 3 of the Ottawa series onwards was rocking an .877 sv% and let in multiple weak goals where he completely fell asleep. The team still got it done, but it's not like Stolie was lighting the world on fire. They already have two wins with Woll in the bag this series so they can clearly win with him in net - they were one shot away from doing it again last night.

 

[67leafs]

I was at the game….morgan rielly is an issue.
Willy out of touch last night also.

 

[Rare Jewel]

FYI, Stolarz from game 3 of the Ottawa series onwards was rocking an .877 sv% and let in multiple weak goals where he completely fell asleep. The team still got it done, but it's not like Stolie was lighting the world on fire. They already have two wins with Woll in the bag this series so they can clearly win with him in net - they were one shot away from doing it again last night.

Find me a Leaf who had a good game in game 5 vs Ottawa. He had three good games, one okay, and two bad.

Yet, do we need to mention that we need to feel better about Woll?

Woll is Woll; If he can do most of what he did vs. Boston last year, the series is doable. The same goes for Big Tony if he were healthy.

 

[seventieslord]

Hes shooting at 6 percent, like last year. A sniper can't have that, he deserves criticism. Love his 200 foot game, but hit the net bud. Isn't the first year we've see this either.

Ironically, his terrible shooting percentage is based on him doing exactly that.... Hitting the net. Problem is the goalie is in the way. The 6% doesn't include the other key part of the problem, all the shots he's putting wide and into shin pads

 

[rumman]

He could be asking him to belly dance for all we know, but we do know he's not paid $13m to belly dance.

This seems so obvious, but still some cannot grasp the concept. If we wanted Mathews to play like Adam Lowry we’d get Adam Lowry and save 10 mil per year…….

 

[JSn0w93]

Matthews needs to be a difference maker offensively, especially on the PP when Barkov isn't breathing down his neck. IF he gets going we win this series running away.