Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 4-2

[Ports]

Sadly for some, it’s been since 1967, I wonder how many of Leaf Nation weren’t even born then?

I was and saw them win two cups but it’s such a distant memory it almost seems like a different franchise anyway. I can honestly say that the failure of this group of players and of this management team to do the things needed with them is the most disappointing nine years out of the 60+ that I’ve been a Leafs fan. My wife who’s from Detroit (who incidentally invited me to their training cap in 1979) thinks I am a real sucker to still follow the team and I’m beginning to think she’s right. Not sure if there is a cure for the disease though.

 

[Ports]

Yes, I do think the leafs will win the division. The question may actually now be whether that's a good thing or not. It looks like Ottawa and the Rangers may end up being the wild card team, unless Columbus keep pace, and there is an argument that the leafs would be better off playing Tampa in the first round than either of those two teams. People here love to remember what Vasi used to be, but I would not be thrilled to face Shesterkin in the playoffs.

I wouldn’t get too picky. They’ll need to play Florida in round two in any case.

 

[Ports]

I do wonder what a coach like Cooper could do.

He wouldn’t be afraid to bench players that’s for sure. He benches Kucherov and Point when they’re not working hard enough FFS.

 

[Ports]

Do you trust this management group to use that 7.5 mill prudently? I mean, who in the f*** scouted Laughton, Bob Nevin? I have seen NO redeeming qualities in this guy, he does NOTHING on the ice. And we traded a first for him? Nah, at this point, run them all back till we miss the playoffs and then clean house completely, starting with Shanahan.

So you’d extend Shanny after this season when his contract expires ?

 

[Ports]

I disagree. And I'm aware of the NMC. I think Rielly would agree to a move somewhere on the west coast. He just doesn't strike me as the dig in type of guy. I'm not fussed about the return, I'd throw that 7.5m+ savings at Chychrun.

It won’t be $7.5M though because the Leafs will have to eat at least $2M of it but I’d still do it.

 

[Ports]

They were dead set on hiring Berube rather than a coach that could actually compliment the roster. Looking rough so far.

Not sure that coach exists.

 

[Ports]

Chelios isn't a perfect arbiter of integrity either and I don't think we're on a moral high ground to burden Shanahan with Chelios' perspective of him.

I would wager that Shanahan submits to his own standard and if he does re-sign, will do so for a shorter term that adheres to Treliving's tenure and Matthews' contract. And by standards, I mean he's been more than fair with previous players, coaches and managers allowing time for opportunity of redemption and conclusive assessment. He's also owned his mistakes at pressers. But it is fashionable to completely forget what steps Shanahan took towards improving our club and the systematic fashion he went about empowering certain people against specific context.

All that said, that doesn't mean that it would illogical that he is the next piece to go. Quite the opposite.

I think there's a possibility we were duped by the two foundational pieces that NO ONE could have predicted - including Mark Hunter when drafted Marner, or us for Marner's first three seasons.

The obvious point of departure occurred when we signed Tavares. That singular act dismantled every necessary developmental and team building gate. And shock of shocks, it's already been seven years since that signing.

And that's what everyone is feeling because of the perch we found ourselves looking down from - shock that we haven't made the Conference Finals, the Finals...one single second round and two first rounds....It's justifiable to be in shock given the heights that seemed inevitable.

Mike Babcock was right on so many fronts. And one thing he NAILED Matthews on was something he shared in person with him when he said something to the effect: If your talent exceeds your work ethic, you'll never succeed.

I think Shanahan has pivoted correctly. I think Covid played a part and I think Dubas saw the light too late as well. As I mentioned to another member, its as though there's a memo that's routinely sent from above management that says, X-outlay for X-type of player with X-type trade impact for some unknown media value that's handed down, and GM after GM, this self-sabotaging Toronto model imposes itself as though each new iteration of Leafs management hasn't seen PRECISELY the same red button pushed to our detriment.

Shanny was the one who departed from his plan by signing Tavares. That plus his “running it back philosophy” would have gotten him fired long ago by an ownership group that cared about winning.

 

[Ports]

When he bought into Dubas’ team building approach he showed that he doesn’t know how to win in today’s game. He was on the committee with the NHL that changed the rules to speed up the game and he believed he and Dubas had the cheat code for how the game should be played. Boy was he wrong.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

So you’d extend Shanny after this season when his contract expires ?

Reluctantly, yes. I'd extend him another two years as long as we keep making the playoffs and then at the end of Matthews' contract begin a retool. His replacement will probably wait a year before making any big changes.

 

[notDatsyuk]

The Leafs also don’t pass the puck well. Too much time on the PP is spent accepting a pass and dusting it off. Very few one timers or shots off the pass. The best power plays in the league pass the puck well and have more set positions to shoot from. The Leafs PP is just too easy to defend.

With Marner at the blueline other teams don't have to respect the shot, so they collapse more, forcing Matthews and Nylander farther out. This makes cross ice passes more likely to be cut off, and one timers harder.

 

[ITM]

Shanny was the one who departed from his plan by signing Tavares. That plus his “running it back philosophy” would have gotten him fired long ago by an ownership group that cared about winning.

I think that's true but should be qualified as a departure without the knowledge of cap changes on the near horizon (i.e. Covid) that unequivocally changed our future capability to sign the depth we needed. But this to say, the timing was ill-considered given the opportunism of Matthews and Marner and to a smaller extent, Nylander. I think he was genuinely taken aback by the new NHL.

When he bought into Dubas’ team building approach he showed that he doesn’t know how to win in today’s game. He was on the committee with the NHL that changed the rules to speed up the game and he believed he and Dubas had the cheat code for how the game should be played. Boy was he wrong.

Yep. I think the bold is a much-needed under-emphasized point that should be repeated. I think Colorado's profound interest in Dubas (or the leveraged appearance of it) was the primary factor for Shanahan hedging against Lamoriello. A cautionary tale not to allow fearful thinking enter the equation. A lesson from Sir Alex Ferguson would have been useful then and there. And by then and there, how painful is it to realize that we were right there, and didn't need to move out our bargain gritty 2C. We just needed to make small changes, sign support players, stock draft picks, maximize our 1sts and where possible, pounce on promising RHDs with the excess.

Maybe we could coax Sir Alex out of retirement to serve as our organization's invincible Jiminy Cricket?

 

[Anthrax442]

Delet

 

[ITM]

I think Shanahan’s ego loves the idea of being the guy that brought the cup to Toronto. He wants to win. He’s a Stanley cup champ and knows what it takes to win. Unfortunately the core is rotten and they are not playoff warrior types.

Let’s hope for a McDavid signing to the leafs next summer and rebuild around him

My ego loves the idea of Shanahan being the guy that brought the Cup to Toronto.

Make no mistake, I want the Cup if it means outspending the other competition or outsmarting the league's parameters.

Apart from being a Leafs fan, consider the size of Toronto's market in this sport. Consider our history. When we win -- and I've said this repeatedly -- any successive Cups won't matter as much as the first. Why? Well, the obvious reason:

You can only end the drought in the largest hockey market in the world ONCE. If Shanahan left, came back and won the second, third and fourth after another President won the first, it wouldn't mean as much.

You would think that there would be a sports psychologist who would impress upon the room that salient fact. For some reason it's not apprehended in the way it should be. It's no more properly apprehended than is the idea of building slowly and carefully until we have maximized our considerable resources to a point that would make our acquisition endeavors almost inevitable.

If only every person involved in bringing the Cup back to Toronto had the kind of ego you believe Shanahan to have, we might have had a fanbase, a media center and whatever shadow cabinet moves our management, on board with those interconnected elements and serious about that singularly momentous opportunity that once it happens changes everyone's lives to unthinkable levels.

Shanahan could run for PM and win. Nylander could probably do the same eventually in Sweden. Time would be divided for everyone involved by that championship date. I don't think the scale of the feat has been properly considered or cultivated in the least.

With all due respect to every other club, while meaningful in an absolute sense to those involved, a Cup win in Toronto is worth more. So of course he's holding on for dear life. And he will continue to if realizes what follows IF we win.

 

[The Shadow]

My ego loves the idea of Shanahan being the guy that brought the Cup to Toronto.

Make no mistake, I want the Cup if it means outspending the other competition or outsmarting the league's parameters.

Apart from being a Leafs fan, consider the size of Toronto's market in this sport. Consider our history. When we win -- and I've said this repeatedly -- any successive Cups won't matter as much as the first. Why? Well, the obvious reason:

You can only end the drought in the largest hockey market in the world ONCE. If Shanahan left, came back and won the second, third and fourth after another President won the first, it wouldn't mean as much.

You would think that there would be a sports psychologist who would impress upon the room that salient fact. For some reason it's not apprehended in the way it should be. It's no more properly apprehended than is the idea of building slowly and carefully until we have maximized our considerable resources to a point that would make our acquisition endeavors almost inevitable.

If only every person involved in bringing the Cup back to Toronto had the kind of ego you believe Shanahan to have, we might have had a fanbase, a media center and whatever shadow cabinet moves our management, on board with those interconnected elements and serious about that singularly momentous opportunity that once it happens changes everyone's lives to unthinkable levels.

Shanahan could run for PM and win. Nylander could probably do the same eventually in Sweden. Time would be divided for everyone involved by that championship date. I don't think the scale of the feat has been properly considered or cultivated in the least.

With all due respect to every other club, while meaningful in an absolute sense to those involved, a Cup win in Toronto is worth more. So of course he's holding on for dear life. And he will continue to if realizes what follows IF we win.

Very well said