Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 4-2

[Brown Dog]

He should be bought out. Kampf is a more effective player. I know what this org is going to do, because they spent so much on Laughton they will force feed him throughout the line up to no avail. He should be in the press box or in the minors, or better yet back in Philly.

Can you imagine having a scrub like that and trading him for a first and decent prospect? We'd be talking about that for years.

 

[arso40]

Because the poster asked why his minutes were low and he was awful in his own zone.

That doesn't mean Marner was good, because he wasn't, but when a guy like McMann is doing so many little things wrong, especially in his own zone, you'll see that. Add in Domi playing decent, Robertson too and it's pretty easy to see why

I get it I just don’t agree that his minutes should have been down or that he was the person who should have gotten less minutes

 

[torontoblood]

Let’s be honest, the Leafs are just pretenders. We will never win with these frauds, they have the talent, strong/excellent defensive awareness and skill but lack the character, the tireless work ethic, the grit, the determination, the passion, the mental toughness, the emotional maturity, the killer instinct and the burning desire to win when it matters the most . They’ve never learned from their mistakes of the past seasons and painful experiences in the past playoffs.


They have not progressed since their first season together. At this point we have to accept that this is what they are. They are soft, sheltered, pampered, spoiled, entitled, mentally weak, low energy, and show no assertiveness except during contract extensions and negotiations. They are ruthless mercenaries on the negotiating table but heartless and toothless competitors on the ice.

They never play with a purpose.

We don’t have a coach problem but a core problem. When it comes to the management side of things, yes Dubas was incompetent of course and unfortunately built the team in his image(soft, mentally weak and vanilla) but you can’t blame the new gm treliving for the lackluster performances and disappointing results of this team. Both Tanev and Stolarz, the two best free agent signings of the leafs last summer, were signed by him, and without the excellent contributions and performances of those two this season, the maple leafs would be outside the playoff picture right now.

 

[wingman75]

I don’t care where we are in the standings, having watched almost all of our games this year, we just aren’t good. By far the worst Leafs team in the past 5 seasons. The last 4 seasons we carried the play most games, while this year we look like the weaker team most nights. Hemmed into our own zone more than the other way around, outshot, outskated, outplayed.

I wouldn’t say we’re trash, but we’re thoroughly mediocre, we play like a playoff bubble team that has a better than .500 record mostly due to strong goaltending.

I do think Berube is probably a shit coach for this roster. We’re built to be creative and risk taking in the o-zone, and to defend with a bit more of a high risk pressure style in the d-zone, where we allow some better chances against but tend to win the puck back fast. But under Berube we collapse around the net defensively, so we get hemmed into our own zone constantly, never first to the puck along the boards. And offensively we’re far too cautious/conservative, super predictable out there.

The players are also not playing well, but I think Berube’s style is a poor fit for them.

As for tonight, no Leaf was particularly good, but the standout poor performance was Marner. Overall he’s been our best player this year, this game was an outlier, but man, he was REALLY bad tonight. Bobbling the puck everywhere, terrible turnovers, making nothing happen offensively, the worst regular season game I’ve seen from him in some time.

Management has refused to make the moves that are necessary - breaking up the core - instead they doubled down on the core and were left grasping at straws once they fired Keefe. The answer has been clear for some time, but this management group is so focused on the individual players and all the talk of "where do you get another player like that" they have lost sight of the team and it's goal, which I assume is to win a Stanley Cup.

Absolutely gross from everyone involved to run this back 8 seasons. Embarassing really. Every one of them should be fired. People complain about the culture of the team, what about the culture of the franchise? It's pretty clear they were not willing to do whatever it takes to bring a championship to Toronto.

Imagine wasting an era of Leafs hockey with Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares! So disappointing.

 

[arso40]

Let’s be honest, the Leafs are just pretenders. We will never win with these frauds, they have the talent and skill but lack the character, the mental toughness and the burning desire to win when it matters the most . They’ve never learned from their mistakes and experiences in the playoffs . They have not progressed since their first season together. At this point we have to accept that this is what they are. They are Soft, pampered, spoiled.entitled, mentally weak, low energy, and show no assertiveness

We don’t have a coach problem but a core problem. When it comes to the management side of thins, yes Dubas was incompetent of course and unfortunately build the team in his image(soft and vanilla) but you can’t blame the new gm treliving for the lackluster performances and disappointing results of this team. Both Tanev and Stolarz, the two best free agent signings of the leafs last summer, were signed by him, and without the excellent contributions and performances of those two this season, the maple leafs would be outside the playoff picture right now.

It’ll be fixed after this year which is why I wanted to punt and not spend assets that would greatly improve our team on wasted players no offence to Laughton Hes not worth that Carlo I’d make that trade for again minus minten I would have given up a first and a second for Carlo and kept our 3rd line center of the future that’s just me though I’m not a gm

 

[Divine]

This team desperately needs a defenceman that can shoot.

Absolute muffins from the point. On top of that, we're running the biggest muffin of a shot (Marner) on the point as the forward. No one is worried about Marner's shot from the point.

Colorado has Makar from the point, who won the hardest shot last year. Edmonton has Bouchard on the slot opening up space for McDavid/Drai. We have no one on the slot who's a threat to score so teams just collapse the passing lanes as the chance of you getting beat at the point are very minimal.

 

[arso40]

This team desperately needs a defenceman that can shoot.

Absolute muffins from the point. On top of that, we're running the biggest muffin of a shot (Marner) on the point as the forward. No one is worried about Marner's shot from the point.

Colorado has Makar from the point, who won the hardest shot last year. Edmonton has Bouchard on the slot opening up space for McDavid/Drai. We have no one on the slot who's a threat to score so teams just collapse the passing lanes as the chance of you getting beat at the point are very minimal.

Oel is decent but this team needs a right shot shooter if we’re running it thru Matthews if we’re running it thru Willy then oel will suffice

 

[torontoblood]

I can’t recall Matthews getting visibly excited about anything. He’s low energy, passive, low intensity and seem jaded and indifferent about everything. He goes through the motions. He doesn’t have that fiery and competitive demeanor. Not sure he has it in him. Just the way he’s wired, I guess. It’s certainly not conducive to raising his game or inspiring teammates when it matters most. Tends to come up awfully small and short in the big moments.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Let this be a reminder to grab young players with character and will to win, avoid soft stars

Almost impossible to determine if an 18 year-old player will develop that as a pro, and the best prospects are taught to tell GMs what they want to hear during player interviews.

Results are obviously disappointing--but the product is so boring too! As a diversion, I don't remember Leaf games ever being such a slog to sit through.

Berube was sold as a coach who can instill proper playoff attitude. We'll find out in a month.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

Keep Nylander. Knies.
Find someone to Balance out Matthews.

Move Rielly.
Be very stingy on JTs contract.
Let Marner walk.

These guys are sick of playing together for 8 years.

Time for a divorce that should've happened 3 years ago.

Hey Dubas... Shanny...
F*** YOU.
GET OUT OF THIS CITY.

 

[Divine]

Oel is decent but this team needs a right shot shooter if we’re running it thru Matthews if we’re running it thru Willy then oel will suffice

OEL is decent at moving the puck but he doesn't have a strong shot. He hasn't scored 10 goals since 2019 on a bad Arizona team.

We just need someone who's a threat to score from the point so that when we pass it to the point the opposing players need to come out to challenge the shooter. That spreads the forwards on the opposing PK and creates space for the forwards to make a play.

Right now there's no space in front of the net because no one is scared of being beaten from the point. Our forwards have minimal space in front of the net because everyone is collapsed and our PP looks worse than 5v5.

 

[torontoblood]

This team desperately needs a defenceman that can shoot.

Absolute muffins from the point. On top of that, we're running the biggest muffin of a shot (Marner) on the point as the forward. No one is worried about Marner's shot from the point.

Colorado has Makar from the point, who won the hardest shot last year. Edmonton has Bouchard on the slot opening up space for McDavid/Drai. We have no one on the slot who's a threat to score so teams just collapse the passing lanes as the chance of you getting beat at the point are very minimal.

We lack a true all situation/Norris caliber #1 D with powerplay quarterback ability and two other defensemen who are mobile, who are able to move the puck up ice and generate offense from the back end. Our defense is slow, lacks mobility somewhat and is limited offensively except OEL and Rielly, and the latter was supposed to be the best offensive defenseman on the team with the biggest shot of but he sucks at generating offense and running the power play because he has tunnel vision, not so fluid and fast skating, below average positioning and mediocre hockey sense. On the other hand, OEL does the smart plays at the right time, he can move the puck, he can help on the transition game and generate offense but doesn’t have a very strong and powerful shot from the point.

People who believe that rielly is close to kaberle as an offensive defenseman are delusional. They’re not the same type of players. They have different strengths and weaknesses, and each player played with their own style.

 

[Leafs98]

Couple more losses in a row and I might be chearing for them to lose. A fitting end to the core. Cant get the season over quick enough now.

 

[Blanka]

 

[arso40]

We lack a true all situation/Norris caliber #1 D ego with powerplay quarterback ability and two other defensemen who are able to move the puck up ice and generate offense from the back end. Our defense is slow and limited offensively. Rielly is supposed to be the best offensive defenseman on the team but he sucks at generating offense and running the power play.

Crazy right it should be his strength and hes not on the ice should say a lot id move heaven and earth for dahlin n to a lesser extent buddy on the islanders

 

[Divine]

We lack a true all situation/Norris caliber #1 D ego with powerplay quarterback ability and two other defensemen who are able to move the puck up ice and generate offense from the back end. Our defense is slow and limited offensively except OEL and Rielly, and the latter is supposed to be the best offensive defenseman on the team but he sucks at generating offense and running the power play.

That would be ideal but you're not likely to get that player in a trade. We don't even have 1st round picks so we can accidentally hit on a stud D.

At this point the only realistic scenario is to find a D that's not great defensively but can put up points and use him as a PP specialist. Essentially what Edmonton is doing with Bouchard.

Colorado couldn't even make the playoffs until they got Makar yet somehow people think MacKinnon is the star of that team.

Makar is making plays like this and people think MacKinnon is the franchise player because he scored the goal.

 

[wingman75]

Almost impossible to determine if an 18 year-old player will develop that as a pro, and the best prospects are taught to tell GMs what they want to hear during player interviews.

Berube was sold as a coach who can instill proper playoff attitude. We'll find out in a month.

Find out... you are being generous. There is no switch in the NHL. You either play that way or you don't. I would even argue the Leafs have played their playoff best the last two games and it looked exactly the same as seasons past. There is nothing left to craft from a coaches pov imo. They are what they are.

 

[torontoblood]

That would be ideal but you're not likely to get that player in a trade. We don't even have 1st round picks so we can accidentally hit on a stud D.

At this point the only realistic scenario is to find a D that's not great defensively but can put up points and use him as a PP specialist. Essentially what Edmonton is doing with Bouchard.

Colorado couldn't even make the playoffs until they got Makar yet somehow people think MacKinnon is the star of that team.

Makar is making plays like this and people think MacKinnon is the franchise player because he scored the goal.

True. Elite two-way Defensemen such as Makar and Lidstrom can only be obtained in the draft. It’s impossible to get them through trade and if they ever hit free agency, they usually re-sign with the same team.

 

[jcs0218]

Winning 4 games out of 7, four separate times against the likes of:

Round 1 = Florida / Tampa Bay
Round 2 = Florida / Tampa Bay
Round 3 = Washington / Carolina
Round 4 = Dallas / Vegas / Winnipeg / Colorado

It may seem difficult.

But it is definitely doable, as long as:

1. Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Tavares all play to their capabilities
2. They get timely depth goal-scoring from Knies, Domi, Laughton, and McMann
3. They tighten up their defensive structure and intensity
4. Stolarz and Woll play above their contract values

This is all that would need to happen for the Maple Leafs to win the Stanley Cup.

 

[Divine]

Winning 4 games out of 7, four separate times against the likes of:

Round 1 = Florida / Tampa Bay
Round 2 = Florida / Tampa Bay
Round 3 = Washington / Carolina
Round 4 = Dallas / Vegas / Winnipeg / Colorado

It may seem difficult.

But it is definitely doable, as long as:

1. Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Tavares all play to their capabilities
2. They get timely depth goal-scoring from Knies, Domi, Laughton, and McMann
3. They tighten up their defensive structure and intensity
4. Stolarz and Woll play above their contract values

This is all that would need to happen for the Maple Leafs to win the Stanley Cup.

If Matthews can return to health that's their best shot.

Of course the one year where the Leafs play their best hockey as a team we lose our top 2 goalscorers for multiple games in the first round. This team might actually be cursed.

 

[arso40]

Winning 4 games out of 7, four separate times against the likes of:

Round 1 = Florida / Tampa Bay
Round 2 = Florida / Tampa Bay
Round 3 = Washington / Carolina
Round 4 = Dallas / Vegas / Winnipeg / Colorado

It may seem difficult.

But it is definitely doable, as long as:

1. Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Tavares all play to their capabilities
2. They get timely depth goal-scoring from Knies, Domi, Laughton, and McMann
3. They tighten up their defensive structure and intensity
4. Stolarz and Woll play above their contract values

This is all that would need to happen for the Maple Leafs to win the Stanley Cup.

We need a lot to go right A LOT

 

[3blizzard4]

Winning 4 games out of 7, four separate times against the likes of:

Round 1 = Florida / Tampa Bay
Round 2 = Florida / Tampa Bay
Round 3 = Washington / Carolina
Round 4 = Dallas / Vegas / Winnipeg / Colorado

It may seem difficult.

But it is definitely doable, as long as:

1. Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Tavares all play to their capabilities
2. They get timely depth goal-scoring from Knies, Domi, Laughton, and McMann
3. They tighten up their defensive structure and intensity
4. Stolarz and Woll play above their contract values

This is all that would need to happen for the Maple Leafs to win the Stanley Cup.

That's it?

 

[Gabriel426]

Sometime being bad is the beginning of being good, lol.

Honestly, I think unless they go to the finals, this current Leafs core will be going their separate ways.

 

[1specter]

Pro scouting needs to be cleaned out. They have no idea what they are doing.

 

[mikeyz]

Can’t wait till they sign Marner to a ridiculous contract…

I'm getting to the point where I might be done with this team for the foreseeable future if this happens. Especially if they lose in the 1st round again and Marner is non existent and disappears in the series.