Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 2-1

[Lainehasaweirdface]

I understand your point. I see him grab loose pucks with his speed, only to cough it up again when an opponent sets his sights on him.
Trust me, I want him to succeed, he is a talented player, but his effort level is not consistent from shift to shift.
Maybe I am too hard on him, but with that paycheck, I expect a hell of a lot more.

Imo his contract is a bargain for what he brings. I just don't think you need a team that's communist china where every player fits the same mold. He can be frustrating at times like his fly by on Lehkonen in the corner last night and he could be so much better if he took players to the boards in those situations. But I think ya gotta see the forest for the trees here and take the good with the bad. The good massively outweighs the bad. At least he didn't double flamingo on the the shot he blocked at the point last night lol. Baby steps!

 

[Captain14]

Can't see a team with Petan, Engvall, Vesey, Soup, Boyd and Spezza in it's top 12 winning anything.

I hear ya. But don’t forget, Simmonds, Robertson and Thornton would replace three of them.
I have no problem with Spezza, the other five are not good.

 

[rumman]

Were 11-3-1 with a very productive second line and solid bottom 6 (that Zeke just showed) that has dealt with injuries most of the year.

I want that JT/Nylander line to elevate to PPG territory because they're capable, not because that's expected of a second line.

No doubt the Leafs have been having a good season, be it in a very weak division, but my point was quality of the team’s depth is comprised by 4 players taking up too much cap space imo.

 

[Gallagbi]

No doubt the Leafs have been having a good season, be it in a very weak division, but my point was quality of the team’s depth is comprised by 4 players taking up too much cap space imo.

And a productive bottom 6 that is outproducing their salaries through injuries.

 

[zeke]

No doubt the Leafs have been having a good season, be it in a very weak division, but my point was quality of the team’s depth is comprised by 4 players taking up too much cap space imo.

Your problem is to prove your argument about depth production you use a capspace argument instead of looking at....actual production.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

The guy has good size, yet some people single out Willy as soft (okay, rightfully so *sometimes*) but I think Engvall is even softer with no finish.

I probably don’t even want him on the taxi squad. Anderson is more my liking. Sabourine can play 4 th line. The guy is defensively aware. You get some bang. Better than Engvall again. He’s useless if all he can do is skate. Yellow, just yellow not soft.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Gallagher is great, but if JT needs someone like him to get going why is he the captain making 11M?

Chemistry.... jam,.... presence I don’t know a player that can play alone do you

 

[Trapper]

No doubt the Leafs have been having a good season, be it in a very weak division, but my point was quality of the team’s depth is comprised by 4 players taking up too much cap space imo.

First order of business is for the core 4 to prove they show up dominant and intense come playoff time.
No team in the Canadian division should touch them with their skill and average goaltending. If they can’t win a playoff round this year, who cares about depth.

No Vesey or Thornton is the reason.

 

[Stephen]

First order of business is for the core 4 to prove they show up dominant and intense come playoff time.
No team in the Canadian division should touch them with their skill and average goaltending. If they can’t win a playoff round this year, who cares about depth.

No Vesey or Thornton is the reason.

I'm not reacting to last night's loss, but as a general comment, if the Big 4 were able to bring that Brayden Point energy into high traffic areas, we'd be in the conference finals.

 

[Machinae]

Wasn't able to catch the 3rd, but from the first two periods I thought it was a miracle the Leafs weren't up by 5 or so goals.

 

[Trapper]

I'm not reacting to last night's loss, but as a general comment, if the Big 4 were able to bring that Brayden Point energy into high traffic areas, we'd be in the conference finals.

no team in this division should touch us.
Or stop us.

if they fall apart, the trouble is the core. Unless it’s clear that every second shot against us is going in the net.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Sadly this is the depth you get when so much of your cap goes to 4 players, more so when 2 of said 4 aren’t pulling their weight...........

So what do you do? I’ll guess what you are thinking here

Trade Nylander,Rielly,Kerfoot and Engvall. $17,000,000. Two are replaced internally kerf and Engvall. I think you could add a heap of grit for that collection if you choose to remove your softest players. Does anyone agree they ate the softest players beyond me?I don’t know.
here comes the flak ha

I only popped up that scenario from my perspective. You likely don’t agree.

 

[Menzinger]

Your problem is to prove your argument about depth production you use a capspace argument instead of looking at....actual production.

A persistent myth is that salary in the bottom 6 = quality.

When the league is filled with guys on the lower lines making lots of money and still perform like rubbish.

 

[Machinae]

So what do you do? I’ll guess what you are thinking here

Trade Nylander,Rielly,Kerfoot and Engvall. $17,000,000. Two are replaced internally kerf and Engvall. I think you could add a heap of grit for that collection if you choose to remove your softest players. Does anyone agree they ate the softest players beyond me?I don’t know.
here comes the flak ha

I only popped up that scenario from my perspective. You likely don’t agree.

Am I dreaming or are the Leafs like 10-3 and only just lost a one goal game to a good goalie? Fire sale time indeed.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Wasn't able to catch the 3rd, but from the first two periods I thought it was a miracle the Leafs weren't up by 5 or so goals.

because it was a miracle. They scored on 2 breakdowns that were just complete mental gaps. The leafs had plentty of chances to win the game prior to those goals, and realistically should not have mattered that MTL scored 2. MTL was gift wrapped an opportunity to steal 2 pts, and they did just that. They were the better team in the 3rd, got a couple fortunate bounces on a handful of leaf breakdowns and that was the real difference in the game. But truth be told, those breakdowns and subsequent goals shouldn't have even been a factor, they should have been nursing a 3 goal lead by then. Similar to our win 1 week ago against the Canucks, you cannot leave teams hanging around.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Am I dreaming or are the Leafs like 10-3 and only just lost a one goal game to a good goalie? Fire sale time indeed.

I was responding to rumman who thinks our depth is taking a hit because of to much salary cap at forward in the top 4.
Nothing to do with a one game loss for me. Forward thinking is good. Don’t think one game win or loss. Just think forward and what might happen.

 

[Machinae]

I was responding to rumman who thinks our depth is taking a hit because of to much salary cap at forward in the top 4.
Nothing to do with a one game loss for me. Forward thinking is good. Don’t think one game win or loss. Just think forward and what might happen.

I think, just like how the Brodie signing knocked everyone down a slot where they needed to be and solidified the D, the forward group just needs one add on wing that knocks everyone down a line and really solidifies the group. Maybe after that a super cheap energy/hitter player for the bottom 6. Nothing that requires moving Nylander and Kerfoot. Those are offseason moves.

 

[rumman]

Your problem is to prove your argument about depth production you use a capspace argument instead of looking at....actual production.

I'm not the one with the problem, the Leafs cap allocation is the problem.

 

[stuart5035]

I probably don’t even want him on the taxi squad. Anderson is more my liking. Sabourine can play 4 th line. The guy is defensively aware. You get some bang. Better than Engvall again. He’s useless if all he can do is skate. Yellow, just yellow not soft.

I agree, it’s a reincarnation of Gauthier, big and oh so soft. We seem to corner the market on these types.

For me, last nights game reinforced this-I was angry from the moment onward that Joel Armia plastered Austin Matthews, no retaliation from anyone! You don’t do that to a teams star player without pushback. Reports say that Matthew’s is hurting now.

And now I read about the hits, something like 45 by the Habs and about 15.

Embarrassed that the Habs physically punished us

 

[Sypher04]

Columbus shed those quality players before last season began and were expected to be absolutely terrible, they had even worse injury issues then we did ( they even led the NHL in that category IIRC) yet they had roughly the same record we did. So it's not just 5 games, that's 70 where they played us even before taking us out in the playoffs where it matters most.

I was addressing him talking about them bouncing us in the playin round when I said 5 games. And he dragged in their past playoff successes (as in the ones pre last summer) which I stand by don't mean much given how much turn over their team has seen. We also have clearly shown we've taken a step this year while Columbus' offseason yet again was them moving out or losing more players with the exception of the Anderson trade where they got Domi back at least. And they just lost PLD who was a huge part of their win against us last summer. Who knows yet how Laine fits

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Columbus shed those quality players before last season began and were expected to be absolutely terrible, they had even worse injury issues then we did ( they even led the NHL in that category IIRC) yet they had roughly the same record we did. So it's not just 5 games, that's 70 where they played us even before taking us out in the playoffs where it matters most.

PIT had it the worst. Columbus wasn't that bad outside of losing Jones for 15 games. They lost Bjorkstrand and Atkinson but that doesn't compare to our injuries on the back end and our depth.

We also had to deal with 20 games of crap under Babcock, which was the main reason they were even close.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I agree, it’s a reincarnation of Gauthier, big and oh so soft. We seem to corner the market on these types.

For me, last nights game reinforced this-I was angry from the moment onward that Joel Armia plastered Austin Matthews, no retaliation from anyone! You don’t do that to a teams star player without pushback. Reports say that Matthew’s is hurting now.

And now I read about the hits, something like 45 by the Habs and about 15.

Embarrassed that the Habs physically punished us

You can get penalty killers with jam. They should be in your bottom 6. First argument is Engvall is a good penalty killer. I’ve had it with him. I don’t call it soft anymore. I call him yellow. Nobody should get a touch on Matthews. Nobody replying is weak. Marshy put up a awesome link about a week ago showing that no matter how dirty or possession disabled a team is they can cheat and grind their way to even on penalties in this league.
You are better off with a nasty semi undisciplined team that works the other team over. Soft teams are running a double disadvantage in that they get hammered and the refs don’t call it.I’ll get you the link if you’d like a read. Being soft and fair gets you nowhere and it’s completely based on a large sample size of stats.
Building a soft team is counter productive. Bad management does soft teams.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

And now I read about the hits, something like 45 by the Habs and about 15.

Embarrassed that the Habs physically punished us

Maybe instead if reading about it, you should watch the actual game. They did not physically punish us. They were chasing us for the vast majority of the game, and we had the puck so often that we didn't even have opportunities to generate hits. I think we actually out hit them in the 3rd, and that was the point we started to lose.

 

[Sypher04]

Highly debatable? They have qualified and won multiple playoff rounds coming out of the Metro

They have been better than EVERY North team over recent seasons and it isn't even close

Columbus beat us and had a vary comparable record with a pretty similar team last season, that's a fact

Comparing success in the playoffs is a fools game mostly because teams don't take the same paths. Also, playoff success doesn't inherently indicate a team to be a harder out in a regular season game. It also ignores moves made by teams throughout the ensuing offseason that change the make up of teams being compared. It also ignores results so far in a current season (albeit a relatively small sample).

I said it's highly debatable because it in fact is exactly that.

Columbus beat us and had a comparable record, yeah. I never said otherwise

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Your problem is to prove your argument about depth production you use a capspace argument instead of looking at....actual production.

I have a different perspective to both production and depth and cap. We have a lead last night,we have a possession game rolling smoothly,Montreal is chasing. They are battling,they are hungry,they are desperate and they are playing good positionally to keep us from getting a second goal.
They are hammering anyone they can with no response. Keefe is on the bench watching the game get away. Watching the possession slip,watching Montreal hang in there.
Insert here Keefe missing Simmonds)

There is a time when you want to get on their defense and pound them down with your bottom 6. We still don’t have the people that do that for you. Engvall,Vesey,Kerfoot,Petan,Boyd and Spezza. That bottom 6 does nothing for slowing them down.
You need a crunching bottom 6.
Thats not a depth problem as much as its a composition problem.
Keefe couldn’t play a short dump and grind and hit and cycling game if he wanted to.
Sabourine,Anderson are there. Them two will be in the lineup if this management has a clue at all. Plus they will add more nasty and get rid of the Nannies we have bottom 6