Post-Game Talk: Leafs 4 B's 3 SO

[BNHL]

Yes the ice time was an issue. They all played 18+ minutes because it was an overtime game.

Otherwise they would be at 15-16 minutes over the course of 60 and that's not enough....especially when the team doesn't have a good 4th line like in years past.

Same thing at the center position. Gregory Campbell is not an effective NHL player anymore. He should not play 11 minutes (I think all in regulation) when you have 3 good / very good centers. I don't want to pick on Campbell but what does he really offer? Last night he got worked at the face-off dot, he's not fast, he's not gifted offensively, he's not intimidating or a big hitter, he doesn't set up plays. etc..

Wondering if they can gage the effectiveness of a player versus his minutes,like they do with pitchers.

 

[LouisSleigher]

Remember when Paille and Campbell were good at puck possession?

Wish I knew what happened to them.

 

[ODAAT]

Yes the ice time was an issue. They all played 18+ minutes because it was an overtime game.

Otherwise they would be at 15-16 minutes over the course of 60 and that's not enough....especially when the team doesn't have a good 4th line like in years past.

Same thing at the center position. Gregory Campbell is not an effective NHL player anymore. He should not play 11 minutes (I think all in regulation) when you have 3 good / very good centers. I don't want to pick on Campbell but what does he really offer? Last night he got worked at the face-off dot, he's not fast, he's not gifted offensively, he's not intimidating or a big hitter, he doesn't set up plays. etc..

yet in this NHL, teams who have a 4th line who can play often wear opponents down, we have seen a distinct move by virtually every team to work on reshaping their organizational attitude to have a 4th they can put out on the ice in order to give their other lines a chance to rest

Look at the Hawks as an example, typically, outside of Carcillo, their 4th typically plays 10+ minutes. Have a peek at their last game vs the Preds (which was a blast to watch), Toews, Hossa and Kane all over 20 mins with their special teams minutes being 9mins, 8 + and 6 respectively, you take away the special teams aspect and the Hawks top dawgs getting right around the same as the B`s

Difference is, they often light the lamp. I`d move Campbell out with little issue, but I didn`t see him when the B`s needed the goal most last night out there unless I missed it or if he was out there, it must have been for an exceptionally brief moment, saw little from the 4th line in the 3rd but you might have the stats for that as I can`t be bothered right now

 

[Elmer]

I saw Wally mention it earlier and it bugs the hell out of me too,lack of urgency on line changes. GTFO the ice already!

You are spot on. Especially, at the end of a shift, watch Marchand or Lucicc after a full shift. They both lift their stick when they are 20 yards from the bench, stop skating and coast to the bench. Other teams, Toronto, Detroit, Montreal, sprint to the bench. I understand those 3 teams have much faster skaters than Boston, but part of it is desire and will to win. It just isn't there consistently and I blame the coach for the majority of it.

But what drives me more nuts i when a D man or carries the puck to the blue line and blindly dumps it in because they have had it drilled into their head by Claude that defense is good and offense is bad. Same is true with the offensive lines. Ryan Spooner or any younger, offensively gifted player is not going to take any offensive risk when they see how Julian publicly called out Ryan Spooner for a defensive lapse in a meaningless pre-season game. Spooner is in AHL purgatory and will probably never be called back up because Julian took Spooner's mistake personally.
Also, why would any UFA sniper come here after seeing what went down and also reading about how they publicly trashed Seguin before kicking him to the curb?

 

[ODAAT]

Remember when Paille and Campbell were good at puck possession?

Wish I knew what happened to them.

They were good at puck pursuit and board battles, I don`t recall much in the way of solid "possession"

Paille is the key with his speed and he hasn`t looked a bit like the Paille we have watched over the years

 

[C77]

Wondering if they can gage the effectiveness of a player versus his minutes,like they do with pitchers.

I think there would be a drop off if you're playing a winger 20+ minutes a night on a regular basis.

I don't understand what is Julien's approach here. Apparently we can't fit a forward(s) into our system that don't play a 200 ft game....and the team wants to have a depth approach...which means no real marquee "go to guy".

So we have the depth in the top 3 lines but the team doesn't make use of it.....Why not play all of Bergeron, Krejci, and Soderberg 18 minutes? They continue to give significant minutes to marginal players that aren't effective.

 

[BNHL]

You are spot on. Especially, at the end of a shift, watch Marchand or Lucicc after a full shift. They both lift their stick when they are 20 yards from the bench, stop skating and coast to the bench. Other teams, Toronto, Detroit, Montreal, sprint to the bench. I understand those 3 teams have much faster skaters than Boston, but part of it is desire and will to win. It just isn't there consistently and I blame the coach for the majority of it.

But what drives me more nuts i when a D man or carries the puck to the blue line and blindly dumps it in because they have had it drilled into their head by Claude that defense is good and offense is bad. Same is true with the offensive lines. Ryan Spooner or any younger, offensively gifted player is not going to take any offensive risk when they see how Julian publicly call out Ryan Spooner for a defensive lapse in a meaningless pre-season game?
Why would any UFA sniper come here after seeing this going down and also reading about how they publicly trashed Seguin before kicking him to the curb?

I'll stick with the lack of urgency the players show on line changes which also appears on icing retrievals on expiring powerplays or the opposing defenseman standing behind his net waiting for his players to set up and a Bruin just standing in front of the net. Force the effin play!!!

 

[RedeyeRocketeer]

Wow I wasn't expecting the rage in here tonight, I thought the comeback was excellent, and in a "real" game we win that in OT. We lost the skills comp.

Btw folks, Bergeron is 0/3 in shootouts this year, Claude wanted to try something new...

I love the Krug addition. If it's me next time I go:

1) Krug
2) Eriksson
3) Krejci

Krejci will get his hands back with a bit of practice

 

[The Special K]

Honestly, I feel like CJ is doing a big solid to other teams by playing the 4th line as much as he does.....cause.....well, they kinda suck. I would like to see them around the 9 minute mark and not the 10-12 minute mark.

But that is not the main reason we are losing....Bad defense is. The first goal was bad coverage. The second was bad defensive decision making. well...the third goal was just Kessel doing what Kessel does (and no bruin can seem to do....SNIPE).

 

[C77]

My problem with this loss is that Toronto has shown it can beat good teams this year. They are inconsistent but when they are on their game they have beaten good competition.

The Bruins have generally beaten the teams they should beat but are running out of those games. They are going to have to significantly elevate their play over the rest of the season and they are going to have to do it on the road and against the elite teams to make up the points difference. If the B's can't beat Toronto at home with all hands on deck, what will this team do against Chicago + St. Louis on the road when they likely will have a least a couple of injuries?

I thought Chara coming back would really solidify the Top 4 and the Bruins might go on a run but as of right now that hasn't happened. Chara hasn't made a major difference and Seidenberg still needs to play better. We might be able to add a defenseman but it doesn't mean much if the guys we have in house don't step up their games.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Yes it is a gimmick but it shows the skill of your players. Some guys just get up there and totally fake out a goalie and the goalie doesn't even move. The good ones don't do any zig zag or what ever. They go forward and either roof it, slide it between the pads , or shoot. All this is done quickly with no effort. To me effort is the the key. You can see most of the scorers finish with ease. That's skill. It seems like the b's don't have an idea on what to do, and they can't adjust on the fly. All this is a skill thing to me.

Couple of things:

1) Shootouts display "practice skill". It's not a game situation, nobody is chasing you, trying to take the puck away, knock your head off, etc. and the B's skill players seem to be better "in game".

2) I have no idea what you mean about effort and going straight in? Have you ever watched Kane in the SO? He's all zig-zag, change of pace, and movement. Datsyuk? The good ones typically have a bunch of moves and keep the goalies guessing.

While the SO does display some skills, it's hardly the defining factor. If you are the TOR coach, I'm pretty sure that you want Kessel on the ice if you need a goal in the final minute, even though he's passed over in the SO for Bozak and Santorelli.

 

[CptxMorgan]

Wow I wasn't expecting the rage in here tonight, I thought the comeback was excellent, and in a "real" game we win that in OT. We lost the skills comp.

Btw folks, Bergeron is 0/3 in shootouts this year, Claude wanted to try something new...

I love the Krug addition. If it's me next time I go:

1) Krug
2) Eriksson
3) Krejci

Krejci will get his hands back with a bit of practice

Krejci has never been the shootout type. Soderberg would be a beast, I think.

 

[RedeyeRocketeer]

Krejci has never been the shootout type. Soderberg would be a beast, I think.

2011: 5/10 for 50%
2012: 1/4 for 25%
2013: 0/5 for 0%

Certainly last year sunk him. But he showed some promise in 2011. Wonder where that guy went.

 

[DKH]

Couple of things:

1) Shootouts display "practice skill". It's not a game situation, nobody is chasing you, trying to take the puck away, knock your head off, etc. and the B's skill players seem to be better "in game".

2) I have no idea what you mean about effort and going straight in? Have you ever watched Kane in the SO? He's all zig-zag, change of pace, and movement. Datsyuk? The good ones typically have a bunch of moves and keep the goalies guessing.

While the SO does display some skills, it's hardly the defining factor. If you are the TOR coach, I'm pretty sure that you want Kessel on the ice if you need a goal in the final minute, even though he's passed over in the SO for Bozak and Santorelli.

many of the best shoot out guys I've seen like Datsyk, Letang, Parise, Elias do change of pace, zig zag, basically get the goalie to start consciously thinking and not reacting

NJ sucks recently but I remember one time watching Kovlachuk, Elias, and Parise coming at us in the shoot out and thinking- this is not fair

 

[bruinsfan1970]

I would of liked to of seen Bergy in the shoot-out but for some reason,we didn't

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

What about when the team was average (or worse) in 2010 and he posted a .931 SV % and GAA under 2?

What about it?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Great game from Tuukka. Stole a point for us. Not sure what we were doing the first period and a half. Can't sleepwalk through a full 30 minutes straight like that.

This needs an explanation. Or a new definition of "stole a point".

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

First off, Happy New Year to everyone!

Toronto is the highest scoring team in the league so they can make the opposition's defense look bad. Still, with or without Boychuk, I thought the defense would be better than that.

I don't think there was a single defenseman that played at a high level for long stretches of that game. A few of them got overmatched down low, others made young player mistakes, and the older guys got burned with speed.

Then, when Boston dominated play they couldn't get a goal in the 3rd period or OT against one of the worst defensive teams in the league. You could see they tried but for the most part Toronto was able to keep the puck out of the real dangerous areas. There weren't many shots from the slot and a couple times, when they were able to move the puck side to side in front of the net, I think Phaneuf and maybe Holzer were able to break it up.

I don't think the group of forwards is great, but I also don't think Julien is getting the most out of them.

Not pleased with the line combinations....in the 3rd period you have Krejci putting on a Harlem Grobetrotters routine in the offensive zone...but Lucic needs to be spoonfed on the doorstop to put the puck in the net and Griffith isn't ready for top line duty...plus with Krejci + Griffith together you have two smaller guys and you won't have that much puck possession....so you sort of waste your best playmaker chasing the play.

Julien should have shortened the bench at the RW position....Both Smith + Eriksson have played well lately and should have gotten a ton of minutes and then Julien could divide the remainder between Griffith and Cunningham. Unfortunately Julien only shortens the bench when a guy like Koko comes up that he doesn't trust....and who does he give more ice time to? Bottom six guys like Kelly, Campbell and Gagné.

I don't understand Julien's fixation with keeping the lines the same. You have a relatively high number of quality players at the forward position....Lucic, Krejci, Eriksson, Bergeron, Marchand, Soderberg, Smith....7 guys that can play in a Top 6 role....why not mix and match them every now and then? Why not feed them more minutes when they play well? You can put your opposition off-balance if you come out one shift with a heavy line like Lucic - Soderberg - Eriksson and then the next with more speed and puck handling like Marchand - Krejci - Smith. And then you adjust based on how they play together and what the opposition is doing.

You couldn't ask for a healthier team at this point in the season than what Boston put on the ice last night and they couldn't get the job done at home against an average team.

So I think we see unfortunately how close the line between winning and losing is with the departure of a few players and decline in performance of others. I think we have a team that is just a bit above average right now.

That about sums it up.

No Dman had a good game. And Hamilton's game was especially atrocious.

 

[Era of Sanity]

With the position they are in they have to win games like that, on home ice vs. the Leafs.

Were awful for the better part of the first 2 periods, terrible puck management and passing, got 2 lucky bounces to even be tied. Took over the game form the late second on and could not score on their legit scoring chances, disappointing result. Chara and Seids were pretty bad, Bergy had an uneven game.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Yes the ice time was an issue. They all played 18+ minutes because it was an overtime game.

Otherwise they would be at 15-16 minutes over the course of 60 and that's not enough....especially when the team doesn't have a good 4th line like in years past.

Same thing at the center position. Gregory Campbell is not an effective NHL player anymore. He should not play 11 minutes (I think all in regulation) when you have 3 good / very good centers. I don't want to pick on Campbell but what does he really offer? Last night he got worked at the face-off dot, he's not fast, he's not gifted offensively, he's not intimidating or a big hitter, he doesn't set up plays. etc..

How much of that was on the PK?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

You are spot on. Especially, at the end of a shift, watch Marchand or Lucicc after a full shift. They both lift their stick when they are 20 yards from the bench, stop skating and coast to the bench. Other teams, Toronto, Detroit, Montreal, sprint to the bench. I understand those 3 teams have much faster skaters than Boston, but part of it is desire and will to win. It just isn't there consistently and I blame the coach for the majority of it.

But what drives me more nuts i when a D man or carries the puck to the blue line and blindly dumps it in because they have had it drilled into their head by Claude that defense is good and offense is bad. Same is true with the offensive lines. Ryan Spooner or any younger, offensively gifted player is not going to take any offensive risk when they see how Julian publicly called out Ryan Spooner for a defensive lapse in a meaningless pre-season game. Spooner is in AHL purgatory and will probably never be called back up because Julian took Spooner's mistake personally.
Also, why would any UFA sniper come here after seeing what went down and also reading about how they publicly trashed Seguin before kicking him to the curb?

Don't even know how to respond to this.

Honestly, thought of a dozen different comments but none could do it justice.

 

[Braunbaer]

2011: 5/10 for 50%
2012: 1/4 for 25%
2013: 0/5 for 0%

Certainly last year sunk him. But he showed some promise in 2011. Wonder where that guy went.

Maybe it has something to do with him almost always doing the same move.

 

[Flannelman]

Also, Linblad and Trotman sent down.

 

[NiftyWasNasty]

Also, Linblad and Trotman sent down.

I wonder why they are sending down the 7th D??

Quaider back soon??
Trade??
Ice time for Trotman??
Cap logistics??

Hmmm...

 

[Flannelman]

I wonder why they are sending down the 7th D??

Quaider back soon??
Trade??
Ice time for Trotman??
Cap logistics??

Hmmm...

think McQ has been practicing the last couple of days. I'll give him 37 days before his next injury.