LD Zeev Buium - University of Denver, NCAA (2024, 12th, MIN)

[William H Bonney]

I’ll make an official prediction for 6’ 0.75” at the combine.

You're in trouble if he's 6'0.5"

 

[Juxtaposer]

You're in trouble if he's 6'0.5"

If the price is wrong, the floor drops out under me, right?

 

[rt]

6’0.5” (+/- 0.75”)

 

[S E P H]

Great player, but skating is very meh.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

really like the player, seems to ooze hockey sense. but.. methinks he's getting overrated at this point. i like him in range of 10, not top 5 that he seems to be flirting with.

 

[rt]

Great player, but skating is very meh.

I think he’s a very good “skater”. Very effective. He’s got an ugly stride and lacks separation speed. His straight line speed isn’t great. And those things do matter. But he does a ton with his feet that makes his “skating” good in my eyes. Great in small areas, quick bursts, change of speed and direction, and through players. Elusive and quick. Not exactly fast or powerful. But he’s plenty strong. And I think all of these things make up “skating”. He’s like the Cole Perfetti of defense. Haha.

 

[2014nyr]

I think he’s a very good “skater”. Very effective. He’s got an ugly stride and lacks separation speed. His straight line speed isn’t great. And those things do matter. But he does a ton with his feet that makes his “skating” good in my eyes. Great in small areas, quick bursts, change of speed and direction, and through players. Elusive and quick. Not exactly fast or powerful. But he’s plenty strong. And I think all of these things make up “skating”. He’s like the Cole Perfetti of defense. Haha.

agree. so few people understand how to look at skating. they see an unorthodox stride, especially on a player who doesn't regularly skate circles around their competition and they tag them as a poor skater. i agree with everything you said about his skating. he's also got several other major strengths to his game that complement his skating.

the bigger picture is there's a stigma about labeling someone a poor skater as being prohibitive in terms of whether or not a player has any chance of being a good nhl'er. while that can be true, that label needs to be applied accurately to have any meaning. what it really comes down to is looking at skating ability in terms of how they play the game. it's all about whether or not your skating ability will permit the game you play to translate. like there's a lot of smaller forwards who dominate play in juniors and rack up points that look like good skaters there, but it's nowhere near the level they'd need it to be to play that style in the nhl...or it is but they don't have a brain that will process the game fast enough at that level.

when you watch this kid, it's pretty clear his skating ability is not at all prohibitive to whether or not his game translates. he's not a poor skater at all to begin with, but he also doesn't play a game that is dependent on having elite speed to be effective.

 

[Sonk]

Gotta say, these last two post have restored my faith in HF. Well said @rt and @2014nyr.

Too many times I see skating evaluated, essentially, on “how fast can they go” and nothing else. Completely ignoring how functional the skating really is.

I like the case of Silayev - gets around the ice very well (especially for a big man), and his skating style should translate well to his defensive game - long, wide, rangy - should be able to close gaps, kill plays, and defend the rush quite nicely.

However, I had this debate just last night, the plus skating that everyone reads about is often used to argue that it will be a big asset in creating offence. Which I just don’t see. The way he skates probably isn’t transferable to creating time and space offensively, or even losing forecheckers on puck retrievals. He’s just not dynamic enough for that - and there’s nothing wrong with that, his skating won’t prohibit playing in the NHL, he’s just strong in different areas of skating.

Bottom line, it’s not a black and white skill to evaluate. And as you guys said, it’s important to look at how it translates with the style they play.

 

[De Montreal]

great player but name bothers me it doesn’t sound like a star

 

[BKarchitect]

great player but name bothers me it doesn’t sound like a star

Disagree “Zeev” is a total star name!

 

[95snipes]

Gotta say, these last two post have restored my faith in HF. Well said @rt and @2014nyr.

Too many times I see skating evaluated, essentially, on “how fast can they go” and nothing else. Completely ignoring how functional the skating really is.

I like the case of Silayev - gets around the ice very well (especially for a big man), and his skating style should translate well to his defensive game - long, wide, rangy - should be able to close gaps, kill plays, and defend the rush quite nicely.

However, I had this debate just last night, the plus skating that everyone reads about is often used to argue that it will be a big asset in creating offence. Which I just don’t see. The way he skates probably isn’t transferable to creating time and space offensively, or even losing forecheckers on puck retrievals. He’s just not dynamic enough for that - and there’s nothing wrong with that, his skating won’t prohibit playing in the NHL, he’s just strong in different areas of skating.

Bottom line, it’s not a black and white skill to evaluate. And as you guys said, it’s important to look at how it translates with the style they play.

But that's exactly the argument against Buium. I don't think too many people think his skating is so prohibitive that he won't be an NHLer. He's an offensive defenseman and there are folks out there with Buium as the top defenseman on their board or in their top 5. There are expectation that a player of that caliber can the those things you reference. You're not drafting him to match up against other team's top lines.

Yesterday's game was a prime example. I give a lot of credit to UMass. They had a clear gameplan and executed. Competed hard. But with Buium specifically - he had issues with retrievals and quite a few o zone turnovers at the line. The pace was fast and a lot of what Buium was doing wasn't working. Now one meh game, doesn't a erase a season's worth of good games and there are certainly pros to Buium's game. He's got great hands. He's creative. He can see the ice and make plays. But I do question if he's dynamic enough to dance around the o zone with the degree of success he does today or if his game in the NHL is more built around reads and quick puck movement.

My opinion is I see Buium as a good 3. Maybe a 2 with a high end partner, but ideally a 2nd pairing puckmover who can play on your powerplay. Not a bad pick at 5th overall historically speaking, but not really what you're shooting for in that range.

 

[rt]

And yet Ryan Lindgren and Adam Fox have formed a pretty high end NHL D pair over the years.

 

[95snipes]

And yet Ryan Lindgren and Adam Fox have formed a pretty high end NHL D pair over the years.

That's fine and perhaps you're right and he ends up being that good. Not saying Buium's not talented.

For me, Fox might be the smartest player I've ever seen. He's certainly up there. 11/10 hockey sense. Buium can make plays, but drawing that connection is.. ambitious. It's like comparing an A student to Harvard's valedictorian.

 

[Sonk]

But that's exactly the argument against Buium. I don't think too many people think his skating is so prohibitive that he won't be an NHLer. He's an offensive defenseman and there are folks out there with Buium as the top defenseman on their board or in their top 5. There are expectation that a player of that caliber can the those things you reference. You're not drafting him to match up against other team's top lines.

Yesterday's game was a prime example. I give a lot of credit to UMass. They had a clear gameplan and executed. Competed hard. But with Buium specifically - he had issues with retrievals and quite a few o zone turnovers at the line. The pace was fast and a lot of what Buium was doing wasn't working. Now one meh game, doesn't a erase a season's worth of good games and there are certainly pros to Buium's game. He's got great hands. He's creative. He can see the ice and make plays. But I do question if he's dynamic enough to dance around the o zone with the degree of success he does today or if his game in the NHL is more built around reads and quick puck movement.

My opinion is I see Buium as a good 3. Maybe a 2 with a high end partner, but ideally a 2nd pairing puckmover who can play on your powerplay. Not a bad pick at 5th overall historically speaking, but not really what you're shooting for in that range.

I think it’s unrealistic to not bake in at least a little growth with regards to his explosiveness. It’s already an asset and will likely see some gains with increased strength. It’s not like he has to develop the edge work or anything, it’s just improving on an already established strength.

 

[rt]

That's fine and perhaps you're right and he ends up being that good. Not saying Buium's not talented.

For me, Fox might be the smartest player I've ever seen. He's certainly up there. 11/10 hockey sense. Buium can make plays, but drawing that connection is.. ambitious. It's like comparing an A student to Harvard's valedictorian.

There’s a scale. It’s not two categories; Fox and not Fox. If he can reach a mid-point on the Provorov to Fox continuum the team that drafts him will be thrilled.

 

[rt]

Mentioning Provorov made me think of the 2015 draft. Hanifin and Werenski were NCAA freshmen and top ten picks in that draft. Buium has doubled their production this year. He’s been twice as productive. That’s just nuts. And he’s a half a point per game better than Quinn Hughes as a freshmen top ten pick in his draft year. He’s also doubled up on Owen Power’s production as a freshman 1st overall.

 

[95snipes]

There’s a scale. It’s not two categories; Fox and not Fox. If he can reach a mid-point on the Provorov to Fox continuum the team that drafts him will be thrilled.

Sure, but then you're talking about a low end 2 / good 3, which is what I said in my post.

 

[rt]

Sure, but then you're talking about a low end 2 / good 3, which is what I said in my post.

I think what you described is Provorov. The mid point between that and a perennial Norris candidate is something different.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

What are Buium's weaknesses? He seems ranked kinda low compared to his very high production.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

What are Buium's weaknesses? He seems ranked kinda low compared to his very high production.

That he doesn’t bring anything great. He’s a 6’0 defenseman that skates only okay and plays only okay defense and is better than okay offensively but probably never one of the leading OFD in the league.

NHL teams like to have players in defined roles. It may not be obvious to them what his role will be.

 

[coooldude]

Both the last two games, he's played an extremely sound game in the D zone, has seen PK and PP time. Secondary assist today on the PP wasn't much to write home about but I've been impressed with his general soundness given his reputation as an offensive defenseman. He's trusted by his team on zone exits.

He hasn't taken over the game much, so not sure I'm seeing a top-of-the-D-pack pick at least in these two games. But they live to play another game, so we'll see what happens as the stakes raise once again.

 

[tomd]

But that's exactly the argument against Buium. I don't think too many people think his skating is so prohibitive that he won't be an NHLer. He's an offensive defenseman and there are folks out there with Buium as the top defenseman on their board or in their top 5. There are expectation that a player of that caliber can the those things you reference. You're not drafting him to match up against other team's top lines.

Yesterday's game was a prime example. I give a lot of credit to UMass. They had a clear gameplan and executed. Competed hard. But with Buium specifically - he had issues with retrievals and quite a few o zone turnovers at the line. The pace was fast and a lot of what Buium was doing wasn't working. Now one meh game, doesn't a erase a season's worth of good games and there are certainly pros to Buium's game. He's got great hands. He's creative. He can see the ice and make plays. But I do question if he's dynamic enough to dance around the o zone with the degree of success he does today or if his game in the NHL is more built around reads and quick puck movement.

My opinion is I see Buium as a good 3. Maybe a 2 with a high end partner, but ideally a 2nd pairing puckmover who can play on your powerplay. Not a bad pick at 5th overall historically speaking, but not really what you're shooting for in that range.

It sounds like you are describing Jamie Drysdale.

 

[95snipes]

It sounds like you are describing Jamie Drysdale.

It's been awhile since I've seen Drysdale play quite honestly. Not exactly sure where his game is at these days, but I think Drysdale is a better skater and Buium has more offensive skill. But yeah can see similar roles there between the two.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Both the last two games, he's played an extremely sound game in the D zone, has seen PK and PP time. Secondary assist today on the PP wasn't much to write home about but I've been impressed with his general soundness given his reputation as an offensive defenseman. He's trusted by his team on zone exits.

He hasn't taken over the game much, so not sure I'm seeing a top-of-the-D-pack pick at least in these two games. But they live to play another game, so we'll see what happens as the stakes raise once again.

Don't know about extremely sound in the Dzone. He was fine .. he was beat a couple times; once for a really good chance and had trouble handling the forecheck on retrievals a couple times... Nothing got him in trouble on the scoreboard.

I think he was sound in all 3 zones and did have some good defensive plays.

Denver isn't shy to use him

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Mentioning Provorov made me think of the 2015 draft. Hanifin and Werenski were NCAA freshmen and top ten picks in that draft. Buium has doubled their production this year. He’s been twice as productive. That’s just nuts. And he’s a half a point per game better than Quinn Hughes as a freshmen top ten pick in his draft year. He’s also doubled up on Owen Power’s production as a freshman 1st overall.

What's your projection .. ?