LD Zeev Buium - University of Denver, NCAA (2024, 12th, MIN)

[coooldude]

No “video evidence” is going to allow you to spot a single inch difference, come on now. And link to where Zeev says this?

1. If you watch, let's say, 5 games, and every one of his teammates and opponents that is listed as 6'1" or 6'2" look bigger than him, and he looks about the same size as every one of the players listed around 6'0" or so... And if you see him standing next to a guy for two minutes whole moving around who has been measured at the combine as 6'0", hasn't grown, and he's not very clearly taller than that guy...

2. Levshunov is 6'2", Yakemchuk is a shade under 6'3". Watch those guys on tape and tell me Zeev is their size.

3. Just go back and read about 3 pages of this speculation some time in January.

4. Why do you care so much? Just wait until the combine. It doesn't matter. Maybe we're all totally wrong and you're right. The great measuring stick will soon shine the brightest of light on the truth.

 

[Garbageyuk]

It gets scouts at their games. It is probably a bit of an antiquated thing, from when video wasn't quite as readily available. But if you are a scout trying to get out and see kids, and you see 2 have the same stats, and one is a couple inches taller, which one are you going to plan a trip out to see?

Even if the real number eventually is measured at the combine, it gets scouts to your amateur program. Then you can use that to advertise to players that you are a better path to the pros because you will get them in front of scouts, which then starts a cycle.

And even if it is just a slight advantage, it is a positive feedback thing, so the team will do whatever they can to make it happen.

This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard, and isn’t a thing. Yeah adding an extra inch to Buium’s height, AFTER THE SEASON IS ALREADY OVER is really going to help an already world class athletic program so much.

Why do you care so much?

Uh, you’ve been the one quoting me repeatedly.

 

[majormajor]

This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard, and isn’t a thing. Yeah adding an extra inch to Buium’s height, AFTER THE SEASON IS ALREADY OVER is really going to help an already world class athletic program so much.

They added it towards the beginning of the season, I assumed it was from Denver's measurements from their start of the season.

And yes, giving false height measurements for a kid can be a way to give him some attention. This is an old trick.

 

[coooldude]

Uh, you’ve been the one quoting me repeatedly.

Reply 1: I simply shared that this thread had a lot of discussion on this topic earlier, that he's probably not 6'2", and that we're all waiting for the combine.

Next two replies were because you kept insisting that the 3-4 of us saying the same thing were wrong.

If you'd like, I can stop replying so that you can continue to be wrong (likely - as I said three times now, the combine will reveal the truth).

 

[Byron Bitz]

I have this kid as the #2 D in the draft after Levshunov. I love his skating, his acceleration is top notch, his ability to change directions so quickly opens up lanes in the offensive zone

 

[WeThreeKings]

Pronman seemed to think he'd be the last of the 6 defenseman to go, let's see if that changes.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

I have this kid as the #2 D in the draft after Levshunov. I love his skating, his acceleration is top notch, his ability to change directions so quickly opens up lanes in the offensive zone

have him #1

 

[tomd]

My prediction is that he measures somewhere in the 5.11.5-6.0.5 range at the combine.

 

[57special]

So both USA Hockey and the Pioneers are lying? DB is obviously going off of the other two. Neither has any reason to lie, especially USA Hockey. And source on it not being factual?

happens all the time with athletes. We'll just have to wait for the NHL combine, which posts the actual measurements.

 

[57special]

If anything, someone maybe rounded up from 6’1.75” out of laziness. Or, the more simple explanation, he’s actually 6’2” or close enough that they are going to list him as that. There’s no way they are going intentionally exaggerate his height to any significant extent. What would that get them?

And you would be wrong. Athletes lie all the time about their height and weight, almost always inflating totals. Kevin Durant is the only one I eve heard of he wanted his height to be lessened as he felt that being 7' would cause scouts to think he couldn't handle the ball.

I've lost track of how many athletes i've run into in person who are smaller than their listed height. Parise is listed at 5'11". I'm a legit 6' 1/2". I'm at least 2 1/12- 3" taller. My son is 5'8 3/4". He is the same height, maybe taller, than Kaprizov(they've hung out a bit together). Another former NHL'er who i know quite well told me he's 5'11". I looked at him in disbelief, then he amended it to, "well, that's what they listed me at." He had his son listed as 6'1" (baseball player), and he's at least 2" shorter than me. I could go on and on.

Given the importance on height and weight when players are assessed by scouts, there is an obvious motivation to appear to be as tall and heavy(unless you are Dustin Byguglien)as possible.

 

[xVolchenkov]

And you would be wrong. Athletes lie all the time about their height and weight, almost always inflating totals. Kevin Durant is the only one I eve heard of he wanted his height to be lessened as he felt that being 7' would cause scouts to think he couldn't handle the ball.

I've lost track of how many athletes i've run into in person who are smaller than their listed height. Parise is listed at 5'11". I'm a legit 6' 1/2". I'm at least 2 1/12- 3" taller. My son is 5'8 3/4". He is the same height, maybe taller, than Kaprizov(they've hung out a bit together). Another former NHL'er who i know quite well told me he's 5'11". I looked at him in disbelief, then he amended it to, "well, that's what they listed me at." He had his son listed as 6'1" (baseball player), and he's at least 2" shorter than me. I could go on and on.

Given the importance on height and weight when players are assessed by scouts, there is an obvious motivation to appear to be as tall and heavy(unless you are Dustin Byguglien)as possible.

Maybe they're including the skates?

 

[STL fan in MN]

And you would be wrong. Athletes lie all the time about their height and weight, almost always inflating totals. Kevin Durant is the only one I eve heard of he wanted his height to be lessened as he felt that being 7' would cause scouts to think he couldn't handle the ball.

I've lost track of how many athletes i've run into in person who are smaller than their listed height. Parise is listed at 5'11". I'm a legit 6' 1/2". I'm at least 2 1/12- 3" taller. My son is 5'8 3/4". He is the same height, maybe taller, than Kaprizov(they've hung out a bit together). Another former NHL'er who i know quite well told me he's 5'11". I looked at him in disbelief, then he amended it to, "well, that's what they listed me at." He had his son listed as 6'1" (baseball player), and he's at least 2" shorter than me. I could go on and on.

Given the importance on height and weight when players are assessed by scouts, there is an obvious motivation to appear to be as tall and heavy(unless you are Dustin Byguglien)as possible.

Yep. The one time I made a pretty high level team that actually listed heights and weights, I was listed at 5’11”. I was maybe 5’9”. My weight was exaggerated a good 20 lbs too. Happens all the time.

I attended the Nat’l Championship game in person and stood at the glass with my son during warmups. I’ll be absolutely shocked if Buium measures in at 6’2” at the Combine next month.

But I still have him ranked as the best d-man in this draft.

 

[57special]

Maybe they're including the skates?

And even that one's funny, because not all skates are the same height. Some players choose to put lifts on their skates(for hockey reasons, not to appear taller).

 

[rt]

It’s probably just an honest mistake. He’s probably 6ft and 2 tenths of an inch. Some poor intern listed him as 6’2. Happens all the time.

 

[ello]

Kaprisov is not 5’8” and change

If you’ve watched hockey long enough you can tell how roughly tall a player is on the ice. Players often have their heights corrected to taller too once they’re in the league for a while. Panarin went from 5’11 to 6, Makar
was 5’11 until this season, Dubois was 6’2 until this year, I can go on and on.

Are some player shorter than listed. Absolutely, Garland was on a podcast joking about 5’10 being a lie. BUT it’s also super obvious watching him play how small he is. I swear the narrative that every NHLer is magically like 5’9 was invented for us less athletic folk to feel better about ourselves

 

[57special]

Kaprisov is not 5’8” and change

If you’ve watched hockey long enough you can tell how roughly tall a player is on the ice. Players often have their heights corrected to taller too once they’re in the league for a while. Panarin went from 5’11 to 6, Makar
was 5’11 until this season, Dubois was 6’2 until this year, I can go on and on.

Are some player shorter than listed. Absolutely, Garland was on a podcast joking about 5’10 being a lie. BUT it’s also super obvious watching him play how small he is. I swear the narrative that every NHLer is magically like 5’9 was invented for us less athletic folk to feel better about ourselves

He sat beside him at a sporting event, then hung out with him afterwards at a local establishment. He's built like a tank, though. Another "secret". Jared Spurgeon isn't 5'9".

 

[STL fan in MN]

Jaden Schwartz is definitely shorter than 5’10”.

5’10” seems to be the shortest height that’s deemed somewhat acceptable to be an NHLer so my guess is that most players that are more in the 5’8”-5’9” range are listed at 5’10”.

 

[samsagat]

I watched Denver's Frozen Four semi final game against Boston College yesterday and frankly, he doesn't look 6'2" compared to his defensive partner, Behrens, who's listed around 5'10" - 5'11".

A little over 6' would be my guess.

But he was listed at 5'10" - 5'11" at the beginning of the season and his brother, Shai Buium, is 6'3" - 6'4" ..

So a late growing up isn't out of question for him...

 

[majormajor]

But he was listed at 5'10" - 5'11" at the beginning of the season and his brother, Shai Buium, is 6'3" - 6'4" ..

So a late growing up isn't out of question for him...

If he was still growing during the year we would have heard all about it. "Growth plates are still open" is like cat nip for scouts.

 

[Genghis Keon]

With regards to the Keith comparisons, Keith was known as a great skater in his draft year. See this Red Line Report profile from his draft year. I knew it existed from following the draft and was luckily able to find it using the wayback machine: USATODAY.com - Spartans' Keith finally settles in one place

"Keith's an exciting guy to watch," says one impressed Eastern Conference scout, "he's not only a great skater, he's a fluid and effortless one as well. His acceleration allows him to join the rush, and his passing will bring a solid transition game to any team he's on."

"Has a great engine that gets him from zero to 60 in one stride."

"Skating: A+"

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Duncan keith was a #54 pick, people. He was not considered to be a top tier player in his draft year, nor an elite player for years after his draft. Comparing Buium to him at the same times in their relative careers is not sacrilege.

There is even a thread on this site comparing him and Ballard, and wondering who would end being the best Dman, 5 years after his draft(2002). Here is one quote from 2007, and he was by no means alone;

"Ballard, and IMO, it's not even close. Maybe it's because I've seen a lot of Ballard, but from what I have seen of Keith, he's been rather unimpressive."

Keith had 15 pts in 41 GP in the NCAA in his draft year.

Buium had 50 pts in 42 gp in his draft year. It's not crazy to speculate on whether Buium had the potential to be the next Keith, though a lot of his success depended on him being surrounded by players like Kane, Toews, Hossa, Byfuglien, Seabrooke, Hjalmarsson, Crawford, etc.

It's an odd take, considering many players aren't done developing when they're drafted. What is common for defensemen who raise their game level is their skating ability. Here's a recent defenseman whose game rose after being drafted in Brock Faber, selected in the 2nd round, pick 45 of the 2020 draft.

Here are some pre-draft comments on Faber from his MyNHLdraft page:

Brock Faber | Brock Faber Profile | Brock Faber Scouting Report 2020

Brock Faber scouting report for NHL Draft. Profile contains Brock Faber stats, videos and written bios

www.mynhldraft.com

As for talking about "success depended on him being surrounded by players like Kane, Toews, Hossa, etc..." Zeev Buium is kinda in a similar situation with his NCAA team.

Let's compare Zeev's team to Levshunov's team.

Lev is the 2nd best defensive scorer that is under 19 years old in the NCAA behind Zeev. Yet, Lev doesn't have the mass amount of talented players (shown by players drafted) around him this past season.

• Pairwise Rankings (NCAA ranking)
  • 2022-23
    • Denver = 4th
    • Michigan St = 16th (did not make the NCAA tournament)
  • 2023-24
    • Denver = 3rd
    • Michigan St = 4th

Which is more impressive, a rookie defenseman putting up great numbers with a very talented team or a rookie defenseman carrying his team offensively and defensively? Looking at the pairwise ranking for the past two seasons, if we remove Zeev from Denver, then they'd still be a top-4 team in the NCAA; if we remove Lev from Mich St., then Mich St. would probably fall off from a top-4 ranking greatly.

 

[rt]

It's an odd take, considering many players aren't done developing when they're drafted. What is common for defensemen who raise their game level is their skating ability. Here's a recent defenseman whose game rose after being drafted in Brock Faber, selected in the 2nd round, pick 45 of the 2020 draft.

Here are some pre-draft comments on Faber from his MyNHLdraft page:

Brock Faber | Brock Faber Profile | Brock Faber Scouting Report 2020

Brock Faber scouting report for NHL Draft. Profile contains Brock Faber stats, videos and written bios

www.mynhldraft.com

As for talking about "success depended on him being surrounded by players like Kane, Toews, Hossa, etc..." Zeev Buium is kinda in a similar situation with his NCAA team.

View attachment 873293

Let's compare Zeev's team to Levshunov's team.

View attachment 873294

Lev is the 2nd best defensive scorer that is under 19 years old in the NCAA behind Zeev. Yet, Lev doesn't have the mass amount of talented players (shown by players drafted) around him this past season.

• Pairwise Rankings (NCAA ranking)
  • 2022-23
    • Denver = 4th
    • Michigan St = 16th (did not make the NCAA tournament)
  • 2023-24
    • Denver = 3rd
    • Michigan St = 4th

Which is more impressive, a rookie defenseman putting up great numbers with a very talented team or a rookie defenseman carrying his team offensively and defensively? Looking at the pairwise ranking for the past two seasons, if we remove Zeev from Denver, then they'd still be a top-4 team in the NCAA; if we remove Lev from Mich St., then Mich St. would probably fall off from a top-4 ranking greatly.

When I checked in early April Zeev had the slightly better share of points on overall team goals.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

It's an odd take, considering many players aren't done developing when they're drafted. What is common for defensemen who raise their game level is their skating ability. Here's a recent defenseman whose game rose after being drafted in Brock Faber, selected in the 2nd round, pick 45 of the 2020 draft.

Here are some pre-draft comments on Faber from his MyNHLdraft page:

Brock Faber | Brock Faber Profile | Brock Faber Scouting Report 2020

Brock Faber scouting report for NHL Draft. Profile contains Brock Faber stats, videos and written bios

www.mynhldraft.com

As for talking about "success depended on him being surrounded by players like Kane, Toews, Hossa, etc..." Zeev Buium is kinda in a similar situation with his NCAA team.

View attachment 873293

Let's compare Zeev's team to Levshunov's team.

View attachment 873294

Lev is the 2nd best defensive scorer that is under 19 years old in the NCAA behind Zeev. Yet, Lev doesn't have the mass amount of talented players (shown by players drafted) around him this past season.

• Pairwise Rankings (NCAA ranking)
  • 2022-23
    • Denver = 4th
    • Michigan St = 16th (did not make the NCAA tournament)
  • 2023-24
    • Denver = 3rd
    • Michigan St = 4th

Which is more impressive, a rookie defenseman putting up great numbers with a very talented team or a rookie defenseman carrying his team offensively and defensively? Looking at the pairwise ranking for the past two seasons, if we remove Zeev from Denver, then they'd still be a top-4 team in the NCAA; if we remove Lev from Mich St., then Mich St. would probably fall off from a top-4 ranking greatly.

You would then have to take into account that there is a difference in talent level between the two conferences.

 

[ValeriKamensky]

Athletes lie all the time about their height and weight, almost always inflating totals.

Ok, when player is still non-NHL affiliated prospect, it’s no problem for him and his agent to lie.
But if he’s NHLer? Don’t team take measurements at the start of training camp?

 

[rt]

Ok, when player is still non-NHL affiliated prospect, it’s no problem for him and his agent to lie.
But if he’s NHLer? Don’t team take measurements at the start of training camp?

It’s my belief that the combine is the first and last measurement you can ever trust in any players whole career.