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LD Travis Sanheim - Calgary Hitmen, WHL (2014, 17th, PHI)

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daa5250 said:
Saying Sanheim is as safe of prospect as they come is absurd and very out of touch with defense prospects. Someone like Provorov was exponentially more well rounded and a safer prospect and it's not even close.

Sanheim is 21 and not expected to make the Flyers to start next season. There is a reason for that. He was a raw long term prospect that had some elite tools but also had some legitimate holes. His defense was poor even in his +2 draft junior year and his offensive game was very much a junior style tailored to taking advantage of small weak competition that needed a lot of tailoring to a pro game. If you watch Sanheim's junior highlights he frequently just holds the puck in the offensive zone skating in circles trying to dangle to create a shot in the slot. Skating around in circles in the Offensive zone until you find a wrist shot is a style that does not translate in the pros.

Another Flyer prospect by comparison in Philippe Myers plays a much more fine tuned pro offensive game. Sanheim is likely the more naturally gifted player but played a style in juniors that would never work in pros and needed a lot more fine tuning.

This past year he did a good job making some strides playing a more simpler pro game (took him some time after having no goals in 1st ~ 25 games?) but by the end of the year was looking like a lethal offensive threat.

Sanheim also made nice strides in his D zone play and overall defense this year which was a concern heading in. However, his defense in the NHL is a still ? and an area that could be problematic at the next level. He certainly wont have the defensive pedigree of someone like Provorov who was a far safer bet to be a good NHL player.

I think Sanheim will pan out at the NHL level and be dynamic enough offensively and competent enough defensively to be a good NHL player. But he is not even close to "as safe as bet as they come" nor is he a shoo-in to be a good NHL player. Thinking that would be very naive.
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You point to all these huge, disastrous junior-style deficiencies. Some of which, are hugely overblown or exagerrated imo. At least you then give him credit for adapting this year.

Present day, those holes you are were concerned about initially are really not an issue. After working to rectify any deficiencies early in the year, he started to totally dominate in the second half. He looked head and shoulders above the AHL level by seasons end. I'm not sure why you state he's not expected to make the Flyers this year. Any of the avid Phantoms watchers on our board would disagree. Even with having to compete for spots against guys like Hagg and Morin, who have more pro experience.

Also, I'm not sure why you want to keep comparing him to Provorov. You said yourself he was drafted as an upside project. He was a scrawny, late bloomer with little experience. Provorov was drafted as a polished, game ready grown man. Sanheim is developing perfectly for what he is/was.

There's still no explanation for you declaring him boom or bust. He's not some one dimensional TJ Brennan AHL style offensive defenseman. Sanheim's defense came along well. He was near the top of the league in fewest goals against at 5v5. He also played 2nd PK. His defense will translate just fine. With the likes of Provorov, Myers, Gudas, Hagg, etc around he'll never be the guy matched against top competition anyway.
 
daa5250 said:
I mean it's certainly a possibility. Assuming Sanheim is a top 4 stud would be premature given his boom or bust skill set and position he plays.
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daa5250 said:
At the very least Myers is a far better prospect with a higher potential than Morin. Guy was 1st pairing for Canada at this years WJCs and is universally deemed a higher prospect than Morin at the moment. It's not like Morin lit up the AHL. He was decent at best.
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You certainly don't speak for many Flyers fans if this is what you see when you watched them in the AHL.
 
Ah, yes, another battle of the extremes. Either he is "boom/bust" or he is "as safe as they come". There's more nuance to these things than that... He's a blue-chip prospect who had a pretty good season in the AHL relative to expectations and will be competitive for a roster spot in the fall. He could become an impact defender in the NHL, and it's also still possible that he doesn't. I think it's hard to envision a scenario where he's a total bust, but there's a range of possible outcomes with different likelihoods for each. I feel like people get too caught up in one or two outcomes that they believe are the only possible ones.
 
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Stizzle said:
You point to all these huge, disastrous junior-style deficiencies. Some of which, are hugely overblown or exagerrated imo. At least you then give him credit for adapting this year.

Present day, those holes you are were concerned about initially are really not an issue. After working to rectify any deficiencies early in the year, he started to totally dominate in the second half. He looked head and shoulders above the AHL level by seasons end. I'm not sure why you state he's not expected to make the Flyers this year. Any of the avid Phantoms watchers on our board would disagree. Even with having to compete for spots against guys like Hagg and Morin, who have more pro experience.

Also, I'm not sure why you want to keep comparing him to Provorov. You said yourself he was drafted as an upside project. He was a scrawny, late bloomer with little experience. Provorov was drafted as a polished, game ready grown man. Sanheim is developing perfectly for what he is/was.

There's still no explanation for you declaring him boom or bust. He's not some one dimensional TJ Brennan AHL style offensive defenseman. Sanheim's defense came along well. He was near the top of the league in fewest goals against at 5v5. He also played 2nd PK. His defense will translate just fine. With the likes of Provorov, Myers, Gudas, Hagg, etc around he'll never be the guy matched against top competition anyway.
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When i said "boom or bust" it was more just as a saying and referring to him seemingly having a bigger variance between floor and ceiling than most top prospects like Provorov. When i say that it is also a compliment to his very high ceiling but his floor is absolutely lower than prospects like Provorov and Werenski were viewed to have heading into this past year.

I compared Sanheim to Provorov because you made the absurd claim Sanheim is as safe of bet as there is which is far from true. Provorov was just a very recent example from the Flyers of somebody who was a far safer prospect. Sanheim right now is not as a safe as a prospect as guys like Provorov or Werenski were heading into this past season and it's not even close.

As for him making the Flyers. The majority of writers and analysts I have read from do not believe he will make the team out of the gate and I agree. I think he'll start in the AHL in a top pairing role and get more polishing until he makes it clear to the Flyers they absolutely need to call him up.
 
Random Forest said:
Ah, yes, another battle of the extremes. Either he is "boom/bust" or he is "as safe as they come". There's more nuance to these things than that... He's a blue-chip prospect who had a pretty good season in the AHL relative to expectations and will be competitive for a roster spot in the fall. He could become an impact defender in the NHL, and it's also still possible that he doesn't. I think it's hard to envision a scenario where he's a total bust, but there's a range of possible outcomes with different likelihoods for each. I feel like people get too caught up in one or two outcomes that they believe are the only possible ones.
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Iv made it clear in multiple posts that i think he'll be a good player and has a big ceiling but it would be very naive to just assume so like many are and that he could very well be an underwhelming player which would essentially be a bust. I agree with you if you read more than "boom/bust". I was replying to the posts saying you dont have to worry about him potentially busting and saying he is as safe of a bet as they come.
 
daa5250 said:
When i said "boom or bust" it was more just as a saying and referring to him seemingly having a bigger variance between floor and ceiling than most top prospects like Provorov. When i say that it is also a compliment to his very high ceiling but his floor is absolutely lower than prospects like Provorov and Werenski were viewed to have heading into this past year.

I compared Sanheim to Provorov because you made the absurd claim Sanheim is as safe of bet as there is which is far from true. Provorov was just a very recent example from the Flyers of somebody who was a far safer prospect. Sanheim right now is not as a safe as a prospect as guys like Provorov or Werenski were heading into this past season and it's not even close.

As for him making the Flyers. The majority of writers and analysts I have read from do not believe he will make the team out of the gate and I agree. I think he'll start in the AHL in a top pairing role and get more polishing until he makes it clear to the Flyers they absolutely need to call him up.
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Good job taking "as safe as they come" and twisting it to the most extreme and literal level. As I was just pointing out he certainly isn't boom or bust as you kept repeating. Which was clearly wrong. Nice job back tracking on that statement, though.
 
Stizzle said:
Good job taking "as safe as they come" and twisting it to the most extreme and literal level. As I was just pointing out he certainly isn't boom or bust as you kept repeating. Which was clearly wrong. Nice job back tracking on that statement, though.
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Ok lets get this straight.

So you are taking offense to me taking your claim too literal of Sanheim being "as safe as they come" and in response giving a number of far safer prospects in comparison. But you then say im backtracking for saying I "literally" didnt mean Sanheim could merely be only elite or a complete bust when i used the "boom or bust" saying? Brilliant and not a double standard at all ...
 
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Not much talk about him...

but he has been pretty darn good since making his NHL debut. Looks more comfortable every week and is starting to make some awesome plays as well as being so far extremely solid in his own zone. Been unlucky in the points regard but when he is on ice good things happen whoever he is paired with.

56.67% Corsi
+7.44% Corsi Rel

57.53% SF
58.32% ExGF

Some people worried about his defense... but at 5v5 so far:

46.21 CA/60 (4th best amongst NHL Dmen)
27.16 SA/60 (22nd best amongst NHL Dmen)
1.91 ExGA/60 (14th best amongst NHL Dmen)

Not exactly tough minutes, but he is never in his own zone for long and dangerous chances against don't happen with him on ice.

Just wish they would use him on PP2...
 
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Appleyard said:
Not much talk about him...

but he has been pretty darn good since making his NHL debut. Looks more comfortable every week and is starting to make some awesome plays as well as being so far extremely solid in his own zone. Been unlucky in the points regard but when he is on ice good things happen whoever he is paired with.

56.67% Corsi
+7.44% Corsi Rel

57.53% SF
58.32% ExGF

Some people worried about his defense... but at 5v5 so far:

46.21 CA/60 (4th best amongst NHL Dmen)
27.16 SA/60 (22nd best amongst NHL Dmen)
1.91 ExGA/60 (14th best amongst NHL Dmen)

Not exactly tough minutes, but he is never in his own zone for long and dangerous chances against don't happen with him on ice.

Just wish they would use him on PP2...
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I've only seen him a few times. Liked what I saw but he had one reaaaally awful overtime shift where he gave the puck away and the Flyers ended up losing.

His advanced stats are incredible. It would be interesting to see how they trend if he is given more responsibility at 5v5. For the sake of my fantasy hockey team, I'd love for him to get consistent PP time.
 
1st NHL goal tonight. He has played very well this year despite somewhat limited minutes. His metrics have been favorable. A lot to like with Sanheim.
 
He’s really good, and plays best when he’s doing so with confidence. I’m glad the Flyers are bringing him along gradually so he can round his hockey mind out to his very, very good tool set - not implying he’s lacking hockey IQ, just could stand to become more consistent and decisive. I feel quite confident in predicting him becoming a dominant top-pair guy within two years, but I’ve been high on him since his D-1.
 
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He’ll be back soon enough, this year or next. Hopefully he dominates in the AHL, he’s got the talent to be a big time scorer there.
 
ponder said:
He’ll be back soon enough, this year or next. Hopefully he dominates in the AHL, he’s got the talent to be a big time scorer there.
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He's pretty dominant last season. Myers has been dominant this season. Unfortunately, AHL performance is meaningless in the Flyers organization.
 
whitstifier said:
He's pretty dominant last season. Myers has been dominant this season. Unfortunately, AHL performance is meaningless in the Flyers organization.
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NHL performance is also meaningless in the Flyers organization.

This was posted a couple weeks ago by FLYguy3911 when Sanheim started getting scratched...

Top 10 D at 5v5 by relative CF%:

1. Lindholm
2. Hamilton
3. Werenski
4. Karlsson
5. Giordano
6. Sanheim
7. S. Jones
8. C. Miller
9. Doughty
10. Demers

here's the bottom 10:

136. Hagg
137. Forsling
138. Bieksa
139. Ceci
140. Gunnarsson
141. Savard
142. A. Greene
143. J. Johnson
144. Braun
145. Santini

... It has also been stated by (I think) Appleyard that the pair of Sanheim & Gudas are 2nd in the entire NHL in CF%.

Unfortunately for Sanheim the Flyers have the worst head coach in the league, Dave Hakstol. Who is a caveman.

I'll edit this in as well...


 
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Stizzle said:
NHL performance is also meaningless in the Flyers organization.

This was posted a couple weeks ago by FLYguy3911 when Sanheim started getting scratched...

Top 10 D at 5v5 by relative CF%:

1. Lindholm
2. Hamilton
3. Werenski
4. Karlsson
5. Giordano
6. Sanheim
7. S. Jones
8. C. Miller
9. Doughty
10. Demers

here's the bottom 10:

136. Hagg
137. Forsling
138. Bieksa
139. Ceci
140. Gunnarsson
141. Savard
142. A. Greene
143. J. Johnson
144. Braun
145. Santini

... It has also been stated by (I think) Appleyard that the pair of Sanheim & Gudas are 2nd in the entire NHL in CF%.

Unfortunately for Sanheim the Flyers have the worst head coach in the league, Dave Hakstol. Who is a caveman.[/QUOTE]
Says who? Scotty Bowman?
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Stizzle said:
NHL performance is also meaningless in the Flyers organization.

This was posted a couple weeks ago by FLYguy3911 when Sanheim started getting scratched...

Top 10 D at 5v5 by relative CF%:

1. Lindholm
2. Hamilton
3. Werenski
4. Karlsson
5. Giordano
6. Sanheim
7. S. Jones
8. C. Miller
9. Doughty
10. Demers

here's the bottom 10:

136. Hagg
137. Forsling
138. Bieksa
139. Ceci
140. Gunnarsson
141. Savard
142. A. Greene
143. J. Johnson
144. Braun
145. Santini

... It has also been stated by (I think) Appleyard that the pair of Sanheim & Gudas are 2nd in the entire NHL in CF%.

Unfortunately for Sanheim the Flyers have the worst head coach in the league, Dave Hakstol. Who is a caveman.

I'll edit this in as well...


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Now post the minutes and competition those other guys face. I get the point of your post, but it is misleading to look at one slice and try to judge a conclusion, you know?
 
Kamiccolo said:
Now post the minutes and competition those other guys face. I get the point of your post, but it is misleading to look at one slice and try to judge a conclusion, you know?
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Pretty sure his conclusion is just that he should be playing regularly in the NHL rather than saying he's at the same level of the names that have relative corsi numbers.
 
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