LD Miro Heiskanen - IFK Helsinki, Liiga (2017, 3rd, DAL)

[kelsier]

I think, as a Finn, that Laine is certainly real deal and the most exciting hockey player this country has ever produced. I have no doubt that he'll be one of the most dangerous goal-scorers of his time, and possibly of all time. Laine is clearly a step above of other Finnish prospects.

Finnish youth development in hockey has taken some major steps but one must be realistic with these prospects. Most likely big number of them are going to "bust" or underwhelm their expectations, as will most of the prospects overall. It's extremely hard to break in to the "elite-category" in the NHL and from Finland there has been just a couple of players there. Just being a NHL-regular is a very good achievement.

While all of this is more or less true, one has to take in account to where player is drafted. Barkov f.ex. was a second draft pick and was able to play in the NHL straight out of the gates and as a first line center. Laine was also picked second and was also able to play in the first line in D+1 year. Heiskanen being picked third was no freak accident. He quite literally has been as good as advertised, and regardless of the other two previously mentioned, he most likely will need another year to sharpen his skills. Not to mention even more so, gather some muscle around his body. Was he not playing D, a position in the NHL where you truly need to have good core strength to be able to compete, the kid might already be starting up in the Stars roster. Yet defensemen take their time, especially if you're not physically quite there yet. Skill-wise he looks to be right there with the best of them (other top prospects) and the hype definitely hasn't gone out of hands. I truly believe after some years he might be considered to be #1 taken in re-drafts, but you never know.

While high draft pick doesn't guarantee anything, the history has proven still that it has quite a big impact on how the player fairs in the future. At the same time low draft pick doesn't mean a player couldn't become one of the better players on the planet. Not all are guaranteed for success but in the case of Heiskanen, everything is pointing up in the stars.

 

[ginner classic]

I think, as a Finn, that Laine is certainly real deal and the most exciting hockey player this country has ever produced. I have no doubt that he'll be one of the most dangerous goal-scorers of his time, and possibly of all time. Laine is clearly a step above of other Finnish prospects.

Finnish youth development in hockey has taken some major steps but one must be realistic with these prospects. Most likely big number of them are going to "bust" or underwhelm their expectations, as will most of the prospects overall. It's extremely hard to break in to the "elite-category" in the NHL and from Finland there has been just a couple of players there. Just being a NHL-regular is a very good achievement.

Selanne says hi.

Laine may end up being better than him (unlikely, but possible), but he'll never be more exciting.

 

[Cheddabombs]

For the 3rd overall pick I don't think Heiskanen is getting nearly as much love as he should. Really exciting player to watch, happy for the Stars. He can be a real gem and cornerstone for them in the not so distant future.

 

[TheFinnishTrap]

For the 3rd overall pick I don't think Heiskanen is getting nearly as much love as he should. Really exciting player to watch, happy for the Stars. He can be a real gem and cornerstone for them in the not so distant future.

Finnish dmen playing against men rarely get hyped because their stats don't look very impressive and their highlights don't show them deking through people and sniping it top-corner. Look at Ristolainen as well.

 

[WhatWhat]

For the 3rd overall pick I don't think Heiskanen is getting nearly as much love as he should. Really exciting player to watch, happy for the Stars. He can be a real gem and cornerstone for them in the not so distant future.

There is quite literally about 10-12 stars fans on these boards now. So outside of us and the handful of Finnish fans that are nice enough to keep us updated no one really talks about any of our prospects in this section

 

[Cheddabombs]

Finnish dmen playing against men rarely get hyped because their stats don't look very impressive and their highlights don't show them deking through people and sniping it top-corner. Look at Ristolainen as well.

There is quite literally about 10-12 stars fans on these boards now. So outside of us and the handful of Finnish fans that are nice enough to keep us updated no one really talks about any of our prospects in this section

And it's a shame, Heiskanen is an awesome prospect.

 

[Ippenator]

And it's a shame, Heiskanen is an awesome prospect.

Each of the top 5 Finnish defencemen from this years draft are in fact really, really talented and promising. I have a feeling that Heiskanen is still in his own tier of them, but at the same time I have a feeling that he might really become even better than most of us are expecting at the moment. He has been so darn impressive with almost everything during his last year. If he can still get his shot clearly better and get more strength in general, he could become an unbelievable defenceman really.

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

And it's a shame, Heiskanen is an awesome prospect.

That's true.
HIFK's head coach Ari Pekka Selin has said Heiskanen could be that defenceman what Finnish hockey has lacked last 10-20 years.

It's not usual Finnish defenceman prospect like Heiskanen gets compared to Nick Lidstrom and Scott Niedermayer caliber hockey hall of fame legends.
And even great Igor Larionov has said Heiskanen thinks hockey as a game like Nick Lidstrom that's really high praise for 18 yrs old dman.

And so what if Heiskanen's scoring numbers in FEL not look high SM liiga is a men's league for a reason.
The fact is that 17 yrs old kid won't play against pro players in Finland if he isn't ready for that.

 

[HockeyHistorian]

And even great Igor Larionov has said Heiskanen thinks hockey as a game like Nick Lidstrom that's really high praise for 18 yrs old dman.

And so what if Heiskanen's scoring numbers in FEL not look high SM liiga is a men's league for a reason.
The fact is that 17 yrs old kid won't play against pro players in Finland if he isn't ready for that.

I think that the Lidström comparisons are a bit premature at this point, but I thought it should be mentioned that even Lidström didn't score that much in his draft year: 0+2 in 20 SHL games and 1+4 in 15 Allsvenskan games.

 

[M2Beezy]

Yeah wow now hes the same or better then Lidstrom and Niedermayer??? Philly and Jersey must be kicking themselves already for missing out

 

[TheFinnishTrap]

Yeah wow now hes the same or better then Lidstrom and Niedermayer??? Philly and Jersey must be kicking themselves already for missing out

Lidström and Niedermayer aren't even comparable, so it would be kinda redundant to say Heiskanen is better than them both. And I can't speak for all, but the Lidström comparisons are PURELY stylistical. He's an extremely calm and intelligent defender who relies on his IQ and stickplay more than on his physicality. He also has good offensive instincts, so it's easy to compare him to Lidström regarding their style, but obviously no one should be expecting for him to reach that level.

 

[StiffSquid]

Yeah wow now hes the same or better then Lidstrom and Niedermayer??? Philly and Jersey must be kicking themselves already for missing out

I guess you have problems with reading comprehension? Show me where someone said that he's better than those two? I don't understand why you can't compare a great prospect to all time greats.

Let's put it this way , just for you so it won't bother you.
He's comparable to Sami Helenius , but I don't think he will ever reach that level.

 

[WhatWhat]

Yeah wow now hes the same or better then Lidstrom and Niedermayer??? Philly and Jersey must be kicking themselves already for missing out

You understand what a stylistic comparison is right?

 

[WhatWhat]

Lidström and Niedermayer aren't even comparable, so it would be kinda redundant to say Heiskanen is better than them both. And I can't speak for all, but the Lidström comparisons are PURELY stylistical. He's an extremely calm and intelligent defender who relies on his IQ and stickplay more than on his physicality. He also has good offensive instincts, so it's easy to compare him to Lidström regarding their style, but obviously no one should be expecting for him to reach that level.

All prospect comparison are stylistic. When they say a prospect compares to Giroux, or Vanek, or Toews or whoever they are not saying they are as good or ever will be as good as those guys. They are just trying to put the combination of skills into perspective so the average fan can get a concept of how they play the game

 

[Luddowich]

Still think he'll be what Strålman is today. Maybe slightly better offensively. Don't think he has the offense to be a Norris/franchise level defensemen. Big fan nevertheless. Depends really on how you view the definition of the term "franchise defenseman".
Thing about him is that im very sure that he'll pan out, he's just too good of a skater and too smart for him to not. Think he's placed in an excellent position with him being able to play with Klingberg for a long time, should compliment each other very well.

 

[kelsier]

Still think he'll be what Strålman is today. Maybe slightly better offensively. Don't think he has the offense to be a Norris/franchise level defensemen. Big fan nevertheless. Depends really on how you view the definition of the term "franchise defenseman".
Thing about him is that im very sure that he'll pan out, he's just too good of a skater and too smart for him to not. Think he's placed in an excellent position with him being able to play with Klingberg for a long time, should compliment each other very well.

Then again you also consider Liljegren to have higher ceiling and I just cannot fathom how. They are both excellent skaters and Liljegren is the better shooter and has the better frame but pretty much everything else is in Heiskanen's favor. The smart players tend to be the best in today's game (provided that they don't have any glaring weaknesses). Heiskanen has proven over and again that his hockey IQ and vision are off the charts and he has elite tools. The height shouldn't be a problem while he'll never be a Chara and he's young enough to bulk up significantly. I don't see any real weaknesses when I look at Miro's game other than the fact that he could improve his shooting. Well I agree about not having any certainties in whether someone can become franchise level D, but at least I can say it's looking pretty good about how things are looking for the kid right now. You should check what Grant McCagg has to say about him (not that everyone agree with his views but I personally consider him pretty good prospect evaluator).

 

[TheFinnishTrap]

Still think he'll be what Strålman is today. Maybe slightly better offensively. Don't think he has the offense to be a Norris/franchise level defensemen. Big fan nevertheless. Depends really on how you view the definition of the term "franchise defenseman".
Thing about him is that im very sure that he'll pan out, he's just too good of a skater and too smart for him to not. Think he's placed in an excellent position with him being able to play with Klingberg for a long time, should compliment each other very well.

Well, an offensively bit better Strålman would be a 40+ point scorer many years, which probably doesn't get you any Norris trophies, but along Heiskanen's defense that would make him a solid #1 in my mind.

 

[Luddowich]

Then again you also consider Liljegren to have higher ceiling and I just cannot fathom how. They are both excellent skaters and Liljegren is the better shooter and has the better frame but pretty much everything else is in Heiskanen's favor. The smart players tend to be the best in today's game (provided that they don't have any glaring weaknesses). Heiskanen has proven over and again that his hockey IQ and vision are off the charts and he has elite tools. The height shouldn't be a problem while he'll never be a Chara and he's young enough to bulk up significantly. I don't see any real weaknesses when I look at Miro's game other than the fact that he could improve his shooting. Well I agree about not having any certainties in whether someone can become franchise level D, but at least I can say it's looking pretty good about how things are looking for the kid right now. You should check what Grant McCagg has to say about him (not that everyone agree with his views but I personally consider him pretty good prospect evaluator).

You really think this is a Swede vs Finn thing?
I was one of few who had Heiskanen top 10 before WJC-18 and before Christmas, So don't start it. I couldn't care less what nationality he is.
Liljegren is by far rawer, bigger and his package that he brings on the offensive side of the puck intrigues me more. Which is why i prefer him to Heiskanen. But like i said, that's my opinion. I just don't see Miro ever putting up 50 points in his career consistently. I'm not sold on his offense as much as others are after his WJC-18 tournament which hyped him up to the skies. Nevertheless. A fantastic player that I'm a big fan off. Really the ideal partner for Klingberg to have which makes me happy as a Swede.

Well, an offensively bit better Strålman would be a 40+ point scorer many years, which probably doesn't get you any Norris trophies, but along Heiskanen's defense that would make him a solid #1 in my mind.

Yep which would be fantastic. And I'm very sure he'll reach that. In any case, Stars fans have a gem on their hands.

Off topic question, what's Miros actually size. I've always though he was ~6'-6'1 but EP has him listed at 5'10?

 

[Noma]

Off topic question, what's Miros actually size. I've always though he was ~6'-6'1 but EP has him listed at 5'10?

He was measured at 6' 0.75" and 172 lbs in the Combine.

 

[ijuka]

He was measured at 6' 0.75" and 172 lbs in the Combine.

You really have to wonder what this "he's tiny"-talk is all about. 6'1"(Probably will be listed at 6'2" knowing NHL) at 185 lbs is fine, and he should be gaining some more weight throughout the years.

I guess it's because of EP using info that's been outdated for years, but shouldn't people already expect that?

 

[Zaddy]

You really have to wonder what this "he's tiny"-talk is all about. 6'1"(Probably will be listed at 6'2" knowing NHL) at 185 lbs is fine, and he should be gaining some more weight throughout the years.

I guess it's because of EP using info that's been outdated for years, but shouldn't people already expect that?

I don't know why EP had the outdated listings, as they had the correct ones previously. They seem to be updated now again though.

 

[kelsier]

You really think this is a Swede vs Finn thing?
I was one of few who had Heiskanen top 10 before WJC-18 and before Christmas, So don't start it. I couldn't care less what nationality he is.
Liljegren is by far rawer, bigger and his package that he brings on the offensive side of the puck intrigues me more. Which is why i prefer him to Heiskanen. But like i said, that's my opinion. I just don't see Miro ever putting up 50 points in his career consistently. I'm not sold on his offense as much as others are after his WJC-18 tournament which hyped him up to the skies. Nevertheless. A fantastic player that I'm a big fan off. Really the ideal partner for Klingberg to have which makes me happy as a Swede.

Nope, this has absolutely nothing to do with nationality. Why would it matter to me whether Liljegren was a Swede or an American? Have nothing against the Swedes whatsoever. I brought it up because we've discussed this before and I think you are looking at the wrong markers for what makes a D-man offensively gifted or perhaps what qualities to look for in a gifted D-men in general. Blazing away over the offensive blue line and shooting the puck when there's no one up front to finish the play doesn't equal to offensive creativity, but rather tunnel vision. Even more so when the player in question does that in repeat. Liljegren has had trouble using his team mates and tries to do too much on his own. That's not how the game works, and even less so in the NHL. You also need to not lose your position at your own zone in order to be successful at both ends. As far as I've watched each of the two, it's the difference in hockey IQ where they are worlds apart and that's not something you can teach. A player can learn not to repeat the same mistakes and experience makes one better, yet at the end of the day you either have vision and hockey IQ or you don't. So far I've seen nothing that would give Liljegren advantage on either end of the rink, cause I don't think his shooting ability will cover for the disadvantages in the other aspects of the game.

I'm actually far more impressed about Heiskanen's FEL season than his success at the U18 WJHC. To make it to the first pairing at the level is super rare. I'm 99% confident he will have not only easier transition, but also become the better player, and yes, his ceiling is also higher (I'm leaving 0,5% for a potential career threatening injury and another 0,5% for a chance of being wrong about Liljegren's hockey IQ). There are plenty of big framed D-men that can skate and shoot the puck, but never even make a career in the NHL. Sorry but I'm not sharing your visions about the "could-be" Liljegren.

 

[Luddowich]

Nope, this has absolutely nothing to do with nationality. Why would it matter to me whether Liljegren was a Swede or an American? Have nothing against the Swedes whatsoever. I brought it up because we've discussed this before and I think you are looking at the wrong markers for what makes a D-man offensively gifted or perhaps what qualities to look for in a gifted D-men in general. Blazing away over the offensive blue line and shooting the puck when there's no one up front to finish the play doesn't equal to offensive creativity, but rather tunnel vision. Even more so when the player in question does that in repeat. Liljegren has had trouble using his team mates and tries to do too much on his own. That's not how the game works, and even less so in the NHL. You also need to not lose your position at your own zone in order to be successful at both ends. As far as I've watched each of the two, it's the difference in hockey IQ where they are worlds apart and that's not something you can teach. A player can learn not to repeat the same mistakes and experience makes one better, yet at the end of the day you either have vision and hockey IQ or you don't. So far I've seen nothing that would give Liljegren advantage on either end of the rink, cause I don't think his shooting ability will cover for the disadvantages in the other aspects of the game.

I'm actually far more impressed about Heiskanen's FEL season than his success at the U18 WJHC. To make it to the first pairing at the level is super rare. I'm 99% confident he will have not only easier transition, but also become the better player, and yes, his ceiling is also higher (I'm leaving 0,5% for a potential career threatening injury and another 0,5% for a chance of being wrong about Liljegren's hockey IQ). There are plenty of big framed D-men that can skate and shoot the puck, but never even make a career in the NHL. Sorry but I'm not sharing your visions about the "could-be" Liljegren.

See, that's exactly where our opinion is different we view both Heiskanen and Liljegren totally different, which is good. IMO. Your view of Liljegren is the majorities view. The Liljegren from last year who's play was affected by the mono. And is a lot better than what he displayed.

The problem here is that we're not under rating or overrating Heiskanen, you're just underrating Liljegrens abilities. If you watched Liljegren before last year you'd realize what im talking about. Because you're acting like Liljegren is just a basic player who can't think for himself.
Pre 16/17 is not the same player as he was 16/17. Him getting mono isn't some coincidence.
But hey, that's my opinion and i respect yours.

 

[kelsier]

See, that's exactly where our opinion is different we view both Heiskanen and Liljegren totally different, which is good. IMO. Your view of Liljegren is the majorities view. The Liljegren from last year who's play was affected by the mono. And is a lot better than what he displayed.

The problem here is that we're not under rating or overrating Heiskanen, you're just underrating Liljegrens abilities. If you watched Liljegren before last year you'd realize what im talking about. Because you're acting like Liljegren is just a basic player who can't think for himself.
Pre 16/17 is not the same player as he was 16/17. Him getting mono isn't some coincidence.
But hey, that's my opinion and i respect yours.

Having indifferent opinions is fine and people can co-exist with different views, much like in the real life. A player discussion isn't something to be taken personally (while there are always exceptions to the rule, but this isn't one of those) and even if I disagree with someone's content, that doesn't mean I cannot respect a viewpoint or the poster behind it. Anyway, what comes down to Liljegren I don't think suffering from mono should cloud his decision-making the way it did, you'd simply expect other kind of on-ice issues. Yeah I didn't follow him closely enough the season before and you are right about that. Still, we've seen a lot of similar cases in the recent history where a 16 yo makes some crazy entrance, then suddenly the next season turns out as pancake or the player fails at the next step. Happened to for instance Kylington, Chychrun and Vesalainen (although it seemed like he was getting things to click finally during the U18s). So at the end of the day my concerns about his upside remain pretty valid, and I don't mean that with disrespect. Still it's not too late and I do hope he'll figure it out.

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

Miro Heiskanen is HIFK's lineup today's Champions Hockey League game vs Brynäs IF in Sweden. Heiskanen plays HIFK's 3rd defence pair with Teemu Laakso.