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LD Juuso Valimaki (2017, 16th, CAL)

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Are there any recent examples of defenseman who finished their draft year over a ppg in the WHL or OHL, were over 6'0", and didn't go top 10?
 
Frk It said:
Are there any recent examples of defenseman who finished their draft year over a ppg in the WHL or OHL, were over 6'0", and didn't go top 10?
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TT1 said:
I'm saying you can't compare a ****ing offensive dman's point total to a power forward who was drafted for his goddamn physical tools. Ceci was also a ~PPG dman in his draft year, look at where he got picked and all the dmen who went ahead of him. MDZ was PPG in his draft year, look at where he got drafted. Jeremy Roy was PPG in his draft year, he went in the 2nd round. Rasmus Andersson was PPG in his draft year, he went late 2nd~~~!!!!!! Woopty doo.

Scouts obviously have other factors they have to consider apart from point totals. Use your brain, this should be common sense.

Or do you think every dman who puts up good offensive numbers should be an automatic high draft pick? De Haan was a PPG player in his draft year, do you think he's an offensive dman in the NHL? Ryan Murphy was a PPG++ dman in his draft year, do you think he's a good NHL'er now?

Nylander and Ehlers both got picked after Virtanen and they were both high-end offensive players. Virtanen got picked for his tools, in hindsight it was obviously a bad pick but there are examples of other players (Johansen, Scheifele, Horvat etc.) who ended up being great picks despite their lack of production in their draft year. For your sake i hope you get it this time.. or are you just new to this scouting thing?
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Bunch of those guys are over 6'0.

Rasmus Andersson and Allard are the most recent one that comes to mind. Fred Allard was close to PPG and he went in the 3rd round last year, he's 6'1.
 
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TT1 said:
Bunch of those guys are over 6'0. Rasmus Andersson is the most recent one that comes to mind. Fred Allard was close to PPG and he went in the 3rd round last year, he's 6'1.
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Thanks! Ceci and Andersson are the types of examples I was looking for. Scoring is a bit higher in the Q, no?
 
Frk It said:
Thanks! Ceci and Andersson are the types of examples I was looking for. Scoring is a bit higher in the Q, no?
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I dunno you'd have to check how many goals were scored last year/games. In any case Allard's team (Chicoutimi) was very weak last year, he was 2nd in scoring on his team.
 
TT1 said:
I'm saying you can't compare a ****ing offensive dman's point total to a power forward who was drafted for his goddamn physical tools. Ceci was also a ~PPG dman in his draft year, look at where he got picked and all the dmen who went ahead of him. MDZ was PPG in his draft year, look at where he got drafted. Jeremy Roy was PPG in his draft year, he went in the 2nd round. Rasmus Andersson was PPG in his draft year, he went late 2nd~~~!!!!!! Woopty doo.

Scouts obviously have other factors they have to consider apart from point totals. Use your brain, this should be common sense.

Or do you think every dman who puts up good offensive numbers should be an automatic high draft pick? De Haan was a PPG player in his draft year, do you think he's an offensive dman in the NHL? Ryan Murphy was a PPG++ dman in his draft year, do you think he's a good NHL'er now?

Nylander and Ehlers both got picked after Virtanen and they were both high-end offensive players. Virtanen got picked for his tools, in hindsight it was obviously a bad pick but there are examples of other players (Johansen, Scheifele, Horvat etc.) who ended up being great picks despite their lack of production in their draft year. For your sake i hope you get it this time.. or are you just new to this scouting thing?
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not sure what you're babbling about but you clearly are unhinged. the guy was making a valid point and you start throwing a hissy fit for some reason. sure points aren't everything but when a player with tools as great as you say still can't produce then you have a problem. a forward on the cusp of the top 5 in a draft should be producing way more than barely a PPG and shouldn't be getting outproduced by any Dman, realistically. not sure why you took so much offense to that comment but you must obviously think valimaki isn't as good of a prospect as virtanen was? if that's the case then you probably shouldn't quit your day job. mind you, this is coming from someone who thinks tippett is a top 3 talent so i shouldn't be surprised.
 
portamoral said:
not sure what you're babbling about but you clearly are unhinged. the guy was making a valid point and you start throwing a hissy fit for some reason. sure points aren't everything but when a player with tools as great as you say still can't produce then you have a problem. a forward on the cusp of the top 5 in a draft should be producing way more than barely a PPG and shouldn't be getting outproduced by any Dman, realistically. not sure why you took so much offense to that comment but you must obviously think valimaki isn't as good of a prospect as virtanen was? if that's the case then you probably shouldn't quit your day job. mind you, this is coming from someone who thinks tippett is a top 3 talent so i shouldn't be surprised.
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Read my posts, everything you need to know is there. I gave examples of dmen who were PPG+ and ended up being 2nd round/3rd round picks (or midd 1st to late 1st picks after several other dmen in their draft year).

I never said Valimaki is a bad prospect and i clearly said Virtanen wasn't a good pick. All i said is you can't compare dmen to forwards, especially not to a power forward who was drafted for his tools (i also gave examples of very good NHL'ers who were drafted high after having weak draft years points-wise), it's not black and white.

Instead of rebutting every one of the specific points i made you decided to make vague general statements/attacks because you're clearly out of your element. It's ok tho, you can go back to hockeydb and eliteprospects now.

In regards to Tippett.. well i guess you should go back to TSN.com while you're at it too. Let Button feed you some info so you can act like you know something about prospects. Any person who thinks Rasmussen is a better prospect than Tippett clearly needs to watch more junior league games.
 
Frk It said:
Thanks! Ceci and Andersson are the types of examples I was looking for. Scoring is a bit higher in the Q, no?
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It varies by year. But, out of the 3 CHL leagues, Q scoring tends to be the least transferable to future NHL success. WHL in general is usually the lowest scoring league of the 3, but for whatever reasons, scoring in the OHL has a better co-relation to scoring in the NHL.

As for over 6 feet defenders who were PPG and didn't go top 10? Del Zoto was just a point off, Fowler went 11 (but was a notable faller), Kulikov, and Mathiu Carle.
 
TT1 said:
Read my posts, everything you need to know is there. I gave examples of dmen who were PPG+ and ended up being 2nd round/3rd round picks (or midd 1st to late 1st picks after several other dmen in their draft year).

I never said Valimaki is a bad prospect and i clearly said Virtanen wasn't a good pick. All i said is you can't compare dmen to forwards, especially not to a power forward who was drafted for his tools (i also gave examples of very good NHL'ers who were drafted high after having weak draft years points-wise), it's not black and white.

Instead of rebutting every one of the specific points i made you decided to make vague general statements/attacks because you're clearly out of your element. It's ok tho, you can go back to hockeydb and eliteprospects now.

In regards to Tippett.. well i guess you should go back to TSN.com while you're at it too. Let Button feed you some info so you can act like you know something about prospects. Any person who thinks Rasmussen is a better prospect than Tippett clearly needs to watch more junior league games.
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While a bit extreme in phrasing. While we may disagree on Tippett, I absolutely agree he's a better prospect than Rasmussen.
 
TT1 said:
I never said Valimaki is a bad prospect and i clearly said Virtanen wasn't a good pick. All i said is you can't compare dmen to forwards, especially not to a power forward who was drafted for his tools (i also gave examples of very good NHL'ers who were drafted high after having weak draft years points-wise), it's not black and white.
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since this is what the argument is about, i'm only going to reply to this so you don't get too far off track again.

who even said it was black and white? pretty sure the comment you were replying to didn't even say that. you are grasping at straws here. you are too much of a pretentious internet scouting hipster to admit that what that guy said is a valid argument.

the fact virtanen was a sure fire top 10 pick and valimaki isn't is pretty curious. if anything it just shows that many scouting methods are flawed and put too much emphasis on some things they shouldn't. sure virtanen had some tools but so does valimaki. the difference is one is smart and the other isn't and so their point totals tell you a lot in this case, especially since it's a D vs a forward. whatever bs way you want to spin it, (drafted for power forward tools :laugh:), valimaki has a better argument to go just as high as virtanen did and that was ALL the comment said, yet you chose to be an ass about it for the sake of an argument. and i never once mentioned rasmussen or button (who i trust way more than some random wannabe scout anyway) but i get it, you take this hfboards scouting thing VERY seriously. like i said though, you obviously aren't very good at it and should stick to your day job
 
TT1 said:
You're comparing a dman to a goal scoring winger?
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No... I just wanted to know why he isn't as touted as Virtanen was. From what I've seen from junior tournaments, his defending isn't weak by any means. He was a captain for Finland when they won the u18 WJC too. I was just asking why a two-way d with good size and being able to produce as much as he has with seemingly stellar progression, isn't ranked in the top 10 by any scouting sites. But hey, thanks for this smartass reply, gave me an instant answer and how scouting actually works!
 
SharkInABoloTie said:
where does this kid rank among dmen this draft? Ive seen him ahead of liljgren, but also outside of the first round
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Anywhere from 3rd to 6th depending on who you ask. Makar/Heiskanen have established themselves as the top 2 for now ... Foote/Valimaki/Liljegren/Hague are the next 4 though I personally think Valimaki is the best out of that group.
 
Juuso Välimäki would look just dandy as a Leaf.
If not the flashy skills he has the hockey sense & competitiveness that might even make him worth moving up for.
Hard not to like him.
 
Frk It said:
Are there any recent examples of defenseman who finished their draft year over a ppg in the WHL or OHL, were over 6'0", and didn't go top 10?
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Havent seen Juuso play very much. But why he is ranked so low? He has outproduced Seth Jones for example and seems like a great value pick. Is it because he lacks some flashy skills?
 
He could be gone before the Kings headed for the stage and that wouldn't surprise me the least.
 
BB88 said:
The only team in the top10 I could see being interested is Buffalo.
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Well I wouldn't sign up for that. In the 1st round teams tend to go for the BPA and it's sbsolutely impossible to tell how each of them review him. Has the size, the tools and pedigree while there seems to be question marks with nearly all the predicted top ten pick. In the later rounds you may focus on the need. That is not me saying he's a top 10 pick, but stranger things have happened.
 
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