LD Aron Kiviharju - IFK Helsinki, Liiga (2024, 122nd, MIN) Part2

[ChicagoBullsFan]

New thread older got 1000 posts.

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[LeProspector]

One of the more overhyped pre-draft prospects in recent memory, for sure.

Up there with Aatu Raty, Nick Ebert and Kirill Kabanov.

Here‘s hoping he comes back from injury and finds his game again. But small defenders that can’t skate and haven’t shown progression in a few years scare teams.

 

[Jukurit]

Small, slow, stagnating and injury concerns. He'll probably fall to 2nd round.

 

[LaMasquerade]

Small, slow, stagnating and injury concerns. He'll probably fall to 2nd round.

Wow.. all that, and you still think 2nd round

 

[Jukurit]

Wow.. all that, and you still think 2nd round

Kiviharju has very high hockey IQ. He has a lot of upside. But a lot of risk too. Too much risk for a first rounder.

 

[Czechboy]

I see the new thread is also just going to shit all over him. 4 month injury and daily shitting on!lol

 

[Svedu]

One of the more overhyped pre-draft prospects in recent memory, for sure.

Up there with Aatu Raty, Nick Ebert and Kirill Kabanov.

Here‘s hoping he comes back from injury and finds his game again. But small defenders that can’t skate and haven’t shown progression in a few years scare teams.

Lmao! Ebert was really close to Kiviharjus numbers at the same age and early stage of their careers.

Side note: Wheeler and Maurice ruined the Jets by making Laine feel uncomfortable. The biggest talent they had. Wheeler wished he had Laines shot and skill. Imagine being so much older and such a jealous and bad teammate? Disgrace.

 

[LeProspector]

Lmao! Ebert was really close to Kiviharjus numbers at the same age and early stage of their careers.

Side note: Wheeler and Maurice ruined the Jets by making Laine feel uncomfortable. The biggest talent they had. Wheeler wished he had Laines shot and skill. Imagine being so much older and such a jealous and bad teammate? Disgrace.

Ebert went into his draft year as a potential top-5 selection. He ended up going last overall in that draft, so yeah he was overhyped

 

[Svedu]

Ebert went into his draft year as a potential top-5 selection. He ended up going last overall in that draft, so yeah he was overhyped

And he never achieved same stats as a junior nor was he close to Kiviharju. So much for your comparison lol!

 

[LeProspector]

And he never achieved same stats as a junior nor was he close to Kiviharju. So much for your comparison lol!

Props to you if you’re able to flawlessly compare junior stats across leagues and eras.

even then you‘re still wrong!!! Ebert had achieved and eclipsed Kiviharju‘s stats as a 16 year old, lol,
Ebert as a 16 year old had more points than Kiviharju as a 16 year old. Ebert had an impressive 41 with the Windsor Spitfires meanwhile Kiviharju had a measly 23.

 

[Svedu]

Props to you if you’re able to flawlessly compare junior stats across leagues and eras.

even then you‘re still wrong!!! Ebert had achieved and eclipsed Kiviharju‘s stats as a 16 year old, lol,
Ebert as a 16 year old had more points than Kiviharju as a 16 year old. Ebert had an impressive 41 with the Windsor Spitfires meanwhile Kiviharju had a measly 23.

Kiviharju is playing in a pro league buddy.

 

[LeProspector]

Kiviharju is playing in a pro league buddy.

Alright, fair enough.
that drops Kiviharju’s totals to only 20 points compared to Ebert’s 41

You literally said ”he never had the same stats as a junior“ even though the complete opposite statement is true. Kiviharju never had the same stats at Ebert as a junior.

I think Kiviharju is the better of the two, but the pre-draft hype and falloff of the players is going to be similar, but Kivi isn’t going to fall as far.

 

[Albatros]

Huh, I don't recall any serious source rating Ebert highly. He was athletic and could skate and shoot, but his overall game was never at all impressive nor did he show any such improvement that would have suggested much upside.

 

[LeProspector]

Huh, I don't recall any serious source rating Ebert highly. He was athletic and could skate and shoot, but his overall game was never at all impressive nor did he show any such improvement that would have suggested much upside.

Here was Bob McKenzie’s pre-season top-10:

. Nail Yakupov (Sarnia, OHL)
2. Matt Dumba (Red Deer, WHL)
3. Filip Forsberg (Leksands, SEL)
4. Ryan Murray (Everetts, WHL)
5. Alex Galchenyuk (Sarnia, OHL)
6. Mikhail Grigorenko (Quebec, QMJHL)
7. Morgan Rielly (Moose Jaw, WHL)
8. Nick Ebert (Windsor, OHL)
9. Derek Pouliot (Portland, WHL)
T10. Matia Marcantuoni (Kitchener, OHL)
T10. Jacob Trouba (US NTDP)

then here was a consolidated top-5 during the preseason with some of the most reputable outlets at the time:

 

[Albatros]

There was no such consensus about Ebert at all, if anyone mentioned him it was an outlier. For example the NHL Central Scouting didn't have him on their OHL preliminary list at all, then 70th among North American skaters mid-term and 96th in the final version.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

I do remember Ebert having hype 2 years from the draft but not on draft season anymore. It's not the same as Kiviharju. Anyway that poster has been shitting on Aron for a few weeks now. Kind of sad to spend so much energy on a prospect you don't rate and most people agree he's not a likely high first round pick anymore

 

[LeProspector]

There was no such consensus about Ebert at all, if anyone mentioned him it was an outlier. For example the NHL Central Scouting didn't have him on their OHL preliminary list at all, then 70th among North American skaters mid-term and 96th in the final version.

if you decide to refuse the past, sure that’s on you, and you are right, there wasn’t Too much consensus for Ebery at the tim, this right here states Ebert was a decisive player at the time. Most every preliminary list out there has been lost as links are now dead. But in this article written by SB Nation dated September 25th 2011 - it states this: “

• Nail Yakupov is the clear-cut #1 right now. In the 9 lists, he's ranked first overall six times. He's ranked no lower than second by anyone.
• Mikhail Grigorenko is ranked #1 in the other three lists, but he's also ranked as low as 11th, 9th and 6th, so he falls behind Ryan Murray in the overall vote as Murray is ranked no lower than 6th by anyone.
• Only two players get a #1, but six different players are ranked 2nd overall: Nail Yakupov, Ryan Murray, Mikhail Grigorenko, Nick Ebert, Filip Forsberg, Matthew Dumba.
• Nick Ebert is the most divisive player on the list. Everyone's got him ranked in the top 25, but he ranges from 2nd overall to 23rd.
• The Edmonton Oil Kings Griffin Reinhart got no love from Bob McKenzie (14th), but is as high as #4 on two different lists.
• Mathew Dumba is 2nd on McKenzie's list, 3rd on Button's list and no higher than 7th on anyone else's list.”

2012 NHL Draft Top 30 Consensus List - Bob McKenzie's List Added

Bob McKenzie has Nail Yakupov 1st overall, but his #2 is a surprise

www.coppernblue.com

 

[LeProspector]

I do remember Ebert having hype 2 years from the draft but not on draft season anymore. It's not the same as Kiviharju. Anyway that poster has been shitting on Aron for a few weeks now. Kind of sad to spend so much energy on a prospect you don't rate and most people agree he's not a likely high first round pick anymore

It’s funny man, you say I’m shitting on him yet I’m just being realistic with the expectations I have for this player and am calling out how he has been perceived up until this point in time. And up until this point I have been RIGHT!

 

[Albatros]

if you decide to refuse the past, sure that’s on you, and you are right, there wasn’t Too much consensus for Ebery at the tim, this right here states Ebert was a decisive player at the time. Most every preliminary list out there has been lost as links are now dead. But in this article written by SB Nation dated September 25th 2011 - it states this: “

• Nail Yakupov is the clear-cut #1 right now. In the 9 lists, he's ranked first overall six times. He's ranked no lower than second by anyone.
• Mikhail Grigorenko is ranked #1 in the other three lists, but he's also ranked as low as 11th, 9th and 6th, so he falls behind Ryan Murray in the overall vote as Murray is ranked no lower than 6th by anyone.
• Only two players get a #1, but six different players are ranked 2nd overall: Nail Yakupov, Ryan Murray, Mikhail Grigorenko, Nick Ebert, Filip Forsberg, Matthew Dumba.
• Nick Ebert is the most divisive player on the list. Everyone's got him ranked in the top 25, but he ranges from 2nd overall to 23rd.
• The Edmonton Oil Kings Griffin Reinhart got no love from Bob McKenzie (14th), but is as high as #4 on two different lists.
• Mathew Dumba is 2nd on McKenzie's list, 3rd on Button's list and no higher than 7th on anyone else's list.”

2012 NHL Draft Top 30 Consensus List - Bob McKenzie's List Added

Bob McKenzie has Nail Yakupov 1st overall, but his #2 is a surprise

www.coppernblue.com

Again, the NHL Central Scouting didn't have him in top 25 even among OHL skaters (didn't make the list at all), never mind the overall ranking. If some stat watching hack thought otherwise that's their shame.

 

[LeProspector]

Again, the NHL Central Scouting didn't have him in top 25 even among OHL skaters (didn't make the list at all), never mind the overall ranking. If some stat watching hack thought otherwise that's their shame.

So Bob McKenzie, all the NHL scouts he polled and Craig Button are Stat watching hacks?

Ebert fell, just like Kiviharju will this year.

 

[Svedu]

Alright, fair enough.
that drops Kiviharju’s totals to only 20 points compared to Ebert’s 41

You literally said ”he never had the same stats as a junior“ even though the complete opposite statement is true. Kiviharju never had the same stats at Ebert as a junior.

I think Kiviharju is the better of the two, but the pre-draft hype and falloff of the players is going to be similar, but Kivi isn’t going to fall as far.

Nice one, now your comparing OHL to Liiga... Kiviharju is playing in Liiga. Just take a look at Halttunen. Zero points in Liiga or something and more than PPG in OHL.
Ebert played in the OHL at the same age and wasn't close to being PPG at that level lmao! Are you really being serious or trolling.

Season 12/13, 38 points in 68 games and -39 in +/-. Brother, that's no where close to Kiviharju.
Just please, stop making a fool out of yourself.

 

[LeProspector]

Nice one, now your comparing OHL to Liiga... Kiviharju is playing in Liiga. Just take a look at Halttunen. Zero points in Liiga or something and more than PPG in OHL.
Ebert played in the OHL at the same age and wasn't close to being PPG at that level lmao! Are you really being serious or trolling.

Season 12/13, 38 points in 68 games and -39 in +/-. Brother, that's no where close to Kiviharju.
Just please, stop making a fool out of yourself.

I never once said Ebert was better. In fact, I said Kiviharju was the better of the two. I was replying to you after you were saying he never had the same stats as a junior, and i believe I proved that he in fact, did have better stats as a junior.

Kiviharju is the better player, no doubt. I only compared the two players since they were both overhyped before their draft years. This conversation ends here. It’s not going anywhere productive.

 

[Albatros]

So Bob McKenzie, all the NHL scouts he polled and Craig Button are Stat watching hacks?

Basically, yes. Although some may not have been aware of Ebert's off-ice issues, but even his on-ice performance was basically just PP quarterbacking.

 

[Svedu]

This conversation ends here. It’s not going anywhere productive.

The irony reading this from you. Thanks for making me laugh.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I see the new thread is also just going to shit all over him. 4 month injury and daily shitting on!lol

There’s one thread like this for every draft. They’ve planted their flag and decided they are going to ruin the discussion on this website surrounding this poor kid this season.