Lavi

[Row I Goon]

Both Laviolette and Gallant do/did things I don't agree with but it's hard to seriously suggest they're "out of their depth" in the NHL.

He could bench Zibanejad, Trouba, Kreider, Miller, half of the rest of the team, whatever, and we as fans would feel better, but I wouldn't actually expect it to change anything. I think the examples where benching your top guys actually works are absolutely dwarfed by the examples where nothing positive happens or things get even worse.

Frankly I don’t wish to get into a flame war with you or anyone on the finer points of dealing with sub-optimal performance. Nor do I find any value on us dredging out examples of the +/- on benching top players.

However, I wish to ask you seriously the following - do you disagree with following - nothing Lavi has done so far has worked to turn the slump around?

If you don’t, and he is out of ideas, then with the fullest respect, I stand by my former comment.

It’s still early here and I’m only one coffee into the day and had a mild cardiac event less than a week ago. If my words don’t convey the purity of my intent that’s on me.

 

[Cuckoo4Kakko]

It isn’t entirely coaching. The vets are weak willed. We all know this.

That being said, he is making lines and pairings that we know don’t work. That HE KNOWS they don’t work. That he is told that the analytics show they don’t work. He doesn’t care. He’s got the ghost of Mika playing 19 minutes. I don’t blame Mika for that. That’s the coach. Mika missing the empty net when he shouldn’t be on the ice is icing on the cake. Lavi is lost. Hire someone young and analytics based.

 

[nyr2k2]

Frankly I don’t wish to get into a flame war with you or anyone on the finer points of dealing with sub-optimal performance. Nor do I find any value on us dredging out examples of the +/- on benching top players.

However, I wish to ask you seriously the following - do you disagree with following - nothing Lavi has done so far has worked to turn the slump around?

If you don’t, and he is out of ideas, then with the fullest respect, I stand by my former comment.

It’s still early here and I’m only one coffee into the day and had a mild cardiac event less than a week ago. If my words don’t convey the purity of my intent that’s on me.

I don't know why you're talking about a flame war, LOL. I didn't flame you in any way.

Laviolette has been a successful NHL coach for like 25 years. He helped keep the team on track last season including navigating that terrible stretch in January, winning the President's Trophy and only losing to the eventual champions. He was one of the top vote-getters for the Jack Adams. I don't think you need me to recap all this but I am anyway.

So, what if he IS out of ideas this year? Maybe it is time to move on from him, I don't know. But unless "out of your depth" means something different to you than it does to me, I think it's pretty clear that Laviolette is one of the top coaches in the game and his inability to figure out this group of sad sacks doesn't change that. I'm not sure Scotty Bowman could come in and suddenly coax something different from them.

 

[ReddestRum]

It’s got very little to do with coaching.

How many coaches are we going to go through before something is done with the core? It's record time that we're turning on Lavi like it's the coaches out there playing AHL hockey.

 

[Row I Goon]

I don't know why you're talking about a flame war, LOL. I didn't flame you in any way.

Laviolette has been a successful NHL coach for like 25 years. He helped keep the team on track last season including navigating that terrible stretch in January, winning the President's Trophy and only losing to the eventual champions. He was one of the top vote-getters for the Jack Adams. I don't think you need me to recap all this but I am anyway.

So, what if he IS out of ideas this year? Maybe it is time to move on from him, I don't know. But unless "out of your depth" means something different to you than it does to me, I think it's pretty clear that Laviolette is one of the top coaches in the game and his inability to figure out this group of sad sacks doesn't change that. I'm not sure Scotty Bowman could come in and suddenly coax something different from them.

“out of depth” in my book is a coach who thinks blending the lines/pairs is his only option and so far that’s all I’ve seen him do and reduce the TOI (for some). Frankly, his “25 years experience” means exactly shit right now. We’re on a 5-game losing streak with a team that made the ECF last season and we don’t look like snapping it soon. Lavi looks as lost on the bench as Mika and co. If he’s out of ideas, he’s out of his depth, record notwithstanding.

 

[Row I Goon]

How many coaches are we going to go through before something is done with the core? It's record time that we're turning on Lavi like it's the coaches out there playing AHL hockey.

It’s not JUST the coaches. But unless there’s a secret “no bench/scratch” agreement then rolling the same lines and pairs is on the coach.

Call up some kids. I’d rather see more of the zip from Berard and Mancini than the bullshit from Mika and Trouba and Lindgren.

 

[ReddestRum]

It’s not JUST the coaches. But unless there’s a secret “no bench/scratch” agreement then rolling the same lines and pairs is on the coach.

Call up some kids. I’d rather see more of the zip from Berard and Mancini than the bullshit from Mika and Trouba and Lindgren.

Agree with you here. The coaches might not be playing, but there seems to be some coddling going on with this, "Let's keep running it back exactly the same" mentality. Should've wholesaled two years ago for a proper rebuild around the kids.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

How many coaches are we going to go through before something is done with the core? It's record time that we're turning on Lavi like it's the coaches out there playing AHL hockey.

I absolutely hate this line of thinking. The coach isn't the one out there playing bad so we can't blame the coach. So why have coaches at all? Its his job to make the team play better. If he can't, then he shouldn't have the job.

 

[NickyFotiu]

No alternative stats is going to cure this. First you have to figure out what the problem actually is. There is a lack of effort and a lack of confidence. The Trouba stuff may be playing a role as well. I suspect there are multiple problems going on at the same time. The only real options a coach has is sitting some guys and lowering minutes. What Lav has to do is figure a way to build the teams confidence back. The only way I know to do that is not looking at the next 60 minutes but having guys look at their very next shift. Simplify the game. Start in our own end. The guys that are not giving a full effort need to sit or have much lower minutes but there are only so many moves that can be made. Its not a matter of losing 5 straight. Its the matter of how they have been outshot. Lav and his assistant coaches know this game. Lets see if they can find a way to get in to these guys head. This team is not a Cup team but its also not this bad. I'd start limiting shift lengths. Tell the guys you are only going to be out there for 30 seconds so you might as well skate for those 30 seconds.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I absolutely hate this line of thinking. The coach isn't the one out there playing bad so we can't blame the coach. So why have coaches at all? Its his job to make the team play better. If he can't, then he shouldn't have the job.

You can blame the coach if you choose. I personally do not know what Laci is saying in the locker room at this time but just switching coaches rarely cures real team problems. Look at the Jets (football). They fired their coach when the team was 2-2 I think. They have won 1 game since then.

 

[ReddestRum]

I absolutely hate this line of thinking. The coach isn't the one out there playing bad so we can't blame the coach. So why have coaches at all? Its his job to make the team play better. If he can't, then he shouldn't have the job.

4 coaches in ten years with the same team problems in that amount of time doesn't seem like a heavy coach-issue problem to me.

 

[SeanAveryTheGreatOne]

It wasn't Gallant. It isn't Laviolette.

Anyone saying it wasn't Gallant did not watch our playoff series against the Debs. We literally had no system. We got blown out in game 7 by all metrics, and he got up there and said "it could have gone either way."

As for Lavi, the season is 1/4th of the way over, and somehow, we occupy a playoff spot. You have to have the balls to scratch Mika and call up some literal-who to play at this point.

 

[LORDE]

“out of depth” in my book is a coach who thinks blending the lines/pairs is his only option and so far that’s all I’ve seen him do and reduce the TOI (for some). Frankly, his “25 years experience” means exactly shit right now. We’re on a 5-game losing streak with a team that made the ECF last season and we don’t look like snapping it soon. Lavi looks as lost on the bench as Mika and co. If he’s out of ideas, he’s out of his depth, record notwithstanding.

Out of his depth, means he's in over his head. Inexperience or flat out incapable of doing the job.

@nyr2k2 gave you his resume & it's clear he isn't out of his depth.

All this is to say that it's the players & NOT the coach.

As easy as it is to fire a coach, I really don't think Drury will this time & IF he does, nothing significant will change until someone(s) from the "core" are dealt.

 

[LionsHeart]

It’s the players and the way the team is constructed. Special teams and goaltending have covered a lot of their issues over the years.

 

[Levitate]

Lavis out of ideas on how to get the vets he was given to play at the level he needs them to in order for the team to win
This team has quit on another coach after 1 year, it’s not the coaches.

 

[Bob Richards]

Not saying he's blameless or god's gift to coaching but I'm pretty uninterested in witch hunting Laviolette for this.

For as much shit as he got, I could never bring myself to hate Dave Quinn. For as much shit as he got, I couldn't bring myself to hate Gerard Gallant. At this point I am outright refusing to hate Laviolette almost entirely out of spite.

This core sucks now. We've been running them back for years and their limitations and ceiling seem very obvious to me.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Not saying he's blameless or god's gift to coaching but I'm pretty uninterested in witch hunting Laviolette for this.

For as much shit as he got, I could never bring myself to hate Dave Quinn. For as much shit as he got, I couldn't bring myself to hate Gerard Gallant. At this point I am outright refusing to hate Laviolette almost entirely out of spite.

This core sucks now. We've been running them back for years and their limitations and ceiling seem very obvious to me.

Yeah but there's a difference between maximizing the ceiling like we did last year and maximizing the floor like we've done so far this year.

 

[DanielBrassard]

How many coaches are we going to go through before something is done with the core? It's record time that we're turning on Lavi like it's the coaches out there playing AHL hockey.

Exactly, how many coaches can one group of players have? This would be 4 in less than 5 years if they fired Laviolette. They haven’t been a legitimately good 5v5 team for any of them, which is where a coach would have the most impact. At some point the blame must be put on the players.

 

[bobbop]

Drury and Laviolette are buddies. That will get him through this season but not much beyond that.

That said, in the media business you usually get to make two major hires. First Gallant and then Lavy. The third hire is uauallly your replacement.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

If we're going to go there, Drury should be fired rather than Laviolette. Why did we lose last year? Because our 5v5 play was rather atrocious.

Why are we losing this year? Because the PP has dried up and can no longer mask that we're probably not a playoff team with an average PP.

Our solution to the problems we had last year was Riley Smith, Sam Carrick and Zac Jones.

 

[markymarc1215]

If this organization can trade Brian Leetch for garbage after being the best player in franchise history for 15 years, they should be able to trade anyone without a NMC on this team. And its time for Drury to walk the walk.

 

[Wtp99]

Lav. should resign quite honestly , Maurice did it a few years ago.

Resign, fired all the same
He lost this team. Need someone like Berube, who will kick them in their collective asses

I don't know what Lavi is supposed to do when the entire vet core of this team can't find it in themselves to give a f***

Give them a ticket to the pressbox, sit their butts, give them 4th line minutes

 

[NickyFotiu]

If this organization can trade Brian Leetch for garbage after being the best player in franchise history for 15 years, they should be able to trade anyone without a NMC on this team. And its time for Drury to walk the walk.

Think the goal should be a good trade not trading for garbage.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

Goals are 25-8 with none of Trouba/Lindgren/Mika on the ice. Laviolette is letting 3 players tank the team

 

[Row I Goon]

“Out of his depth”, “definition of insanity” - I won’t play word games or split hairs on dictionary meanings of phrases or words. Resumes, equally, mean exactly shit to me. If you’re gonna cite Lavi’s resume as a justification that he is currently both capable and competent I could equally cite Mika’s - and we’d both be wrong. Both parties right now to me, along with others, look like they don’t belong at this level.

There’s a lot wrong in the team right now, and I’ll stand on my earlier declaration that nothing Lavi is doing now is showing me has an idea on how to snap this losing streak. He’s done almost everything BUT sit the key culprits. If he can’t/won’t do that then he’s not the guy. If Drury can’t/won’t make him do something then he isn’t either. I guess the only thing we agree on are the names of the worst 3 or 4 players right now….and their impact on the team.

Apologies if I’ve pissed anyone off with my candour. I’m tired and medicated. No malice is intended.