Lanny McDonald or Rick Middleton

[Dennis Bonvie]

Lanny McDonald is in the Hall of Fame. Rick Middleton is not.

Very similar numbers in the same era, though very different styles. Is Lanny in because he got to 500 goals (exactly) and 1,000 point, or was it just the mustache?
Is Middleton not in because he fell just short of those numbers? Did Lanny's one Cup put him over the top and Middleton's failure to get one keep him out?

Who was the better player?

 

[Big Phil]

Man I don't know, it's close. McDonald is often described as a very weak entry into the HHOF and in some circles shouldn't be in there. Middleton is always described as being among the best NOT to be inducted and it wouldn't be a travesty if he was in there either.

On closer analysis you have to give credit to Middleton because he was chosen both times over McDonald for the 1981 and 1984 Canada Cups. For sure Middleton was the better playoff performer but McDonald might have the best season (66g 98 points). Middleton hit 100 points twice though and McDonald didn't do it once.

Individually I think if you had both on the table you might see a majority choosing Middleton over Lanny. I think I would by a pinch. But I might be wrong see how the poll goes. Good choice though


I don't think that Cup SHOULD have any bearing on McDonald's career. But in the eyes of the voters I think it did. He should never have been a first ballot HHOFer but he was. He was a role player on that '89 Cup team in Calgary. And McDonald had a bad start and a bad finish to his career as he saw his stats plummet. Middleton was more steady throughout his career.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

IMO Middleton was the better hockey player. McDonald was the better goalscorer, but lost in time is that Middleton was an excellent checker. Vastly superior to McDonald in that area. Middleton was also a better play maker and rivaled Denis Savard in one on one dipsy doodle play.

Many people thought Middleton was the best all-round RW in the early to mid 80's.

 

[seventieslord]

I took McDonald, but I think it's really close. I agree with Phil that McDonald is a bit of a weaker HHOFer and Middleton is one of the stronger hall snubs.

 

[raleh]

This is a strange poll. In the last ATD, GBC and I had a fairly lengthy discussion (by our standards) about whether we should take Lanny or Nifty to play RW with Max Bentley. It ended up not mattering, because after we decided on McDonald he was snapped up and we ended up going with Middleton.

I was really pushing for McDonald because I think he provides a bit more as far as intangibles are concerned. He was a very good (I was going to say great but refrained) leader, was a better goal scorer, and brought a physical element that Middleton lacks and that we covet. We thought McDonald could wear a letter for us; in the end Middleton wore an A, but I don't think it was as much of a no-brainer as McDonald would have been. But I think that physical play aside, it's a razor thin edge to Lanny.

 

[greatgazoo]

playoff ppg:
middleton .877
mcdonald .717

regular season ppg
middleton .983
mcdonald .905

IMO, Lanny enjoyed the notoriety that Toronto players get when they play well in the centre of the hockey-media-universe and his 6 and a half seasons there totally inflate his worth.

Put Middleton in the Leafs uniform for that long and he's in the hall. No doubt.

 

[MS]

IMO, Lanny enjoyed the notoriety that Toronto players get when they play well in the centre of the hockey-media-universe and his 6 and a half seasons there totally inflate his worth.

Put Middleton in the Leafs uniform for that long and he's in the hall. No doubt.

I agree in principle, but I think his Calgary years actually helped more than his Toronto years.

In the final 5-6 years of his career in Calgary, McDonald became probably *the* most beloved, universally liked player in the league - for his moustache, for his character, for his work with the Special Olympics. And him winning the Cup in his final season was one of the most storybook NHL moments of the past 30 years.

And, yeah, I agree completely that if you gave a person like Dino Ciccarelli McDonald's career, he wouldn't be in with what McDonald did.

_________

As for McDonald vs. Middleton, the tipping point for me is their all-around games.

Middleton finished as high as 4th in Selke voting and top-10 a couple other years. He was considered one of the best two-way players in the game in the early 1980s. McDonald was never considered a terribly good defensive player, and wasn't a regular PK guy in the final 12 seasons of his career.

Offensively, they're pretty much neck-and-neck, but when you factor in defensive play Middleton has the clear advantage.

Middleton also finished 4th in Hart voting in his best year, something McDonald never came close to accomplishing.

 

[tony d]

Rick Middleton

 

[Dark Shadows]

I agree in principle, but I think his Calgary years actually helped more than his Toronto years.

In the final 5-6 years of his career in Calgary, McDonald became probably *the* most beloved, universally liked player in the league - for his moustache, for his character, for his work with the Special Olympics. And him winning the Cup in his final season was one of the most storybook NHL moments of the past 30 years.

And, yeah, I agree completely that if you gave a person like Dino Ciccarelli McDonald's career, he wouldn't be in with what McDonald did.

_________

As for McDonald vs. Middleton, the tipping point for me is their all-around games.

Middleton finished as high as 4th in Selke voting and top-10 a couple other years. He was considered one of the best two-way players in the game in the early 1980s. McDonald was never considered a terribly good defensive player, and wasn't a regular PK guy in the final 12 seasons of his career.

Offensively, they're pretty much neck-and-neck, but when you factor in defensive play Middleton has the clear advantage.

Middleton also finished 4th in Hart voting in his best year, something McDonald never came close to accomplishing.

2nded. Middleton wins this one every time with me

 

[Canadiens1958]

Right Team.......

Lanny McDonald is in the Hall of Fame. Rick Middleton is not.

Very similar numbers in the same era, though very different styles. Is Lanny in because he got to 500 goals (exactly) and 1,000 point, or was it just the mustache?
Is Middleton not in because he fell just short of those numbers? Did Lanny's one Cup put him over the top and Middleton's failure to get one keep him out?

Who was the better player?

Lanny McDonald's style was tailor made for the teams he played for. Solid player who could produce if put in a scorers role, yet enough of a playmaker to keep teams honest. His defense was sufficient. Post season play was solid, contributed to a Stanley Cup Championship, scored some key goals contributed to a few upsets.

Rick Middleton put up similar numbers. Defense was above average. Playmaking was somewhat weak. Playing in Boston with Park and Bourque, a scoring right winger should have produced greater assist totals.Puck movement and choices were not always the best. Post season play was solid but under appreciated since the Bruins did not have significant post season success.

Feel that both are HHOF worthy. Better player? Depends on the team and the specific needs.

 

[MS]

Lanny McDonald's style was tailor made for the teams he played for. Solid player who could produce if put in a scorers role, yet enough of a playmaker to keep teams honest. His defense was sufficient. Post season play was solid, contributed to a Stanley Cup Championship, scored some key goals contributed to a few upsets.

Rick Middleton put up similar numbers. Defense was above average. Playmaking was somewhat weak. Playing in Boston with Park and Bourque, a scoring right winger should have produced greater assist totals.Puck movement and choices were not always the best. Post season play was solid but under appreciated since the Bruins did not have significant post season success.

Seems like an odd contradiction here.

Middleton averaged well over 50 assists/season during his 7-year prime from 1978-1985.

McDonald cracked 50 assists in a season once, and his career assist totals are substantially worse than Middleton's.

To claim that a RW who averaged 50+ assists/season through the main portion of his career was a 'poor playmaker' is a very odd statement. Especially given that his role in his best years was to be the finisher on a line with Barry Pederson as the playmaking center.

 

[lextune]

Nifty. And I think it is pretty clear cut.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Right Point

Seems like an odd contradiction here.

Middleton averaged well over 50 assists/season during his 7-year prime from 1978-1985.

McDonald cracked 50 assists in a season once, and his career assist totals are substantially worse than Middleton's.

To claim that a RW who averaged 50+ assists/season through the main portion of his career was a 'poor playmaker' is a very odd statement. Especially given that his role in his best years was to be the finisher on a line with Barry Pederson as the playmaking center.

The Bruins power play during Rick Middleton's career in Boston was generated by Brad Park then Ray Bourque. At even strength the line Middleton played on was often supported by Park or Bourque. Within this context Middleton's assist totals are misleading.

An analogy would be Yves Racine. Playing in Detroit with Yzerman and Philadelphia with Lindros he had very high assist totals but once he went to teams without a dominating center his assist totals dropped and Yves Racine was exposed.

 

[crazyforhockey]

Im a huge Lanny fan,and didnt care for middleton because he played for Boston against the habs........Middleton always seemed to score the big goals to either tie the game or win....both should be in.

Lanny numbers would have been better if not banished to the terrible rockies for three years..........also he was a feriocous hitter...at 180 lbs soaking wet he could hit

Rick was hampered by back proplems later in his career.........

should ask don cherry as he coached both Rick in Bos and Lanny in Colorado

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

Im a huge Lanny fan,and didnt care for middleton because he played for Boston against the habs........Middleton always seemed to score the big goals to either tie the game or win....both should be in.

Lanny numbers would have been better if not banished to the terrible rockies for three years..........also he was a feriocous hitter...at 180 lbs soaking wet he could hit

Rick was hampered by back proplems later in his career.........

should ask don cherry as he coached both Rick in Bos and Lanny in Colorado

Middleton is one Cherry's favourites amongst players he's coached. His goals were a regular on RockemSockem videos back in the day. So I think he'd go with Nifty.

 

[raleh]

Middleton is one Cherry's favourites amongst players he's coached. His goals were a regular on RockemSockem videos back in the day. So I think he'd go with Nifty.

In the two of his books that I've read, he talks about how much he loved both of them. He'd probably just say they were both the best. And that "Wendel Clark is as good with no backs as most guys is with one"...

 

[Canadiens1958]

Steve Shutt

I'll throw in a contemporary left winger from the era - Steve Shutt as a counterpoint to the discussion.

Overall numbers not as impressive, not as physical, not as good a playmaker, not as good defensively as either McDonald or Middleton but a HHOFer mainly because of the position he played and the contributions to multiple Stanley Cup Championships. Also head to head he tended to outplay McDonald and Middleton.