Value of: Landeskog vs JVR

[Legend123]

When you say points, you mean decimal points right

I just proved in those same stats, that JVR is better relatively to his teammates. Even though I've stated JVR is inferior defensively to Gallagher, so I'm not even sure what you're arguing.

oh my are u serious?? Those decimals represent huge differences.

 

[Kelly]

oh my are u serious?? Those decimals represent huge differences.

Oh my is right.

How many deceminal points = 1 Corsi event ???

And are you just gonna ignore the relative stats that clearly show, relative to their teammates their possession stats are very similar???

 

[Legend123]

Oh my is right.

How many deceminal points = 1 Corsi event ???

And are you just gonna ignore the relative stats that clearly show, relative to their teammates their possession stats are very similar???

he is better in all 3 aspects, how can u just ignore that?

 

[tony d]

I think Landeskog would command more.

 

[Kelly]

he is better in all 3 aspects, how can u just ignore that?

Ok, so you clearly don't understand corsi.

Corsi = shot attempts at 5v5.

Corsi against (CA), or shot suppression = shot attempts against while you are on the ice.
Corsi for (CF), shot generation = shot attempts for while you are on the ice.
Corsi differential (CD), possession = Corsi For / (Corsi For + Corsi Against)

So I mean in raw possession statistics, Gallagher is actually only better in 2 aspects, being that the third aspect is just the differential between the first two.

Anyway the rel stats, are just a way to take out the advantage of playing on a better team, than say, playing on the Maple Leafs. It's calculated by;
Relative Corsi Number = Corsi Number of player - Corsi Number of Team when player not on ice

In my opinion, a more fair way of comparing players possession stats on different teams, and as I pointed earlier, JVR actually has better relative possession stats.. Which should tell you the advanced stats are close, even though Gallagher is a more 200ft player than JVR.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Embarrassing for you.

Watch JVR play, and recently (last 3yrs) points wise it hasn't been close, as I have proved above.

That Pyatt comparison though, hahaha. That's like me saying Sedins are similar to Wellwood, both skilled players who don't use the body, though Sedins have put up more points. It's just so far off. It honestly doesn't even deserve a reply

Last three years,

JVR- .72- great offensively. Horrible in his own end. Three years older.

Gallagher- .59- Good in both ends. Three years younger.

Like I said I take the offensive shortcomings if it means a player good in both ends.

Also curious who gets more O zone starts between the two players?


I was comparing a good player to a ok player, your comparing two elite future HOF's to a bum. Oh yah totally similar....

Also JVR and Pyatt have the same pedigree, same size and same level of defense.

Other than being non-physical (which really isn't true about the Sedin's any more) what comparable's do the Sedin's and Wellwood have?

Wellwood was drafted in the 5th round, he is smaller than the Sedin's, he is the definition of non physical to the point where he never even took penalties. Oh yes though totally the same comparison as mine.......

 

[Legend123]

Ok, so you clearly don't understand corsi.

Corsi = shot attempts at 5v5.

Corsi against (CA), or shot suppression = shot attempts against while you are on the ice.
Corsi for (CF), shot generation = shot attempts for while you are on the ice.
Corsi differential (CD), possession = Corsi For / (Corsi For + Corsi Against)

So I mean in raw possession statistics, Gallagher is actually only better in 2 aspects, being that the third aspect is just the differential between the first two.

Anyway the rel stats, are just a way to take out the advantage of playing on a better team, than say, playing on the Maple Leafs. It's calculated by;
Relative Corsi Number = Corsi Number of player - Corsi Number of Team when player not on ice

In my opinion, a more fair way of comparing players possession stats on different teams, and as I pointed earlier, JVR actually has better relative possession stats.. Which should tell you the advanced stats are close, even though Gallagher is a more 200ft player than JVR.

So far Ive provided numbers and links to back up my claims on why Gallagher is a more effective player,
If you wanna use ur method to claim JvR is as effective as Gally, then provide numbers and links on CD and Corsi rel.

 

[Kelly]

So far Ive provided numbers and links to back up my claims on why Gallagher is a more effective player,
If you wanna use ur method to claim JvR is as effective as Gally, then provide numbers and links on CD and Corsi rel.

I'm not claiming JVR > Gallagher because of these stats, just wanted to show the possession stats are actually close, when using relative stats. When you were saying that Gallagher blows JVR out of the water, which just isn't the case.

I have posted them, see last page.. For reference... https://puckalytics.com

JVR-
CF60 Rel - 8.54
CA60 Rel - -3.02
CF% Rel - 4.86

Gallagher-
CF60 Rel - 9.88
CA60 Rel - -0.11
CF% Rel - 4.02

Oh, and I'm not too sure where you've gotten your stats from. But looking in terms of raw corsi differential, they're actually pretty close.

Cf% - JVR - 54.61
cf% - Gallagher - 55.94

So yeah, your earlier statement of "advanced stats aren't even close" is wrong, no matter how many decimal points you use

Last three years,

JVR- .72- great offensively. Horrible in his own end. Three years older.

Gallagher- .59- Good in both ends. Three years younger.

Like I said I take the offensive shortcomings if it means a player good in both ends.

Also curious who gets more O zone starts between the two players?


I was comparing a good player to a ok player, your comparing two elite future HOF's to a bum. Oh yah totally similar....

Also JVR and Pyatt have the same pedigree, same size and same level of defense.

Other than being non-physical (which really isn't true about the Sedin's any more) what comparable's do the Sedin's and Wellwood have?

Wellwood was drafted in the 5th round, he is smaller than the Sedin's, he is the definition of non physical to the point where he never even took penalties. Oh yes though totally the same comparison as mine.......

I countered your ****** comparison with another ****** comparison. JVR matched Pyatts career totals in 50% of the games. Give me a break, if you're being serious with that, then I feel sorry for you.

Just because their big, and don't lay out monstrous hits doesn't make it a good comparison, sorry. For the record, JVR uses his size all the time, just uses it in different ways then laying huge hits.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

I'm not claiming JVR > Gallagher because of these stats, just wanted to show the possession stats are actually close, when using relative stats. When you were saying that Gallagher blows JVR out of the water, which just isn't the case.

I have posted them, see last page.. For reference... https://puckalytics.com

JVR-
CF60 Rel - 8.54
CA60 Rel - -3.02
CF% Rel - 4.86

Gallagher-
CF60 Rel - 9.88
CA60 Rel - -0.11
CF% Rel - 4.02

Oh, and I'm not too sure where you've gotten your stats from. But looking in terms of raw corsi differential, they're actually pretty close.

Cf% - JVR - 54.61
cf% - Gallagher - 55.94

So yeah, your earlier statement of "advanced stats aren't even close" is wrong, no matter how many decimal points you use


I countered your ****** comparison with another ****** comparison. JVR matched Pyatts career totals in 50% of the games. Give me a break, if you're being serious with that, then I feel sorry for you.

Just because their big, and don't lay out monstrous hits doesn't make it a good comparison, sorry. For the record, JVR uses his size all the time, just uses it in different ways then laying huge hits.

Two way offensive players win cups, because they can play under pressure in their own end, we have seen what JVR does in his own end.....

Also how about where they were drafted? How about each being pretty bad defensively? Are those things that are comparable? I said JVr is better offensively.

Your comparison was way off, mine was at least applicable, if you can't see that I feel sorry for you.

 

[The Podium]

Two way offensive players win cups, because they can play under pressure in their own end, we have seen what JVR does in his own end.....

Also how about where they were drafted? How about each being pretty bad defensively? Are those things that are comparable? I said JVr is better offensively.

Your comparison was way off, mine was at least applicable, if you can't see that I feel sorry for you.

The Sedin twins remind me more of Princess Peach than Kyle Wellwood, mainly because peaches are soft.

JVR isn't like Pyatt and the only reason for the comparison is to rile up fans. Yes they are the both big bodied, drafted high and bad defensively but that is a very vague comparison. How about skating? Hockey IQ? Shot? All 3 make JVR a better player. And sure JVR doesn't hit but he knows how to use his body to protect the puck and with his size, stability on his skates and soft hands he is one of the best in-crease players in the league.

Not to mention drafting had come a long way between 1999 and 2007, so even draft pedigree is a flawed comparison.

 

[Mubiki]

Colorado is not trading landy. It ain't happening. Bit I'll play bizzaro world with you your a division opponent, you guys are neck and neck with us. New coaching, there will be no huge changes made in Colorados core for ATLEAST this year. But you want him that bad? Your gonna pay, it'll hurt Mr mild.

Dude. I understand you guys are super sensitive when it comes down to the Wild basically owning you; but try not to jump down somebody's throat for participating in a thread. Should Wild fans just avoid every Colorado related thread to avoid triggering you?

Given the prices, JVR would definitely be the more responsible get. Landy is the better player, and he's also completely entrenched in the organization, so you'll have to pay higher than market value to get him. Not worth it imo, even were he available. He's great, but not a franchise player; but he'll cost you as much.

 

[TT1]

lawl. wouldnt give up 5'9 3rd liner Gallagher for JVR?
leafs would laugh and block the habs number if that was even offered.

nice to see you would give him up for a guy who is 10x better in landy though

I'm not claiming JVR > Gallagher because of these stats, just wanted to show the possession stats are actually close, when using relative stats. When you were saying that Gallagher blows JVR out of the water, which just isn't the case.

I have posted them, see last page.. For reference... https://puckalytics.com

JVR-
CF60 Rel - 8.54
CA60 Rel - -3.02
CF% Rel - 4.86

Gallagher-
CF60 Rel - 9.88
CA60 Rel - -0.11
CF% Rel - 4.02

Oh, and I'm not too sure where you've gotten your stats from. But looking in terms of raw corsi differential, they're actually pretty close.

Cf% - JVR - 54.61
cf% - Gallagher - 55.94

So yeah, your earlier statement of "advanced stats aren't even close" is wrong, no matter how many decimal points you use


I countered your ****** comparison with another ****** comparison. JVR matched Pyatts career totals in 50% of the games. Give me a break, if you're being serious with that, then I feel sorry for you.

Just because their big, and don't lay out monstrous hits doesn't make it a good comparison, sorry. For the record, JVR uses his size all the time, just uses it in different ways then laying huge hits.

Gallagher (http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=1689)

vs

JVR (http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=1182)

Gally FF% (5v5 ES Zone Start Adjusted)

15-16: 55% (TMFF% 49.99% - this is team FF%)
14-15: 54.2% (TMFF% 49.3%)
13-14: 52.4% (TMFF% 47.5%)
12-13: 59.0% (TMFF% 54.8%)

As you can see Gally has elite Fenwick numbers (especially relative to his team), on top of that it's well known that he's one of the best puck possession players in the league and he has one the highest P/60 among RW'ers in the NHL. Oh yea and he's signed for 3.750M for 5+ years.

Bonus stats, hes the best net front presence forward in the league aswell: http://www.tsn.ca/the-value-of-a-forward-with-net-front-presence-1.526616 (better than Parise, Simmonds, Hornqvist etc.)

_________

JVR FF% (5v5 ES Zone Start Adjusted)

15-16: 51.8% (TMFF% 50.1% - this is team FF%)
14-15: 43.9% (TMFF% 47.5%)
13-14: 43.6% (TMFF% 39.8%)
12-13: 45.1% (TMFF% 44.2%)

As you can see JVR's Fenwick numbers can't touch Gally's, and if you notice his FA60 you'll see that his shot suppression is terrible.

_________

Bonus stat in order to quantify Gallagher's effectiveness:

Penalty Taken/Penalty Drawn per 60:
http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67# (Gally)

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67 (JVR)

Gallagher:
15-16: Pens Taken: 0.3 // Pens Drawn: 1.4
14-15: Pens Taken: 0.5 // Pens Drawn: 0.7
13-14: Pens Taken: 0.9 // Pens Drawn: 1.2
12-13: Pens Taken: 1.1 // Pens Drawn: 1.6

JVR:
15-16: Pens Taken: 0.1 // Pens Drawn: 0.4
14-15: Pens Taken: 0.7 // Pens Drawn: 0.6 (negative)
13-14: Pens Taken: 0.9 // Pens Drawn: 0.7 (negative)
12-13: Pens Taken: 0.7 // Pens Drawn: 0.4 (negative)

As you can see Gallagher has always drawn alot of penalty's (avg 1.23) throughout his career (due to the style of game he plays) and he's been getting more disciplined year after year (his Pens taken have dropped each season).

Compare him to JVR, he draws alot less penalties because he plays soft (avg 0.53) and on top of that he takes more penalties than he draws which ends up hurting his team.

____________________

** Gallagher P/60: (just to show Mr. Halla how much he knows about hockey)

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...+RW&f7=40-&f8=1&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+8+17+18+19+20

15-16: 10th in the NHL (4th among RW'ers behind Jagr, Kane, Wheeler.. hes ahead of Tarasenko)

Gallagher is simply one of the most effective/efficient players in the NHL. He's a workhorse.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

The Sedin twins remind me more of Princess Peach than Kyle Wellwood, mainly because peaches are soft.

JVR isn't like Pyatt and the only reason for the comparison is to rile up fans. Yes they are the both big bodied, drafted high and bad defensively but that is a very vague comparison. How about skating? Hockey IQ? Shot? All 3 make JVR a better player. And sure JVR doesn't hit but he knows how to use his body to protect the puck and with his size, stability on his skates and soft hands he is one of the best in-crease players in the league.

Not to mention drafting had come a long way between 1999 and 2007, so even draft pedigree is a flawed comparison.

Yah that incident with Marchand is still very embarrassing, though in the last couple of years they don't seem to take any **** from anybody any more its kind of weird.

JVR has a high hockey IQ? Really then why is he so god awful in his own end? Skating yah but Pyatt was a decent skater, Shot? I said JVR is better in that aspect. So all in all I count 1 thing he is better at and I admitted that much.

Once again an applicable comparison, sorry if that riles you up.

Also notice how I never took any cheap shots at your players? Can you say the same?

 

[Spilot23]

Mod should change this thread title to Gallagher vs JVR

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Mod should change this thread title to Gallagher vs JVR

Seriously... major derail

 

[EastonBlues22]

I think we can just move along from this one.