New York Islanders: Lamoriello Contract Not Renewed; John Collins Searching for Next GM

[TeamKidd]

Do you have information about his reflections on the matter since that time? I've seen nothing. If you do, please let me know. Barring that, I don't care if anyone thinks i'm too judgy about hockey executives.

I never called you 'too judgy'. I have no idea, that is why i framed it as a question. Only the interview process would be able to flush that out successfully. My point is that we have no idea about these candidates and in the absence of the full scope, we cant make judgements on these people. They are all flawed by definition. I see a lot of...I dont like this guy, or I dont like that guy or this guy is unknown....but where is the one perfect candidate we agree on? oh right, there isnt.

 

[PK Cronin]

I have no idea, that is why i framed it as a question. I never called you 'too judgy'. Only the interview process would be able to flush that out successfully. My point is that we have no idea about these candidates and in the absence of the full scope, we cant make judgements on these people. They are all flawed by definition. I see a lot of...I dont like this guy, or I dont like that guy or this guy is unknown....but where is the one perfect candidate we agree on? oh right, there isnt.

I had a longer post I decided against posting yesterday that was talking about this.

People are capable of changing, growing, or finding success because they're in different circumstances. What works in Toronto might not work on Long Island and vice versa. I'm more concerned with how they want the roster constructed than whether or not they had success someplace else because that philosophy is usually less likely to change and will have minor adjustments over time.

 

[saintunspecified]

I never called you 'too judgy'. I have no idea, that is why i framed it as a question. Only the interview process would be able to flush that out successfully.

I disagree. He made an error that was a public statement, and defended it publicly. It's corrected by making a public statement, not by saying something in a private interview.

Not all flaws are alike. For me, because I care about this issue, it's a dealbreaker.

FTR I've tried to find out if Bergevin has said anything substantive about it since then. I did not find anything.

This isn't about believing whether people can change, etc. It's about doing something to address a wrong.

 

[TeamKidd]

I had a longer post I decided against posting yesterday that was talking about this.

People are capable of changing, growing, or finding success because they're in different circumstances. What works in Toronto might not work on Long Island and vice versa. I'm more concerned with how they want the roster constructed than whether or not they had success someplace else because that philosophy is usually less likely to change and will have minor adjustments over time.

Yes I totally agree. There is a synergism that can occur between people/organizations/locations that make them more than the sum of their parts. I'm concerned with the whole organizational structure and having several good minds that work well together to make the organization into a well oiled machine. Having a good management team, to me, is imperative.

Im dating myself but was Phil Jackson a hall of fame coach? or did he ride Michael Jordan's coat tails? He came to NY and basically sucked. Or was the sum greater than the parts? hard to say.

 

[MJF]

If Bergevin is the best they can do, then one really has to question the point of it all.

Or question the parameters Scott Malkin set for the candidates.

 

[PK Cronin]

I disagree. He made an error that was a public statement, and defended it publicly. It's corrected by making a public statement, not by saying something in a private interview.

Not all flaws are alike. For me, because I care about this issue, it's a dealbreaker.

FTR I've tried to find out if Bergevin has said anything substantive about it since then. I did not find anything.

This isn't about believing whether people can change, etc. It's about doing something to address a wrong.

I think what you're talking about is definitely different because it's more of a moral thing than a hockey one, you know? I don't have any issue with someone not endorsing a person for moral reasons.

 

[Throttle]

If there's anyone Bergevin reminds me of a bit, it's Garth Snow. Moments of brilliance (the Weber trade, which I incorrectly thought was awful at the time, trading Pacioretty for Suzuki, drafting Caufield), and moments of just ... what? (Dvorak acquisition, drafting Mailloux).

It's difficult to know just how much had to do with being Quebecois for the Francophone jewel. That's just something that comes with the territory. Arguably, if we're keeping it totally about hockey personnel, the acquisition of Suzuki probably swings the whole record in a positive direction. (I have never been a huge fan of Sergachev.)

But Mailloux drafting really bugs me. Hiring Bergevin is kind of like going out and getting Quenneville to be your coach - it's a vote for the worst of the boys club see no evil sports culture.

(and ftr, sure, maybe Mailloux can get a 'second chance'. and Mailloux "renounced" himself from the draft. by drafting him, bergevin made that statement by Mailloux purely performative. did he react angrily to being drafted? no. he said it would make him a better person. whatever. my opinion fwiw is that it was performative, and Bergevin contributed to that. that's not the way adults are supposed to act.)

Do you apply the same level of scrutiny to NFL management, coaches, and players?

Or this just a hockey thing?

 

[TeamKidd]

I think what you're talking about is definitely different because it's more of a moral thing than a hockey one, you know? I don't have any issue with someone not endorsing a person for moral reasons.

I tend to agree generally, however how old was Mallieux when this happened? Kids do outrageous stuff all the time. If i recall correctly Casey Cizikas was involved in something pretty shitty when he was a kid. I would hate to be forever excommunicated because of something i did as a kid. As a note, i am in NO WAY endorsing what he did, it was 100% vile.

 

[PK Cronin]

I tend to agree generally, however how old was Mallieux when this happened? Kids to outrageous stuff all the time. If i recall correctly Casey Cizikas was involved in something pretty shitty when he was a kid. I would hate to be forever excommunicated because of something i did as a kid. As a note, i am in NO WAY endorsing what he did, it was 100% vile.

Haven't been following the conversation too closely but I think there's a difference between judging Mallieux, who was a kid, and judging a grown adult who overlooked what Mallieux did at a time when they probably shouldn't have.

I think each case is different and would view them individually. Cizikas was involved in a horrible accident/tragedy.

 

[periferal]

I get your hesitance. but i ask. what WOULD work for you? there is a reason these people are looking for work ....no one is without warts.

Literally posted a in-depth post just yesterday of what would work for me.

 

[periferal]

I didn’t say all his trades were good. More wins than losses. With Mad Mike it was disaster after disaster which set the franchise back a decade. Probably told this story before but I met Milbury once at Cam Neely wedding. That prick Milbury made up a rumor that night that the Islanders were signing Roenick in free agency. Of course all the Islanders fans at the wedding party believed him.

Ain't no one here gonna defend Milbury.


But hiring someone "like Milbury, but better" is not the standard we should be setting.

 

[periferal]

From Friedman on Isles GM search...

• Answer should come in the next "couple of days."
• Bergevin and Darche seem to be names most mentioned.
• Jarmo hovering in the background.
• Was a rumor out there that the Isles floated the idea of Bergevin/Darche "co-GMing" together. Friedman then went off saying what a terrible idea this would be (even referenced the Isles/Neil Smith situation under wang) and said he hoped it was just a rumor.

 

[periferal]

I'm getting the sense that...

• The Isles want to hire Darche, but want someone more experienced
• Bergevin has no other options in the NHL, but...Only wants to be GM and not a team President.
• This will come down to Malkin having the guts to hire the best person for the job (Darche) vs the fear of him being a first-time GM.
• If Malkin doesn't have the guts, then Bergevin will be the next GM (and he will have wasted a golden opportunity to get his franchise back on track after Lou was sinking it).

 

[Konk]

I'm getting the sense that...

• The Isles want to hire Darche, but want someone more experienced
• Bergevin has no other options in the NHL, but...Only wants to be GM and not a team President.
• This will come down to Malkin having the guts to hire the best person for the job (Darche) vs the fear of him being a first-time GM.
• If Malkin doesn't have the guts, then Bergevin will be the next GM (and he will have wasted a golden opportunity to get his franchise back on track after Lou was sinking it).

Grow some f***ing balls, Malkin!

 

[MJF]

Or question the parameters Scott Malkin set for the candidates.

Bad process will yield bad results.

 

[xECK29x]

Bad process will yield bad results.

This process has gone completely off the rails, this ownership group is really a bunch of clowns.

 

[Taswell]

I tend to agree generally, however how old was Mallieux when this happened? Kids do outrageous stuff all the time. If i recall correctly Casey Cizikas was involved in something pretty shitty when he was a kid. I would hate to be forever excommunicated because of something i did as a kid. As a note, i am in NO WAY endorsing what he did, it was 100% vile.

Comparing these two situations is wild behavior.

 

[MJF]

This process has gone completely off the rails, this ownership group is really a bunch of clowns.

It seems to me that Scott Malkin wanted the guy he couldn’t have, Jeff Gorton. Barring that Malkin’s wish list is a combination of experience, winning pedigree, and someone who can take the front office Lou left him and rebuild it into a 21st century operation, and Malkin is finding that this person doesn’t exist.

 

[PK Cronin]

It seems to me that Scott Malkin wanted the guy he couldn’t have, Jeff Gorton. Barring that Malkin’s wish list is a combination of experience, winning pedigree, and someone who can take the front office Lou left him and rebuild it into a 21st century operation, and Malkin is finding that this person doesn’t exist.

Has he tried posting on this board?

 

[MJF]

Has he tried posting on this board?

I’m wondering if Malkin hires Darche for GM and names John Collins as interim president until Malkin can construct one in his lab.

 

[Thrasymachus]

this is getting embarrassing

 

[YearlyLottery]

I can understand the hesitation on Bergevin (this is ignoring the fact that first time GM's are not nearly perfect either). But why are so many of you so insanely pumped about Darche? He's not making final decisions over there in Tampa and aside from vague reports we don't actually know how big of a role he plays.

Yes I would rather Darche ahead of Bergevin. That being said, I think anything can work if people are willing to learn from their mistakes.

 

[Strummergas]

I’m wondering if Malkin hires Darche for GM and names John Collins as interim president until Malkin can construct one in his lab.

That would make a whole lot of sense. Maybe too much sense.

 

[Strummergas]

I can understand the hesitation on Bergevin (this is ignoring the fact that first time GM's are not nearly perfect either). But why are so many of you so insanely pumped about Darche?

Some people just are enamored with the idea of being with a virgin.

 

[doublechili]

But why are so many of you so insanely pumped about Darche?

He's a clean slate, like a draft pick.