New York Islanders: Lamoriello Contract Not Renewed; John Collins Searching for Next GM

[Throttle]

The Isles job must be so overwhelming of a task that no one wants it…isn’t that what the famed twitter’s told everyone?

 

[duster19]

Don't listen to the naysayers. As a Habs fan, I have liked Bergevin for a whole chunk of time there. It's just that when he left, it was time to turn the page. Our two best players Price and Weber retired at the same time and the wheels literally fell off.

But that depends in what you want. Bergevin could do a reset but Darche probably would be the guy for a rebuild. But if you want bold moves, Bergevin is not afraid to do that.

If the isles go through all of this to hire Bergervin I will be very disappointed. This is taking a long time with a lot at stake. It’s becoming clear that this job is not considered desirable. We are definitely on the B list. Ownership does not look like they are very convincing and have looked pretty inept through it all. Looks like we were completely unprepared to start this search. I never understood what took so long to move in from Lou. Change has been needed for years now. It feels like our ownership just started to put their minds too it a couple weeks ago. We’ll just find a new GM… easy peasy. It feels like disappointment is on the horizon.

 

[MikeyMike01]

I had no idea there were this many journalism majors among us.

There’s an important difference between HF posters and journalists: the latter gets paid to spend all day making up bullshit

 

[beach]

Replying again since you edited.

No one says he lost all of his skill, so I'm not sure where you got that from.

I had him #2 in February because I had only watched him at the WJCs, then I got to see him play more at BC and having a larger sample size, my view of him changed. I also got to see more of the other players and there just isn't a lot that separates Misa, Martone, and Hagens. My opinion has also become that I don't see any of them becoming elite players in the NHL.

Do you still think Noah Dobson is a 70 point, future Norris winner? Or did seeing him play more this past season make you realize perhaps he has more holes in his game than he showed last year? Does your opinion on any player not change the more you see them play? Or is it one and done, what they appear to be the first time you watch them sticks forever?

I have another question for you -- if the Canadian analysts that had him ranked #1 dropped him from the top spot because of Canadian bias, why would they have him there in the first place? Wouldn't they have been biased against him the entire time, or did they just start becoming biased in November?

To add -- I get it, everyone has bias'. I know I'm biased towards American players and physical, tough players. I have even bought into the narrative that Hagens' dropping was due to Canadian bias. That said, I try to be conscious of my bias, I admit when I'm wrong due to my bias (I was wrong about Nick Ritchie, Kieffer Bellows), but overall -- you can't always stick to your first impression or let your bias get in the way of what's increasingly obvious. I try to adjust my opinions on players and viewpoints with more information and that may result in my opinion changing over time.

I appreciate your commentary. I still think Hagens goes #3.

 

[beach]

Hagens didn’t show he was a difference maker this year, he showed he was a good player which may be good enough for #3 or it may not. It will be 3 or later

Well, I def think he goes after Schaefer and Misa, but i do think he will be #3.

 

[Konk]

I appreciate your commentary. I still think Hagens goes #3.

You could be right, that certainly isn't a crazy take. Personally, I could see the Blackhawks going for Martone and Utah going off the board a bit for Desnoyers leaving Hagens for Nashville.

I apologize if I came off rude earlier.

 

[Thrasymachus]

You could be right, that certainly isn't a crazy take. Personally, I could see the Blackhawks going for Martone and Utah going off the board a bit for Desnoyers leaving Hagens for Nashville.

I apologize if I came off rude earlier.

The way I see it... we are all just passionate

 

[Glory Days]

Replying again since you edited.

No one says he lost all of his skill, so I'm not sure where you got that from.

I had him #2 in February because I had only watched him at the WJCs, then I got to see him play more at BC and having a larger sample size, my view of him changed. I also got to see more of the other players and there just isn't a lot that separates Misa, Martone, and Hagens. My opinion has also become that I don't see any of them becoming elite players in the NHL.

Do you still think Noah Dobson is a 70 point, future Norris winner? Or did seeing him play more this past season make you realize perhaps he has more holes in his game than he showed last year? Does your opinion on any player not change the more you see them play? Or is it one and done, what they appear to be the first time you watch them sticks forever?

I have another question for you -- if the Canadian analysts that had him ranked #1 dropped him from the top spot because of Canadian bias, why would they have him there in the first place? Wouldn't they have been biased against him the entire time, or did they just start becoming biased in November?

To add -- I get it, everyone has bias'. I know I'm biased towards American players and physical, tough players. I have even bought into the narrative that Hagens' dropping was due to Canadian bias. That said, I try to be conscious of my bias, I admit when I'm wrong due to my bias (I was wrong about Nick Ritchie, Kieffer Bellows), but overall -- you can't always stick to your first impression or let your bias get in the way of what's increasingly obvious. I try to adjust my opinions on players and viewpoints with more information and that may result in my opinion changing over time.

I totally get what you are saying and agree that opinions can change over time. Players move up and down because of this. I also think that sometimes players can get over analyzed and flaws can be blown out of proportion. What’s your take on that?

 

[Konk]

The way I see it... we are all just passionate

 

[ScaredStreit]

Are you really saying that player development is more important than scouting? Nah - You can't be.

You think Kurcherov and Point would've sucked if they weren't on the Lightning and were on like the Blue Jackets or Ducks?

Conversely you think that guys like Ho-Sang or Wahlstrom would've made it if they were on the Lightning or Panthers?

No chance on either.

I'll agree that a certain coach/system/franchise can bring out the best (or worst) in a player, but the foundation of any player's talent, desire, and smarts are all built inside them before they are even drafted. I just think that most of those players reach that potential on their own.

And while I think Jon Cooper is a good coach, no question the #1 reason for their success was due to how amazing they've been at drafting the past 10+ years.

Thus once again...There is nothing more important in building an NHL Cup contender than your scouting department.

There's a reason why certain organziations have so many players who exceed their expectations by a country mile and while some rarely do. Could it be scouting? Sure. But when it's consistently late round picks in the draft I don't think that's it.

If Tampa knew what Kucherov and Point were capable of via scouting they both would have been 1st round picks. Also that's just one team....if scouting was so vital how did every team miss both of those players?

 

[doublechili]

How about:

GM: Brandon Pridham

In fact maybe just nothing from the Maple Leafs. Honestly...What's good about that organization that you'd want on the Isles? No team has less resules from top draft picks than they do. They cannot identify the element of character when constructing a team.

You don't want guys because they're coming from Toronto.

Florida hired Bill Zito from Columbus.

Spin your way out of that one.

I'd say you're totally joking because you put the emoji there....Alas you also decided to post it and most would say what makes something funny is that it's at least partially true (so not sure it's a 100% joke....But hope it is).

I wasn't joking. How do you discount a guy like Pridham just because he's an AGM on Toronto? FLA hired Zito from a mediocre team, but he turned out okay, right?

This is what drives me crazy - When people write their own script not based on reality.

YOU are saying I don't want Shanahan because he's from the Leafs.

I don't want Shanahan because we just got rid of Lou...And he hired him (and then hired Dubas).

Get your compass centered...I don't care what team our next GM/President comes from. I just want the right guy. Go hire Gorton for all I care and he probably still has a rangers logo tattooed on his heart.

What drives me crazy is that you replied specifically to my mention of Pridham as GM and you discounted him purely because he's coming from TOR, and then I brought up a great GM like Zito coming from a bad organization like CBJ and you changed the subject to Shanahan.

I'll ask again, would you discount Brandon Pridham as GM simply because he'd be coming from TOR? Simple question.

And BTW, I did say what I thought about the possibility of Shanahan as POHO - in pretty good detail. Look it up (because you just made me do a lot of work!).

 

[SI90]

Gut feeling it’s going to be Bergevin.

Just holding out hope we can possible have and POHO/GM tandem and still get Darche

 

[doublechili]

I've always been under the impression Pridman is their cap wizard . That doesnt mean he's in a closet crunching numbers all day but I've wondered what else he's contributed in a scouting sense in terms of pro or amateur

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating for Pridham - just mentioning him because his name has been mentioned before when other teams were looking for a GM, but the thing is that TOR was supposedly unwilling to let him go - which may not be the case now if they're shaking up management, letting Shanahan go, etc..

Anyway, you are correct that salary cap/CBA stuff was his initial responsibility with the Leafs, but then he was promoted to AGM in 2018 (when Lou and Hunter left) and his responsibilities expanded. Before he joined the Leafs, he was with the NHL for 10 years as Director of Central Registry and also was a Senior Advisor with NHL Central Scouting.

I'll post again what I posted previously from an article when Dubas was let go 6 weeks before the draft and the Leafs didn't have a GM:

"“I think that that some (personnel) decisions have to be the responsibility of the new general manager. And I think in the meantime, I’m going to lean heavily on (Pridham),” Shanahan said."

But your post brings up a big picture item: is it necessary to have a GM with a specific player personnel/scouting background, or have things evolved to the point where you can have a GM whose expertise is elsewhere but who relies on a Director of Player Personnel and a Director of Scouting in making personnel decisions? Jarmo, for example, has a good record scouting, but people aren't crazy about him because he "failed chemistry", ie., hasn't shown evidence of putting it all together. IMO, that's the key thing that you want in a GM - to be a (duh), "General Manager". It's an executive position, so big picture balancing of the cap, the pipeline, pro and amateur scouting, etc.., etc. is involved.

 

[Isles72]

If the isles go through all of this to hire Bergervin I will be very disappointed. This is taking a long time with a lot at stake. It’s becoming clear that this job is not considered desirable. We are definitely on the B list. Ownership does not look like they are very convincing and have looked pretty inept through it all. Looks like we were completely unprepared to start this search. I never understood what took so long to move in from Lou. Change has been needed for years now. It feels like our ownership just started to put their minds too it a couple weeks ago. We’ll just find a new GM… easy peasy. It feels like disappointment is on the horizon.

meh , I'd rather have Bergevin or Darche than crusty Holland . If LAK firing Blake slowed down the process a few weeks then so be it

 

[doublechili]

Hagens was always billed as Jack Hughes with an edge. He doesn't have an edge

Wait, are you saying Hagens is actually NOT from LI?

 

[Isles72]

Gut feeling it’s going to be Bergevin.

Just holding out hope we can possible have and POHO/GM tandem and still get Darche

unlikely the case but ideally Bergevin and Darche know eachother enough to have had a professional relationship and respect eachothers work . If Bergevin is named GM and Darche is offered a nice title and pay bump with increased challenges than in T'bay he might consider it a good career move .

 

[Thrasymachus]

According to the news, Marc Bergevin will get a management position with the Islanders, VP or GM. The Habs should forget about any trade involving Horvat or Barzal. I can't imagine Bergevin dealing with MTL, the reconstruction? No, Marc is more of a "reset guy." To be continued.

 

[Konk]

I totally get what you are saying and agree that opinions can change over time. Players move up and down because of this. I also think that sometimes players can get over analyzed and flaws can be blown out of proportion. What’s your take on that?

I do think that can happen as well, but I think most are cognizant of that. I also think perhaps that is more relevant to Canadian kids that are literally on the radar from early teens onwards, that stay within the CHL until they're drafted. Especially exceptional status players.

I don't think it's the case with Hagens.

What are your thoughts?

 

[doublechili]

If true re: Bergevin, hoping for Darche in the GM position.

BTW, the person/people the owners select will tell us a lot about what they want vis a vis "rebuild", "retool", "rewhatever".

 

[TeamKidd]

According to the news, Marc Bergevin will get a management position with the Islanders, VP or GM. The Habs should forget about any trade involving Horvat or Barzal. I can't imagine Bergevin dealing with MTL, the reconstruction? No, Marc is more of a "reset guy." To be continued.

if he's VP....who's P??

 

[doublechili]

if he's VP....who's P??

I think they're using "VP" the way we've been using "POHO". In other words, the senior management/overseer guy who is above the GM (but the GM is usually the day to day manager in those cases).

 

[Isles72]

According to the news, Marc Bergevin will get a management position with the Islanders, VP or GM. The Habs should forget about any trade involving Horvat or Barzal. I can't imagine Bergevin dealing with MTL, the reconstruction? No, Marc is more of a "reset guy." To be continued.

is he the french Staple

 

[Osakahaus]

Im fine if the Isles choose Bergevin. He isn't that bad and he definitely feels like a dude who wants to take risks whenever possible, unlike Lou who played a very conservative by the books roster.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Damn, we're really going full French Canadien aren't we? Bergevin, Darche, Roy, Desrosiers, Lemaire? Barzal better start learning French

 

[Thrasymachus]

Damn, we're really going full French Canadien aren't we? Bergevin, Darche, Roy, Desrosiers, Lemaire? Barzal better start learning French

This better not be a stealth operation to relocate the Isles to Quebec city