New York Islanders: Lamoriello Contract Not Renewed; John Collins Searching for Next GM

[impaaaaaact]

Matthews is a problem and we saw it during the Four Nations too. When the lights are the brightest he shrinks. He can score 60 goals in the regular season but then the end of each playoff round comes and he's a ghost.

And there's really not much you can do about that at the end of the day. What are you gonna do, not draft him? not sign him? The guy is going to break the all time goals record.

At the end of the day, I bet he gets it together at some point and gets a cup. Took Ovechkin almost 15 years. But I'm not sure that's something you can put on a GM or a POHO.

I agree with what Throttle said - their worst mistake was probably signing Tavares when they already had those other three dudes. That $$$ should have gone to some defense in retrospect. THAT you can put on them for sure.

 

[impaaaaaact]

I do think the difference is Marner is a line driver where as Rantanen while he has his own great skillset(including size) was more a case benefitted playing with Nate MackInnon. Don't get me wrong he probably gets like 80 points playing with lesser players but still I am guessing his point totals decrease while in Dallas

I'm definitely not calling Marner a Matthews Merchant, but if we're bringing up Mackinnon I think it's fair to mention that Marner has been playing on a line with a player who is on a pace to break the all time goals record. Of course, Marner has something to do with that.

Does his point total go down playing with Bo Horvat and Anders Lee? Yea, probably. But still hopefully a 85-90 point player that kills penalties.

 

[PK Cronin]

And there's really not much you can do about that at the end of the day. What are you gonna do, not draft him? not sign him? The guy is going to break the all time goals record.

At the end of the day, I bet he gets it together at some point and gets a cup. Took Ovechkin almost 15 years. But I'm not sure that's something you can put on a GM or a POHO.

I agree with what Throttle said - their worst mistake was probably signing Tavares when they already had those other three dudes. That $$$ should have gone to some defense in retrospect. THAT you can put on them for sure.

Unless you're trading him for a McDavid or MacKinnon you can't move him. I don't think anyone would trade two slightly lesser pieces for him either because it doesn't make sense.

He could end up winning the cup, he's certainly young enough, but he cannot be the go-to guy on the team. The difference between him and Ovechkin is that Ovechkin has always had the physicality aspect to his game, which translates to the style needed for the playoffs. Matthews needs someone like Tkachuk who can set the tone and be the voice for that team. It's scary that Matthews is given leadership roles, both with USA and Toronto, but cannot elevate his game or do anything to impact the biggest games he's in.

I agree that signing Tavares was their biggest mistake. It crushed their cap situation, and then the flat cap really destroyed any chance to fix that since they refused to trade any of the "core four."

 

[Throttle]

Unless you're trading him for a McDavid or MacKinnon you can't move him. I don't think anyone would trade two slightly lesser pieces for him either because it doesn't make sense.

He could end up winning the cup, he's certainly young enough, but he cannot be the go-to guy on the team. The difference between him and Ovechkin is that Ovechkin has always had the physicality aspect to his game, which translates to the style needed for the playoffs. Matthews needs someone like Tkachuk who can set the tone and be the voice for that team. It's scary that Matthews is given leadership roles, both with USA and Toronto, but cannot elevate his game or do anything to impact the biggest games he's in.

I agree that signing Tavares was their biggest mistake. It crushed their cap situation, and then the flat cap really destroyed any chance to fix that since they refused to trade any of the "core four."

He’s getting the best player leadership roles by default. Absent his mooning incident, he would have been captain in Toronto a lot earlier in time.

 

[seabass45]

I know that the conversation was from a couple days ago, but I just saw now.

If anyone doesn't see the difference between Staple of early Athletic days and Staple now, it's there if you look.

In the past he would readily say that he has no concrete information and he's just taking things to what he thinks is there logical conclusion, or what he gathers the sense is around the little bits of information he had.

He never prefaces anything anymore. He starts everything with "I've been told" or some other definitive lines and it ends up needing to be refuted or is nonsense. Whether he's doing that to purposefully shoot down his own ideas or force a response, who knows. But he's way more reckless than he used to be.

The demands of the job are different now. He used to be a meat-and-potatoes reporter, just tell people what happened and get some quotes, but fans want rumors, they want insight into the inner workings, even if Lou has made it extremely difficult to get that. They're going to Rosner for it, or Bob, or that kid who puts the eyeball emojis next to everything he tweets. That's the competition, so Staple has to go with the flow and he might end up falling into the same traps as a result.

 

[MJF]

I mean, the guy with zero front office experience that hired a legendary GM to rebuild a franchise (I would say used), then when the table was set, move him out for boy not so wonder, whom misspent cap and picks and never moved the needle from where Lou left it, only for that squirrel to fool another team, the hire another GM that keeps the same coach, to finally start fixing the team/coach like 6 years later…

The only thing one can see about Shanahan is that he made the Toronto owners and broadcast holders A LOT of money with the puff and fluff team.

What is true though, is I don’t think fans ever threw jerseys on the ice while Lou was their GM.

There was nobody in the building to throw jerseys by the end of Lou's time on the Island.

 

[MJF]

The team was a lottery team when he took it over, and then they made the playoffs for 8 years straight. Sure, they haven't gotten past the second round, but Isles ownership will definitely love that consistency. Of note, 7 of their 9 playoff losses were in game winner take all games, 5 of which coming against the Bruins or Panthers, and they haven't won one in that time. through a few different coaches, I personally read that as your best player (Matthews) not being able to clutch up but I'm sure there are other interpretations.

That's not going to get it done with Isles fans anymore, and it certainly won't make Scott Malkin happy when that level of mediocrity doesn't result in season tickets sold.

 

[Throttle]

There was nobody in the building to throw jerseys by the end of Lou's time on the Island.

Yeah, they were at home on their desktop checking their emails for their favorite event of the year: the draft party.

 

[impaaaaaact]

That's not going to get it done with Isles fans anymore, and it certainly won't make Scott Malkin happy when that level of mediocrity doesn't result in season tickets sold.

You hope to get our of the first round more than twice in 11 years of course, but if you're suggesting that fans aren't going to come to playoff games in competitive series I have to disagree with you there.

As I mentioned before, a large majority of those series went to game 7. Matthews has no X-Factor in game 7s and that seems to be hampering the franchise. But you can't know that until you pick him, and you can't not pick him. Citing that would be a pretty short sighted reason to not take a swing at Shanahan IMO

 

[MJF]

You hope to get our of the first round more than twice in 11 years of course, but if you're suggesting that fans aren't going to come to playoff games in competitive series I have to disagree with you there.

As I mentioned before, a large majority of those series went to game 7. Matthews has no X-Factor in game 7s and that seems to be hampering the franchise. But you can't know that until you pick him, and you can't not pick him. Citing that would be a pretty short sighted reason to not take a swing at Shanahan IMO

I didn't say that. NHL teams need season ticket sales to be successful. It's still the primary source of each team's revenue.

 

[impaaaaaact]

I didn't say that. NHL teams need season ticket sales to be successful. It's still the primary source of each team's revenue.

When the team was consistently making the playoffs the building was more full. Full stop. Right now the haven't made the playoffs 2 out of the last 3 seasons, and ticket sales have dropped. If the Islanders are consistently a good team it will help with ticket sales.

Ownership has also already showed that they're more than happy to hire someone from that Toronto regime, already cosigning that level of success. I don't think there's an argument to be made here.

 

[Thrasymachus]

 

[seafoam]

He can go to Buffalo.

 

[Thrasymachus]

He can go to Buffalo.

but who is the better option? I am not in love with Shanahan by any means. But I think I would prefer him to Bergevin or Kekelainen.

 

[Throttle]

In the end, he made that franchise a lot of money and he can take the credit for making the right hire in Lou.

He can also take the ‘credit’ for Dubas and signing JT, then succumbing to the players on Babcock, then letting Dubas hire Keefe and just one ‘next genius’ move after another that led to much ado about nothing in the playoffs.

Shanahan kinda looked like a goof when Dubas found another sucker in PIT to believe he’ll help that franchise (uh-huh, PIT is in for a long stinky ride ahead).

Shanahan seemed to make a lot of vanity moves, which is odd for a guy that played the game knowing that jam wins in the playoffs. However, he was the POHO - he was looking for glory in that role.

 

[impaaaaaact]

but who is the better option? I am not in love with Shanahan by any means. But I think I would prefer him to Bergevin or Kekelainen.

Same. Just on like currently being in the game/being dialed in without even thinking about what team he worked for. Not in love with him, but obviously a tier above the other options

 

[impaaaaaact]

In the end, he made that franchise a lot of money and he can take the credit for making the right hire in Lou.

He can also take the ‘credit’ for Dubas and signing JT, then succumbing to the players on Babcock, then letting Dubas hire Keefe and just one ‘next genius’ move after another that led to much ado about nothing in the playoffs.

Shanahan kinda looked like a goof when Dubas found another sucker in PIT to believe he’ll help that franchise (uh-huh, PIT is in for a long stinky ride ahead).

Shanahan seemed to make a lot of vanity moves, which is odd for a guy that played the game knowing that jam wins in the playoffs. However, he was the POHO - he was looking for glory in that role.

In all fairness, that's a vanity franchise. I'm not excusing Shanahan, but Toronto does have that vibe.

Also I've noticed that you seem to really hate Dubai and most young GMs. Can you explain what you think he's doing wrong in Pittsburgh? This seems like a pretty good way to prepare for life without Crosby and Malkin.

 

[MJF]

When the team was consistently making the playoffs the building was more full. Full stop. Right now the haven't made the playoffs 2 out of the last 3 seasons, and ticket sales have dropped. If the Islanders are consistently a good team it will help with ticket sales.

Ownership has also already showed that they're more than happy to hire someone from that Toronto regime, already cosigning that level of success. I don't think there's an argument to be made here.

Wrong. Not full stop. Every year since UBS Arena opened attendance has dropped. Declining season ticket sales was the driver. Fans will not support this team when they struggle to make the playoffs every year.

 

[doublechili]

I've mentioned Shanahan based on his history with Collins mostly. It doesn't take much digging to see that they worked closely together in the NHL offices. In an interview from when Shanahan was first hired by the NHL, Collins was one of the first people he mentioned looking forward to working with. And after starting with the NHL, Shanahan was given an additional job working with Collins specifically in the NHL marketing area. Of course, we don't know what Collins thinks of Shanahan, but there's not many (dippin') dots to connect here.

Do I want Shanahan? IDK. It's hard to evaluate him coming from TOR where he probably had a hard job as the guy ultimately responsible to the ownership conglomerate there, and we don't know to what extent his decisions were truly his alone or were influenced by ownership. TOR had some success and ultimately lost out in crucial games when the going got tough. He has a good background to be POHO and run the ship, and hopefully the GM would be a good hire and would make most of the hockey decisions. As a practical matter, if the alternatives are Bergevin and a few of the other names tossed around, I'd take my chances with Shanahan. But based on the prior Shanahan/Collins connection, and the fact that Shanahan is available, you have to think he might be the favorite now.

And, Pridham as GM and Burke as AGM seems like a decent start to building an organization. Give Martin and/or Hickey jobs. Etc..

 

[seabass45]

In all fairness, that's a vanity franchise. I'm not excusing Shanahan, but Toronto does have that vibe.

Also I've noticed that you seem to really hate Dubai and most young GMs. Can you explain what you think he's doing wrong in Pittsburgh? This seems like a pretty good way to prepare for life without Crosby and Malkin.View attachment 1038978

The problem was what he did to try to give Crosby and Malkin one more run. Traded for Karlsson, extended Jarry. Didn't work, they haven't been a playoff team, so he's had to sell off players.

 

[TeamKidd]

Shanahan for POHO, Darche for GM?

 

[doublechili]

Shanahan for POHO, Darche for GM?

Sure, or Chevy. Or, if Shanahan is hired and starts building a team, you can maybe wait for an AGM of a team that's still playing. So, Campbell from FLA, for example.

 

[2ndGenIslander]

I want nothing to do with a Shanascam here, see ya later buddy.

 

[Thrasymachus]

 

[Thrasymachus]

I want nothing to do with a Shanascam here, see ya later buddy.

I again ask - who is the better option?

The dude who drafted Logan Mailloux? The guy who built the Columbus Blue Jackets roster?