New York Islanders: Lamoriello Contract Not Renewed; John Collins Searching for Next GM

[Konk]

Whatever, you make the dumbest connections I'm starting to wonder why i trust your prospect ratings. Favorites doesn't mean non favorites aren't contenders. That's how you define silly. Tried to have a civil conversation with you but smartest man in the room syndrome strikes again and only MY opinion can be right, lol. Get bent.

I'm using facts and historical precedent to back up my argument, meanwhile you're plugging your ears, arguing semantics, and becoming emotional.

Why would I care if you trust my opinions on prospects or not?

 

[Wanderson]

They really don't, though. Statistically, it's more rare for teams in certain circumstances to reach the Finals than it is for other teams, and especially to win.

Here's an example, with Columbus' run specifically in mind, where Kekalainen went all-in on the roster. This was the argument to begin with. They had never even won a playoff series in their existence, but according to you and Leap, they had an equal chance at the Cup with all the teams that made the playoffs that year.

Let's look at teams that, prior to their championship run, had never won a single playoff series in their franchise’s history.

1. 1974 – Philadelphia Flyers
2. 1996 – Colorado Avalanche

That's it, that's the list.

Now, let's expand that a bit further to open it up a little bit more. Here's a list of finalists that, in the two or more seasons prior to their finals appearance, did not make it past the first round of the playoffs -- either losing in the first round or missing the playoffs entirely. This is since the modern era, 1970s and onward.

1. 1991 – Minnesota North Stars (Lost in Final)

1989: Missed playoffs
1990: Missed playoffs
1991: Reached Final

2. 1996 – Florida Panthers (Lost in Final)

1994 & 1995: Missed playoffs (expansion team)
1996: Reached Final in 3rd season

3. 2002 – Carolina Hurricanes (Lost in Final)

2000: Missed playoffs
2001: Missed playoffs
2002: Reached Final

4. 2006 – Edmonton Oilers (Lost in Final)

2002: Lost in 1st round
2003: Missed playoffs
2004: Missed playoffs
2005: Season canceled
2006: Reached Final

5. 2010 – Philadelphia Flyers (Lost in Final)

2008: Lost in 1st round
2009: Lost in 1st round
2010: Reached Final

6. 2012 – Los Angeles Kings (Won the Cup)

2010: Lost in 1st round
2011: Lost in 1st round
2012: Won Cup

So since the 1970s, this has only happened SIX times, and only one of those teams won the Cup.

So despite what you and Leap claim, there are statistical weights to each team, each year, based on previous accomplishments that can define their probability of success that can be used to determine their reasonable chances at winning the Cup or competing for it. Yes, there are always exceptions, like the above teams, but clearly in 2019 the Columbus Blue Jackets, based on precedent, wasn't likely to end up in the Finals competing for the Cup, let alone winning it.

”There are 3 kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics”.

According to statistics the Isles should draft Misa instead of Schaefer. Why? Because if you analyse the top 3 highest draft picks of all the remaining teams in the Stanley Cup - almost all of the players are forwards. Therefore, there is a higher probability for the Isles to be successful if they draft Misa instead of Schaefer!

 

[doublechili]

When I see that photo of Bergevin, I expect him to say "life will find a way" and clap his hands.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Why? It is what it is. The contract is up and the team is not interested in extending him (in that role). "Fired" would indicate he's been removed from the position while still under contract.

Was it ever specifically stated that "contract as GM will not be renewed, but will remain with team in advisory role" at the outset of the news?

I think we're learning that now, but at the time I think we all assumed that he wasn't necessarily escorted out of the building unceremoniously but he was no longer affiliated with day-to-day hockey operations. Sure feels like he still is.

I don't like how they're operating here.

 

[periferal]

Just drumming up business....i do not see a clusterf#ck here .... Just process at this point in time.

In fairness....

How do you KNOW the GM/President search is not a "clusterf#ck" right now (or just not going well)? Because the only reports coming out are not suggesting things are going smooth at all.

And even if Staple, Botta, anyone are sensationalizing their stories to get attention/clicks, it still doesn't change the fact that...

• Lou is still advising Malkin.
• Holland, Jarmo, and Bergevin should NOT be candidates...And yet they were/are.

Process and results are 2 different things and maybe Malkin/Collins will get lucky if all the people they are hoping to hire say no to them (like Holland did already), and they ultimately back into a much better candidate.

Of course I will judge the hiring(s) once they happen, but as of now both of those facts above do not instill confidence that things are going well.

 

[Thrasymachus]

When I see that photo of Bergevin, I expect him to say "life will find a way" and clap his hands.

Brundlefly for new Isles GM?

 

[periferal]

Some fans are saying that Malkin/Collins "must be waiting for a few more playoffs teams to get eliminated so they can interview some executives there...

But what if they're not?

What if...

1. They really wanted Holland (as has been reported), but he went to LA.
2. Now they want Bergevin, but he wants 100% control and won't get it with Lou around.
3. Same for Jarmo who would be next choice.
4. They're interviewing Darche because he's the top "1st time GM" who would be more likely to accept Lou being around.

Despite some just rationalizing the slow movement as them wanting to interview more people...When the reason this is dragging could be simply because of the Lou factor.

 

[Isles72]

Get Chuck Fletcher in here. Hey, at least it will be fun!

Edit: Harvard grad and lives in NJ.

I'm actually surprised he and Ferguson Junior are not on the list ; not that I want them to be

 

[Throttle]

Probably bc not everyone goes on an Alice in Wonderland adventure over information during a normal due diligence process…

 

[MJF]

Was it ever specifically stated that "contract as GM will not be renewed, but will remain with team in advisory role" at the outset of the news?

I think we're learning that now, but at the time I think we all assumed that he wasn't necessarily escorted out of the building unceremoniously but he was no longer affiliated with day-to-day hockey operations. Sure feels like he still is.

I don't like how they're operating here.

The Islanders create their own brush fires and fail to stomp them out because their messaging is bad. They leave too many things open to interpretation.

 

[MJF]

Staple posts the latest info he’s heard on Isles GM search = CLICKBAIT

LeBrun repackages Staple and posts it = solid reporting.

We have some real winners on this board.

 

[impaaaaaact]

How do you KNOW the GM/President search is not a "clusterf#ck" right now (or just not going well)? Because the only reports coming out are not suggesting things are going smooth at all.

None of us know anything. You don't know that it is a clusterf***. It's a message board. "How do you know" is almost never useful here.

 

[Throttle]

Lebrun is known to have some insight into the Isles. Staple? Not so much. Botta?

Lebrun also just puts info out there w/o all the other speculative nonsense. A basic component of reporting is quoting both sides. Staple? He just gets the quotes to follow his narrative bc he needs clicks.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Some fans are saying that Malkin/Collins "must be waiting for a few more playoffs teams to get eliminated so they can interview some executives there...

But what if they're not?

What if...

1. They really wanted Holland (as has been reported), but he went to LA.
2. Now they want Bergevin, but he wants 100% control and won't get it with Lou around.
3. Same for Jarmo who would be next choice.
4. They're interviewing Darche because he's the top "1st time GM" who would be more likely to accept Lou being around.

Despite some just rationalizing the slow movement as them wanting to interview more people...When the reason this is dragging could be simply because of the Lou factor.

We ask "what if" because we don't know. Some people choose to see things with a half glass full when they don't know what's happening, but your glass is almost always on empty and you have a tendency to beat the boards down with your brand of hyper negativity.

Relax. We'll find stuff out when it happens.

 

[Glory Days]

Get Chuck Fletcher in here. Hey, at least it will be fun!

Edit: Harvard grad and lives in NJ.

Only if Fletcher brings Madigan to be the GM

 

[Strummergas]

Was it ever specifically stated that "contract as GM will not be renewed, but will remain with team in advisory role" at the outset of the news?

I think we're learning that now, but at the time I think we all assumed that he wasn't necessarily escorted out of the building unceremoniously but he was no longer affiliated with day-to-day hockey operations. Sure feels like he still is.

I don't like how they're operating here.

I have no idea how they're operating or what if any consideration is being given to keeping Lou around in any capacity. I threw the parenthesis in there to cover my ass against making an absolutist statement in the event that he does somehow linger past June 30th. Staple and Botta are clearly just posting any snippet they hear from any even somewhat legitimate source. They're both keeping the fanbase "informed" while also generating business for their employing sites.

All we really know is that he won't be extended and retained as the General Manager when his contract expires on June 30th.

 

[Throttle]

You should see the "displeased" comments the Kings are getting for hiring Holland. I think they're on point. What do you think?

Well, considering their former GM (and and current President) have lost in the first round five years in a row with 8 playoff wins and roughly during the same time Holland has 30 playoff wins, maybe their displeasure is misguided?

 

[periferal]

None of us know anything. You don't know that it is a clusterf***. It's a message board. "How do you know" is almost never useful here.

Ya. I know this....But you need to backtrack one more post. My post was in response to someone saying the search wasn't a "clusterf***." Make sure you reply to that other post as well to say the same.

 

[periferal]

Well, considering their former GM (and and current President) have lost in the first round five years in a row with 8 playoff wins and roughly during the same time Holland has 30 playoff wins, maybe their displeasure is misguided?

Yeah - Maybe it is, but will also be fun to watch you use the Blue Jackets results under Jarmo to paint him in a positive light if the Isles wind up hiring him.

 

[doublechili]

Did Staple actually post that the Isles are interviewing Bergevin, Kekalainen and Darche this week? Maybe it was behind a pay wall, but I haven't seen it. I've only seen Lebrun's tweet in which he was saying he was adding info ("Further to") to what Staple reported.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

I have no idea how they're operating or what if any consideration is being given to keeping Lou around in any capacity. I threw the parenthesis in there to cover my ass against making an absolutist statement in the event that he does somehow linger past June 30th. Staple and Botta are clearly just posting any snippet they hear from any even somewhat legitimate source. They're both keeping the fanbase "informed" while also generating business for their employing sites.

All we really know is that he won't be extended and retained as the General Manager when his contract expires on June 30th.

I hate everything about the bold.

I also see the concern of potential GM candidates with the shadow of Lou creeping around the building in any capacity.

Really, I hate everything about this hiring cycle. Sucks that it just could not have been a clean slate. And having the #1OA pick compounds my frustration.

(I also understand the guidance Lou can provide ownership after being in hockey for so damn long).

 

[Strummergas]

I also see the concern of potential GM candidates with the shadow of Lou creeping around the building in any capacity.

It really comes down to what ownership intends to do after June 30th. I would think/hope they'll inform a potential job candidate of this during the interview. I'd certainly ask if I were seeking the job.

 

[HyeDray]

Bergevin as President and Darche as GM — I would be pretty OK with that. I think they might just keep Roy on board at least to start the year in that scenario.

As long as Lou and his son Chris are OUT — and managment does not bring back Snow, Milbury or announce Varlamov as GM — Im good.

 

[Throttle]

Yeah - Maybe it is, but will also be fun to watch you use the Blue Jackets results under Jarmo to paint him in a positive light if the Isles wind up hiring him.

Probably not. I’ll see how it goes based on their performance as the Isles GM. The good thing is the Isles engine has the check engine service light on this summer. So, whomever it is is making decisions quickly.

 

[Throttle]

Did Staple actually post that the Isles are interviewing Bergevin, Kekalainen and Darche this week? Maybe it was behind a pay wall, but I haven't seen it. I've only seen Lebrun's tweet in which he was saying he was adding info ("Further to") to what Staple reported.

Two of these candidates are on the beach. Add Holland there too. One guy is employed as an AGM.

If they wanted the on the beach guys so bad, their teams would have allowed them to chat with them months ago, even weeks ago. That’s common courtesy because they are on the beach looking for and awaiting another management gig.

The only reason they didn’t do that is if you believe Collins had a temper tantrum and made the decision to not renew Lou and issue a public statement on it - that seems kinda implausible.