New York Islanders: Lamoriello Contract Not Renewed; John Collins Searching for Next GM

[periferal]

Not sure why you're confused.

I'm an Islanders fan. 40-50 years after the dynasty a lot of stories came out about Torrey and Develano's roles in building it.

Columbus I don't follow nearly as much as was asking a legit question if Jarmo was behind drafting those players...Or was it more the Jackets' scouting department.

Pretty simple, but you're conflating separate and individual issues.

 

[doublechili]

Not sure why you're confused.

I'm an Islanders fan. 40-50 years after the dynasty a lot of stories came out about Torrey sand Develano's roles in building it.

Columbus I don't follow nearly as much as was asking a legit question if Jarmo was behind drafting those players...Or was it more the Jackets' scouting department.

Pretty simple, but you're conflating separate and individual issues.

I was pointing out that you give Torrey credit for hiring Devellano but ignore that Jarmo hired his scouts. So either way, if he made the picks or the scouts did, Jarmo gets credit, right?

I'm very familiar with Devellano - he was the man.

 

[periferal]

I was pointing out that you give Torrey credit for hiring Devellano but ignore that Jarmo hired his scouts. So either way, if he made the picks or the scouts did, Jarmo gets credit, right?

I'm very familiar with Devellano - he was the man.

If Jarmo hired them - 100% he gets credit. Need to look further into it, but I think most of the scouting department was on board/kept before he arrived. If I'm wrong I stand corrected, but do you know for sure?

But...Jarmo never hired someone like Arbour. Not even close. And the results, well worse than Lou so why in the world would you hire that guy?

 

[miscs75]

Not sure why you're confused.

I'm an Islanders fan. 40-50 years after the dynasty a lot of stories came out about Torrey and Develano's roles in building it.

Columbus I don't follow nearly as much as was asking a legit question if Jarmo was behind drafting those players...Or was it more the Jackets' scouting department.

Pretty simple, but you're conflating separate and individual issues.

Even if Columbus kept scouts from before Jarmo was hired by Columbus, you have to think he brought in his main guys he trusts to assess talent. The Islanders need to hire more people with the pro scouting department and essentially not let the GM control every little thing with a small number of assistants for him. The complete opposite of how Lou ran the show. If they expand and upgrade the scouting department while hiring a much better director of scouting, the team is already on the right track.

 

[NC 1972]

Develano deserves a lot of respect, and Saracino pushed for Mike Bossy at 15 in 1977. The selections of Potvin, Gillies, Trottier and Bossy were the stepping stones to the 4 year Dynasty.

I will say, the draft picks of 1979 to 1984, were the death of the dynasty. Great pick in 1983 getting Lafontaine, but that was a gift from the hockey gods (like this year). But the dynasty could’ve lasted 8-10 years, like 6 or 7 Cups in 10 years if they had drafted correctly.

1979, Took Duane Sutter over Michel Goulet. I loved Dog, but Goulet was a Hall of Famer. Same draft Took Billy Carroll over Mark Messier. Carroll was picked 38th Messier was pick 48. Even if they hadn’t taken Messier, they passed over Neal Broten and Dale Hunter, both 900+ point centers.

1980 Draft, was fine with our first 3 picks. But in the 4th round, took Monty Trottier, one pick later the Oilers drafted Jari Kurri.

That’s just the 1979 and 1980 drafts, could you imagine the dynasty Islanders adding Goulet, Messier & Kurri ? Geez.

What if they took Stevie Y instead of Patty?

 

[doublechili]

What if they took Stevie Y instead of Patty?

If Hartford took Patty like they were expected to, you figure the Isles would've taken Yzerman, hopefully anyway. Instead Hartford took Turgeon, and Devellano took Yzerman as his first pick with DET at #4 after the Islestook Patty. Jimmy D built TWO multiple Cup winning teams. He's the greatest under the radar hockey executive ever.

 

[doublechili]

Re: the Isles current situation, we're stressing over reports from Staple and Botta. But to what extent are they accurate and how much are they those guys speculating to provide content and get clicks? Is the process leaking info to the extent that we're getting blow by blow updates on everything as Staple and Botta would have us think?

As I think about it, if I were in the shoes of Malkin/Collins, I'd start the search with guys who have been GMs like Holland, Bergevin, etc.. It's the logical place to start for protocol and also for gathering info. Then move to AGMs, some of whom you have to wait to interview anyway until their teams are done.

IDK that just seems like a logical process. Hopefully that's what is really going on, rather than the stuff that's being put out there.

 

[periferal]

Re: the Isles current situation, we're stressing over reports from Staple and Botta. But to what extent are they accurate and how much are they those guys speculating to provide content and get clicks? Is the process leaking info to the extent that we're getting blow by blow updates on everything as Staple and Botta would have us think?

As I think about it, if I were in the shoes of Malkin/Collins, I'd start the search with guys who have been GMs like Holland, Bergevin, etc.. It's the logical place to start for protocol and also for gathering info. Then move to AGMs, some of whom you have to wait to interview anyway until their teams are done.

IDK that just seems like a logical process. Hopefully that's what is really going on, rather than the stuff that's being put out there.

I hear you and maybe all will work out in the end.

However...

Lou not being totally removed from the premises is what should concern all of us. That's on Malkin and has nothing to do with how reporting is angled.

 

[doublechili]

I hear you and maybe all will work out in the end.

However...

Lou not being totally removed from the premises is what should concern all of us. That's on Malkin and has nothing to do with how reporting is angled.

I understand the desire to move him out, but the fact is that Lou was not fired. The announcement was that his contract is not being extended. That contract ends June 30th. Lou seems like the kind of by the book company man that would honor that as necessary. So, unlike a Snow or Milbury, I'm not concerned that he'll sabotage anything.

Most importantly, I know you agree that the most important thing is to hire the right people. Some of them could be employed for several more weeks. Or their current teams may agree to release them from their contracts but not until after the draft. And even if they're working for the Isles by the draft, they'll still likely have to work with the current scouting staff. So, ownership doesn't lose anything by keeping a fully staffed hockey operations department. It gives them more options and allows them to push the decision if that's what it takes to get the right people for hopefully the next ten years or more.

BTW, I should make it clear that I'm not saying Lou should be actively GMing. Just fill the position.

 

[MarsTBOW]

Do we have any evidence that our scouting staff will be revamped under a new G.M.?
If Lou hangs around my bet is No....
If Darche becomes our new G.M. how many will he bring to us?
My Fear is Malkin keeps what we got as far as Scouts go...

 

[LeapOnOver]

I would agree he didn't necessarily do a terrible job, and there are positives to his tenure, but you didn't mention allowing Panarin and Bobrovsky to walk for nothing when they clearly weren't going to resign in Columbus. I think those were two bad moves and as Islander fans, that is a particularly glaring issue.

That, along with the boneheaded hiring of Mike Babcock stand out as very bad decisions.

I'll take it to my grave that is one of the things I respect him for. He didn't treat their leaving passively either. He doubled down and traded for more talent to try to win a cup that year. CBJ suffers from the same thing the Isles do. It's hard to keep drafted talent and attract UFAs. He was still able to build a pretty good club and honestly that move was going to make or break him. The latter happened, but goddman he'd be a CBJ legend if it paid off.

 

[Konk]

I'll take it to my grave that is one of the things I respect him for. He didn't treat their leaving passively either. He doubled down and traded for more talent to try to win a cup that year. CBJ suffers from the same thing the Isles do. It's hard to keep drafted talent and attract UFAs. He was still able to build a pretty good club and honestly that move was going to make or break him. The latter happened, but goddman he'd be a CBJ legend if it paid off.

They were nowhere near cup competition and doubling down on a stupid decision wasn't a smart gamble, it was throwing good money after bad.

That type of recklessness would worry me to no end if he was the Isles GM. I don't mind smart, calculated gambles, but that was clearly a bad decision from the start.

 

[LeapOnOver]

They were nowhere near cup competition and doubling down on a stupid decision wasn't a smart gamble, it was throwing good money after bad.

That type of recklessness would worry me to no end if he was the Isles GM. I don't mind smart, calculated gambles, but that was clearly a bad decision from the start.

Well, I disagree. They had a pretty good team. But lines like this are infuriating. That's not something that's measurable, lol. It's 100% opinion based, and not to mention circular. Obviously Jarmo disagreed with you. So do I. Sure, you ended up being right. But decisions aren't made using time machines.

 

[doublechili]

That kind of decision (by CBJ re: Panarin and Bobrovsky) is also one that ownership can be involved in. Just saying.

 

[Konk]

Well, I disagree. They had a pretty good team. But lines like this are infuriating. That's not something that's measurable, lol. It's 100% opinion based, and not to mention circular. Obviously Jarmo disagreed with you. So do I. Sure, you ended up being right. But decisions aren't made using time machines.

Pretending that the 2nd wildcard team in the Eastern conference that Boston bounced in 6 games in the 2nd round was a legit Cup contender is extremely disingenuous, if not complete revisionist history. Hell, up until that point they were the only NHL team that hadn't even won a single playoff series.

Not only that, we know from interviews Jarmo wasn't expecting Cup contention by holding Panarin and Bobrovsky, but he no longer wanted to push being competitive into the future and wanted to see what the roster could do before Panarin and Bobrovsky walked. He even mentioned at the time they weren't considered Cup contenders.

“We said right from the start, we’re not going to trade Panarin for just draft picks,” Kekalainen says, adding he always believed Bobrovsky’s performance would even out. “It doesn’t make any sense for us, we’re just moving the window with our team into the future. This franchise has been doing that enough. We weren’t going to do that. We wanted to see what this team could do."

...

“We don’t think we’re taking any crazy chances,” says Kekalainen. “Because we weren’t considered a Cup contender, everybody is like, “Ooh, ahh, they’re mortgaging their future; we don’t feel that way at all. If you have 10 great prospects of the same age, they’re not going to all play for you anyway. Our future is in good shape. We can afford to sacrifice some draft picks to get some immediate help, and that’s what we did. This was not a thing that happened at the deadline. This was a thing we’ve been thinking about all year.”

If you want to say you admire him for simply going for it, despite the low chances and not being a top contender, but wanting to have as much success as possible and be competitive -- fine, that's fair. But to sit here and revise history to suggest they were Cup contenders, you're only fooling youtself. No one considered them as such, their track record in the playoffs in previous seasons didn't suggest they were. It was widely held belief that mortgaging their future was a bad decision. It didn't take a time machine, everyone knew what it was at the time.

Ultimately, they did win their first playoff series, which I guess was basically Columbus' Stanley Cup, so maybe you were right afterall?

 

[Throttle]

That kind of decision (by CBJ re: Panarin and Bobrovsky) is also one that ownership can be involved in. Just saying.

And keeping Bob was a super high risk signing. Yes, he won a Cup for FL - they used 6 goalies to get it, in part, bc of him - but that contract was an anchor for years on Florida, of all places.

Bob also benefited from Torts in CLB.

 

[Throttle]

Re: the Isles current situation, we're stressing over reports from Staple and Botta. But to what extent are they accurate and how much are they those guys speculating to provide content and get clicks? Is the process leaking info to the extent that we're getting blow by blow updates on everything as Staple and Botta would have us think?

As I think about it, if I were in the shoes of Malkin/Collins, I'd start the search with guys who have been GMs like Holland, Bergevin, etc.. It's the logical place to start for protocol and also for gathering info. Then move to AGMs, some of whom you have to wait to interview anyway until their teams are done.

IDK that just seems like a logical process. Hopefully that's what is really going on, rather than the stuff that's being put out there.

It’s a click bait drama show. My guess is Collins is floating information out there to provide some names, keep the Isles name out their for those that are in the playoffs waiting for their season to end, which may be in June btw.

I have no doubt they know who they want and it’s just normal due diligence process at this point.

The Isles have a bit of head scratcher of an offseason ahead of them, why not get input from other GMs on how to handle it? And why? That’s smart. You hire a guy yesterday, you get one voice/vision - that’s it.

 

[periferal]

I understand the desire to move him out, but the fact is that Lou was not fired. The announcement was that his contract is not being extended. That contract ends June 30th. Lou seems like the kind of by the book company man that would honor that as necessary. So, unlike a Snow or Milbury, I'm not concerned that he'll sabotage anything.

Most importantly, I know you agree that the most important thing is to hire the right people. Some of them could be employed for several more weeks. Or their current teams may agree to release them from their contracts but not until after the draft. And even if they're working for the Isles by the draft, they'll still likely have to work with the current scouting staff. So, ownership doesn't lose anything by keeping a fully staffed hockey operations department. It gives them more options and allows them to push the decision if that's what it takes to get the right people for hopefully the next ten years or more.

BTW, I should make it clear that I'm not saying Lou should be actively GMing. Just fill the position.

I hear what you're saying, but here's the thing...

Lou should have ZERO say in who the next President/GM is.

And if he's in the building people are listening to him. And even if Collins/Malkin are doing their own thing, I can promise you that it affects any interviewee to come in and know that Lou is on the premises somewhere.

There's also zero downside to removing Lou from the building...But potential downside if a great candidate is concerned about his involvement.

I don't care about company man or when a contract ends. The reason you don't renew a contact (aka, fire someone) is because they're failing at their job. And if they're failing at the job then they shouldn't be around anymore. Malkin didn't feel the need to keep Snow around once he fired him, so the precedent has been set.

If you have no intention of keeping Lou around in 6 weeks, and he should have no say in who replaces him, then give him the Garth Snow treatment. End this shit in totality already.

 

[periferal]

Well, I disagree. They had a pretty good team. But lines like this are infuriating. That's not something that's measurable, lol. It's 100% opinion based, and not to mention circular. Obviously Jarmo disagreed with you. So do I. Sure, you ended up being right. But decisions aren't made using time machines.

Again...Nothing is life is 100%, but there are clues and trends that do give you an indication of how things might play out.

So for example teams that win the Cup usually are not only in the playoffs for years leading up to that Cup win, but have success in the playoffs.

When the Blue Jackets went all is they had only been in the playoffs the previous two years....And had ZERO playoff series wins in their franchises history.

So while again nothing is 100% and anything could've happened, the odds for the 2019 Blue Jackets winning the Cup was longer. Add in the fact that everyone knew they were losing Panarin and Bobrovsky...And then added two more players in Duchene and Dzingel who everyone know they were going to lose...Is about as bad of asset management as you'll ever see.

They gave away multiple top picks and prospects, not to mention the picks & prospects they missed out on by not trading Panarin/Bobrovsky all to get nowhere near a Cup. They literally just thew top assets away that all could be putting their team over the top in the years since those players left.

All that said word is that Jarmo's hand might've been forces to go "all in," but whomever decided to go that route failed the franchise and fans on a grand level.

 

[periferal]

I'm not sure if she's ready to be a GM (or if she's make a good one), but Kate Madigan is very likable. If she gets her shot one day I really hope she dominates. Would change the game.

 

[IslesNorway]

She is on the list of interviewees.

I've said before, and I'll say it again, I want no part of the old boys club. I'd rather have her than Bergevin or Käkelainen, who have been around for years and years and accomplished next to nothing. Hockey is too kind to its own giving them ample opportunities again and again, failing again and again.

And even though the turnover of coaches and GMs in soccer are alarming, hockey should take note. If you haven't got anywhere in 3-4 years, it's time to go.

 

[saintunspecified]

I've said before, and I'll say it again, I want no part of the old boys club. I'd rather have her than Bergevin or Käkelainen, who have been around for years and years and accomplished next to nothing. Hockey is too kind to its own giving them ample opportunities again and again, failing again and again.

100% agree. There are exceptions, but I definitely don't want either of those two *or* Holland. Also, it makes zero sense to keep LL in an advisory role - it only gives the impression that the new GM doesn't have complete authority.

I think there's generally more good reason to give second chances to coaches, especially coaches who were in tough spots to begin with. Not evaluating the coaches themselves, only the spots - Lambert and Larsen both come to mind. I would not be surprised at all should either get another shot to coach.

 

[Arsenalogist24]

The “daily updates” have dried up. Lou got everyone to shut up. Dammit

 

[xECK29x]

The “daily updates” have dried up. Lou got everyone to shut up. Dammit

The clout was chased

 

[MJF]

She is on the list of interviewees.

I've said before, and I'll say it again, I want no part of the old boys club. I'd rather have her than Bergevin or Käkelainen, who have been around for years and years and accomplished next to nothing. Hockey is too kind to its own giving them ample opportunities again and again, failing again and again.

And even though the turnover of coaches and GMs in soccer are alarming, hockey should take note. If you haven't got anywhere in 3-4 years, it's time to go.

If you put a silhouette in place of her picture and name, then read her qualifications, you'd have her as a top candidate for a GM position. She's more than qualified to sit at the adults table and run a 21st century NHL team.