Toggle sidebar

New York Islanders: Lamoriello Contract Not Renewed; John Collins Searching for Next GM

Friedman on 32TP with some interesting comments on the Isles GM search, seems like it’s leaning Bergevin:


“There was a lot of news on the weekend about a potential hiring, we’ll see where that goes. I could see why there’s the possibility of that because some of the contenders like Jarmo Kekalainen, you don’t have to worry for a team to wait to talk to him. I know there was some noise for Marc Bergevin on the weekend, I had a couple people tell me that is premature, but I do believe Bergevin is a serious contender there…Lamoriello is still there which means a certain amount of secrecy in the process, but I do believe Bergevin is a serious contender there.”
 
SRBisles said:
Friedman on 32TP with some interesting comments on the Isles GM search, seems like it’s leaning Bergevin:


“There was a lot of news on the weekend about a potential hiring, we’ll see where that goes. I could see why there’s the possibility of that because some of the contenders like Jarmo Kekalainen, you don’t have to worry for a team to wait to talk to him. I know there was some noise for Marc Bergevin on the weekend, I had a couple people tell me that is premature, but I do believe Bergevin is a serious contender there…Lamoriello is still there which means a certain amount of secrecy in the process, but I do believe Bergevin is a serious contender there.”
Click to expand...
Lamariello is still there?

Are people afraid to tell him to leave?
 
  • Angry
Reactions: periferal
Zeeker said:
Lamariello is still there?

Are people afraid to tell him to leave?
Click to expand...
They didn’t renew his contract. He wasn’t terminated. Different things.

Player contracts end June 30. Management contracts can end whenever they want. I suspect there’s a clause of w/2-5 days of the last game playoff game played or a firm date like June 30.
 
Throttle said:
They didn’t renew his contract. He wasn’t terminated. Different things.

Player contracts end June 30. Management contracts can end whenever they want. I suspect there’s a clause of w/2-5 days of the last game playoff game played or a firm date like June 30.
Click to expand...

I'm just not understanding why, independent of any official contract date, why Lou would want to be in the building knowing and why Malkin/Collins would want him there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SRBisles
SRBisles said:
Just wait until you see his expressionless mug representing the Isles at the draft lottery tonight.
Click to expand...

I'd be legit upset if I ever see him representing the Isles anywhere ever again. Malkin/Collins should be controlling this. It's time to turn the page on all fronts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SRBisles
periferal said:
I'd be legit upset if I ever see him representing the Isles anywhere ever again. Malkin/Collins should be controlling this. It's time to turn the page on all fronts.
Click to expand...
As long as Lou has no real power I dont see the harm in him showing up to represent the club.

He is in his Vito role, we need a Michael for him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: icelander25
periferal said:
I'm just not understanding why, independent of any official contract date, why Lou would want to be in the building knowing and why Malkin/Collins would want him there.
Click to expand...
Probably out of respect. There’s a reason they went with the ‘non-renewing of his contract’ vs. fired.
 
Throttle said:
Probably out of respect. There’s a reason they went with the ‘non-renewing of his contract’ vs. fired.
Click to expand...

I say f*** respect because name another "legendary" coach/GM that got fired...However you position it (fired, non-renewing, mutually parting ways, etc), all those other guys were shown the door immediately.

I don't want any interviewees coming through the door and even having to see Lou. If he was better at his job he'd still have it. When you make the decision to move on....Then f***ing move on by emotionally, spitiually, and certainly physically removing that person from anything to do with your team.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LAIcelanders
periferal said:
I say f*** respect because name another "legendary" coach/GM that got fired...However you position it (fired, non-renewing, mutually parting ways, etc), all those other guys were shown the door immediately.

I don't want any interviewees coming through the door and even having to see Lou. If he was better at his job he'd still have it. When you make the decision to move on....Then f***ing move on by emotionally, spitiually, and certainly physically removing that person from anything to do with your team.
Click to expand...
Toronto sunset him gracefully too. Nothing to get worked up about.

If Collins/Malkin let him go, then they’ll certainly be making their own independent decisions on who to hire, whether Lou has any input or not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: periferal
Throttle said:
Probably out of respect. There’s a reason they went with the ‘non-renewing of his contract’ vs. fired.
Click to expand...

Kind of strange how they handled it though. Announced his contract would not be renewed. Was removed from site and staff directory only to be added back on. Now Freidman throws out how he's still there. Hopefully he has little say in anything moving forward to whenever his contract actually expires. (Was originally hired may 22, 2018 so maybe around then). I cant imagine ownership allowing him to still talk contracts given his soon departure.
 
periferal said:
All your points are well taken. They're points and topics that should be discussed. To clarify, here's the way I see it...

  • You're almost certainly not going to win a Cup without a core of top-end/elite talent...
  • ...That has played together for a few years.
  • That talent is usually found at the top end of NHL drafts...
  • ...But it's usually found in drafts...
  • ...Which is why any team that wins usually has a great, if not exceptional, scouting department.
  • Of course there are exceptions to these points that can get you a Cup (or close to one), but usually the exception requires something "elite" - Elite expansion draft rules (Vegas). Elite goaltending (Binnington). Elite coaching (Trotz). Elite playoff performances (McDavid/Draisaitl).
  • And at the end of the day...There are zero guarantees, but there are trends and they shouldn't be ignored.

However all of this is just the foundation. Even if you have a great core of players, you still need a franchise that's run well and can develop those players. You need great training facilities and staff. Good coaching, etc.

Look at the Sabres. They have a bunch of young talent that should be better than their continued bottom 7 finishes every year. I think everyone would agree they're the worst run franchise. I mean how in the world do you hire Lindy Ruff AGAIN!?!? Pathetic (and the players know it).

I also believe that if new (competent) ownership took over there, they got a new front office, coaching staff, etc, that same group of players could/would play much better than they are playing.

To that point I also think that partly explains why the Blue Jackets never win (also considering they've had some excellent talent over there through the years). To me they're also one of the worst run organizations and so their staff is not doing everything possible to maximize whatever roster they have on a year to year basis. It's why in 25 years they have 6 playoff appearances and only 1 series win (thanks to an elite performance by Bobrovksy).

What helps crystalize the issue for me is when I look at a comparison between two coaches like Dan Bylsma and Barry Trotz. Trotz to me was the best coach in the league (one of the best of all time) and took a very average Islander lineup to the semi-finals, but eventually lack of scoring (talent) stopped them from going further.

Conversely I think Dan Bylsma is one of the worst coaches in the past 25 years and yet...He has a Cup. Why? Because he "coached" (better yet - Sat behind the bench" of) a team with multiple hall of fame/generational players on it. The Penguins won the Cup in spite of Bylsma - Not because of him. Bylsma cannot do what Trotz did with the Islanders and that beared itself out with not only the fact that only Buffalo and Seattle wanted a "Cup winning coach," but how he performed there (and the fact that between those 2 teams he only lasted 3 years total).

Anyway when I look at those 2 coaches and their situations makes it pretty clear to me that elite coaching can only take you so far....But elite talent can carry average/poor coaching all the way to a championship.

Add it all up and while there are several factors that go into winning a Cup, the most important factor is talent. And again that elite talent is almost always acquired through the draft, which means that the scouting department for any NHL team is probably the most important staff in the franchise (as long as the GM listens to them).

So I legit don't care if my team finds the next Kucherov in the 2nd round or Nick Lidstrom in the 3rd, but we've got to improve the drafting because we're not winning without that. Even the Isles teams that Trotz went on a run with were mostly home-grown...They just weren't talented enough. Had Snow/scouts drafted better with those Dal Colle/Strome picks in the top 5 we just might've had a Cup (or two) in the past 5 years. :(
Click to expand...

Sorry it has taken so long for me to reply but I thought this was important to respond to because I appreciate the response (regardless of how the rest of that conversation finished up).

Your explanation for the '19 Blue Jackets failure being down to poor organizational management is plausible. We've all seen teams seemingly underperform their talent level. But it does shift the goalposts a bit. If they had the talent but failed due to management it feels like a factor that’s easier to judge after a team fails ("they must be poorly run") than before. How do you accurately evaluate management beforehand?

You didn't directly address the Jets based on the original criteria either, but applying your expanded view now: Core together? Check. Elite factor (Hellebuyck)? Check. Management/coaching seemingly decent? Check. Do they make the cut now? I wish this was addressed prior to them winning the first round but I'll take your word on what you thought prior to that.

The Bylsma and Trotz thing kind of goes both ways too. Bylsma was the beneficiary of a great roster, no doubt. I'm a believer in teams requiring different coaches at different times and he was a good fit for that team at that specific time (after the hard ass Therrien) but he's not someone I'd want coaching my team for any long period of time. Trotz shows the opposite side, where the coach makes up and elevates his team beyond what they should be. That means if you have the right coach you don't need as much talent, but more talent makes it easier. Further emphasizing the importance of good management.

Yzerman is the only GM I recall you really liking (because of my own inability to remember, not because you didn't post about anyone else) and he's struggled mightily in Detroit. Has he shifted into the bad GM category for you after being stuck in neutral for all these years? Why or why not?

What this really highlights is that adding necessary factors like "core together," "good management," "good coaching," and "scouting depth" makes the picture more accurate but much harder to pin down predictively. You're right, there are no guarantees, only trends. But how do we use these trends and factors before the puck drops? How do we, the fans, know the management is good before they acquire the talent?

This difficulty in finding consistent, predictive factors might also connect to a broader pattern that can make these discussions frustrating for some. It often feels like the basis for evaluating teams can shift within the argument. We might start with appeals to facts or identifiable trends, like the initial focus on draft pick numbers, but when confronted with exceptions or complexities (like the CBJ case, or why certain teams don't fit the trend), the justification seems to pivot. Explanations then rely more on harder to quantify elements like 'management quality,' needing specific 'elite' individual performances, or perhaps what comes across as strongly held, passionate assessments developed after the fact.

This back-and-forth, switching between objective data and more subjective interpretations or passionate conviction might be why these conversations can feel circular, or why points initially presented as fact/trend-based analysis can seem resistant to counter-evidence, appearing more like unwavering beliefs.

I don't expect you, or any of us, to know the very specific answers to these questions. If we did, we'd likely be employed in the NHL somewhere. I'm just looking for a little more clarity with some of the conversation.
 
Well my friends...

Certainly seems like we're down the home stretch and there are some "horses" clearly out in the lead. Not sure what Bergevin has done to show he'd be a decent, much less good, President of Hockey Ops, but I'd rather him in that role than GM.

I don't know enough about Darche, but I would certainly take him as GM given what I've heard from him (and considering the other names we've heard for the position). Given all that I guess right now he'd be my 1st choice.

End of day this team needed new blood, energy, and direction for the last 2-3 years so short of hiring Chiarelli, Snow, or Milbury back, it will be welcomed.

Now...GO AND FIX THE SCOUTING DEPARTMENT? NO. MORE. BLOWN. PICKS!!!!



 
Kelly McCrimmon after years with the Brandon Wheat Kings, turned down an offer to join Toronto’s management team when Lou was their GM. They already had Dubas as AGM at that time. The brilliant heir apparent (LMAO).

He later signed on to be the AGM of Vegas under McPhee as GM. McPhee would later step up to PHO with McCrimmon serving as GM. Wins a SC.

Toronto has won 2 playoff rounds since that time, one under Dubas, one under Treviling…and Dubas hasn’t even made the playoffs since joining PIT.
 
SRBisles said:
Friedman on 32TP with some interesting comments on the Isles GM search, seems like it’s leaning Bergevin:


“There was a lot of news on the weekend about a potential hiring, we’ll see where that goes. I could see why there’s the possibility of that because some of the contenders like Jarmo Kekalainen, you don’t have to worry for a team to wait to talk to him. I know there was some noise for Marc Bergevin on the weekend, I had a couple people tell me that is premature, but I do believe Bergevin is a serious contender there…Lamoriello is still there which means a certain amount of secrecy in the process, but I do believe Bergevin is a serious contender there.”
Click to expand...
aprox what time of the pod ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

  • ... and 3 more.
    • Total: 18 (members: 14, guests: 4)

    Latest posts

    Ad

    Ad

    Top Bottom