Prospect Info: LAK Draft (83rd, 2020) RW Alex Laferriere, Des Moines, USHL

King'sPawn

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It wasn't unfair. He had the lowest shooting % of any regular forward on the team aside from Trevor Lewis.
He was 10th on the team inscoring. Cherrypicking shooting % is a stretch. And he was only .3% less than Arvidsson. Where were the conversations about his shooting percentage?
He showed he 'belonged' from an effort, checking standpoint. He didn't show he belonged from a production standpoint. I don't think it's unfair to ask him to get more 'scoring situation' time on the PP/top lines in the AHL especially given he's never played the rigors of a full pro season and we could see him slow down as the season went on.
Why will getting him more scoring situation time, especially on the PP, help him? Are you wanting the Kings to play him on the powerplay?
And hey I'd rather other underachieving vets get benched in favor of youth but I also don't see anything horribly wrong with giving Fagemo more than 4 NHL games and Turcotte given they're all the same ages and been pros longer? The whole idea isn't just to let them rot in the AHL forever, it's to give them cups of coffee to learn, return, practice, no? Wasn't saying send him down for the year.
Because Laferriere outworked and outplayed Fagemo. Why give Fagemo a cup of coffee over a player who did better and is 18 months younger?

I don't want the youth rotting in the AHL either. And I agree with youth getting opportunity. But the problem has been the Kings leaning too much on the vets. When the youth struggles, they get benched or demoted. When a vet struggles, they "get time to sort it out." Give Fagemo a game back when Grundstrom was struggling. Or when PLD was floating around. Keeping the underachieving vets on the roster and switching out the youth who work to show they belong is exactly why the org is in its current state.
I don't see why this is considered a horrible insult. And I dont see it as 'incentivizing youth' when he's the only one getting it. And again this is less of a slam of Laferriere and much more one of development.
I don't see how calling someone "part of x problem", especially with how big that problem was, and have it not be an insult.

The Kings cut bait with PLD, a client of their buddy agent. He was that bad. Comparing his lack of effort to Byfield's struggles is a false equivalence.

Since Byfield struggled to put up points the season before last, should the Kings have made him play in the AHL more? His shooting percentage was only 4.9%. That's almost half of Laferriere's.
 

Schmooley

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Since Byfield struggled to put up points the season before last, should the Kings have made him play in the AHL more? His shooting percentage was only 4.9%. That's almost half of Laferriere's.
They did make Byfield play in the AHL a lot. Laferriere is the only prospect who wasnt subject to that treatment. It was great for him. I dont get why he got that treatment and no other player did because he wasnt really any better than the others and he never even had to go through the 4th line small minutes role either. Maybe because he dropped the gloves?
And I like the player and how he played in the playoffs.
 

King'sPawn

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They did make Byfield play in the AHL a lot. Laferriere is the only prospect who wasnt subject to that treatment. It was great for him. I dont get why he got that treatment and no other player did because he wasnt really any better than the others and he never even had to go through the 4th line small minutes role either. Maybe because he dropped the gloves?
And I like the player and how he played in the playoffs.
And as mentioned, I agree that players got less opportunity than Laferriere, which is unfair. But that doesn't mean the default response shod be to punish Laferriere.

And I know Byfield played in the AHL a lot. It didn't help his shooting percentage. It took time and opportunity in the NHL to adjust his game.
 
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Raccoon Jesus

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And as mentioned, I agree that players got less opportunity than Laferriere, which is unfair. But that doesn't mean the default response shod be to punish Laferriere.

And I know Byfield played in the AHL a lot. It didn't help his shooting percentage. It took time and opportunity in the NHL to adjust his game.

The whole problem here is that you see it as a punishment. I'm not saying he's playing bad and needs to be benched.

I mean I think we all agree that it should be more about benching other guys he is outperforming in order to give the right opportunities to ALL the youth. In Laferriere's case, if they just see him as a bottom line guy, then fine. But if they see some offensive upside, then he's gotta play some more offensive minutes too. Edit: it's the same damn things I've said about kaliyev, turcotte, fagemo, but no one's come after me for those statements.

But I don't see any reason you need to forcefeed a rookie 82 games either. It's not a 'punishment' to play a guy 70 games when the most he's ever played in a year, at the USHL level, was 49. It was clear he was fading down the stretch and to be fair its' not just him, Trevor Lewis was a corpse as well, and of course Anze and Drew were insanely overplayed. like why have all these extra pieces if you're not going to cycle them thru.

Edit: and just saw the Byfield chain...yeah, they adjusted and helped him by moving him up into actual scoring minutes. It appears they may do that for Laf, as well. So shrug. That's all I'm asking for. I'm not sure why it's such a hot button issue when everyone seems to agree that deployment is dog shit and meritocracy doesn't exist, other than that you don't like one poster's statement about Laf's contributions to the lineup's scoring woes, which are accurate. Yeah, PLD is dogshit, no one is inadvertently defending him, just saying Laf got a lot of leash for a guy who was having finishing trouble.
 
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GoldenBearHockey

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They did make Byfield play in the AHL a lot. Laferriere is the only prospect who wasnt subject to that treatment. It was great for him. I dont get why he got that treatment and no other player did because he wasnt really any better than the others and he never even had to go through the 4th line small minutes role either. Maybe because he dropped the gloves?
And I like the player and how he played in the playoffs.
55 games over 3 seasons is NOT a lot....cmon man
 

BaileyFan

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Laf would have started on the Reign’s 4th line and would’ve had to work his way up to getting PP2 cleanup duty by the end of the season. If scoring is the issue, Ontario is the last place we should want him to be.
 

King'sPawn

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The whole problem here is that you see it as a punishment. I'm not saying he's playing bad and needs to be benched.
So why did you point out the terrible shooting percentage? You bring up, in various ways, that his production wasn't good enough, despite the fact he was top-10 in team scoring as a rookie while averaging 0:36 seconds of PP time per game.
I mean I think we all agree that it should be more about benching other guys he is outperforming in order to give the right opportunities to ALL the youth. In Laferriere's case, if they just see him as a bottom line guy, then fine. But if they see some offensive upside, then he's gotta play some more offensive minutes too.
Do you think Laferriere will be a regular top-6 forward, even with ideal development? If no, then why are we talking about giving him more offensive touches? Maybe that's where the disconnect is - maybe you see him as more than a depth/utility forward, possibly a tweener. But his success at the NCAA level was being an all-situation type of forward who provided energy and a good forecheck.
But I don't see any reason you need to forcefeed a rookie 82 games either. It's not a 'punishment' to play a guy 70 games when the most he's ever played in a year, at the USHL level, was 49. It was clear he was fading down the stretch and to be fair its' not just him, Trevor Lewis was a corpse as well, and of course Anze and Drew were insanely overplayed. like why have all these extra pieces if you're not going to cycle them thru.
We're not talking about giving him rest from playing too many games though. We're talking about sending him down to the AHL. On an ELC, that means he makes (I think) $82.5k versus around $950k at the NHL level. And they'd be putting him in a role less suited for him.

It's why Blake shouldn't have put the team against the cap last season where he could only ice a roster of 21. If they wanted to sit him to rest - sure - sit him for a game or two and put Fagemo in there. But you can't advocate for making a move that's equivalent to a 90% paycut and argue it's not a punishment to Laferriere. Not when he literally fought his way onto the lineup and fought all season to stay in the lineup.

Of course, maybe that's just me.
 

Raccoon Jesus

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So why did you point out the terrible shooting percentage? You bring up, in various ways, that his production wasn't good enough, despite the fact he was top-10 in team scoring as a rookie while averaging 0:36 seconds of PP time per game.

Do you think Laferriere will be a regular top-6 forward, even with ideal development? If no, then why are we talking about giving him more offensive touches? Maybe that's where the disconnect is - maybe you see him as more than a depth/utility forward, possibly a tweener. But his success at the NCAA level was being an all-situation type of forward who provided energy and a good forecheck.

We're not talking about giving him rest from playing too many games though. We're talking about sending him down to the AHL. On an ELC, that means he makes (I think) $82.5k versus around $950k at the NHL level. And they'd be putting him in a role less suited for him.

It's why Blake shouldn't have put the team against the cap last season where he could only ice a roster of 21. If they wanted to sit him to rest - sure - sit him for a game or two and put Fagemo in there. But you can't advocate for making a move that's equivalent to a 90% paycut and argue it's not a punishment to Laferriere. Not when he literally fought his way onto the lineup and fought all season to stay in the lineup.

Of course, maybe that's just me.

I just think he has some untapped offense that will be stifled if they JUST use him as a depth guy. No more, no less. He doesn't have to be a regular top six forward to be useful offensively. "all situations" is a good way to put it but that doesn't mean no offense either.

I guess I don't understand why you're fighting this hard for Laf simply staying in the lineup and not even close to the same amount of breath on any other kid, employing the pathos of an AHL paycut is kind of petty, especially if we're actually talking big picture and not just taking this personally somehow.

He's a likeable kid! I'm rooting for him, he stuck up for people, he made a good name for himself, I love his energy and drive and how he carries himself...but you're making me feel like an asshole about that and making it sound like he should have been irreplaceable in the lineup; he's not flawless and while I like to reward 'hard work' you're applying that only to Laf and ignoring plenty of others here. I'm not trying to 'punish' him. I'm trying to think of ways to further develop him. But sure, I guess maybe he's just a 10-10 guy over 82 games and I'm the weirdo for thinking otherwise and suggesting other ways to get there instead of making him smoke the whole pack.

I would actually argue that 'just work thru it' for 82 games on Laf's situation with no flexibility is just about as dumb as keeping other guys glass ceilinged in the AHL for a few years. Throw what you can at these guys, see how they handle it, adjust. Right now it's just 'here's a fire hose, Laf, and here's a toy donkey, Akil.'
 

King'sPawn

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I just think he has some untapped offense that will be stifled if they JUST use him as a depth guy. No more, no less. He doesn't have to be a regular top six forward to be useful offensively. "all situations" is a good way to put it but that doesn't mean no offense either.
I disagree. And that's not a knock on Laferriere. I just don't think he's a top-six forward. At best, a tweener.
I guess I don't understand why you're fighting this hard for Laf simply staying in the lineup and not even close to the same amount of breath on any other kid, employing the pathos of an AHL paycut is kind of petty, especially if we're actually talking big picture and not just taking this personally somehow.
It's the offseason, where there's not much to talk about aside from our stubborn opinions.

But my biggest reason for fighting it is the Kings FINALLY get it right with a prospect, and now people are saying they should have handled him differently. They should have given other prospects a shot in lieu of underachieving vets who weren't pulling their weight.

As far as bringing up salary, you said that playing someone else in his place isn't a punishment. If I had to take a 90% paycut for a while because management would rather demote me to the AHL for someone I outplayed is pretty significant. It's not like Fagemo outplayed or outworked him. Turcotte's a fair argument, but again, I think Laferriere's effort earned it.

If Thomas or Turcotte got the spot on opening night roster and played at the level Laferriere did, I'd be advocating for them too. It's not a defense of Laferriere. It's a defense of prospects not being jerked around due to:
- cap issues
- playing undeserving/underachieving vets over them

He's a likeable kid! I'm rooting for him, he stuck up for people, he made a good name for himself, I love his energy and drive and how he carries himself...but you're making me feel like an asshole about that and making it sound like he should have been irreplaceable in the lineup; he's not flawless and while I like to reward 'hard work' you're applying that only to Laf and ignoring plenty of others here. I'm not trying to 'punish' him. I'm trying to think of ways to further develop him. But sure, I guess maybe he's just a 10-10 guy over 82 games and I'm the weirdo for thinking otherwise and suggesting other ways to get there instead of making him smoke the whole pack.
Sorry, that's obviously not my intention. I just think Laferriere's issues are experience related, and from what I saw, I don't see a benefit to him going to the AHL. So, I'm vehemently against any prospect going down there for reasons other than his best interest.

I can tell you have his best interest in mind, and maybe the disagreement is justvwhat that is.

But I'll also vehemently protest any assertion he was 'part if the PLD problem' (I know that wasn't what you said, but it was mentioned).
I would actually argue that 'just work thru it' for 82 games on Laf's situation with no flexibility is just about as dumb as keeping other guys glass ceilinged in the AHL for a few years. Throw what you can at these guys, see how they handle it, adjust. Right now it's just 'here's a fire hose, Laf, and here's a toy donkey, Akil.'
I wasn't arguing Laf should work through it. I was arguing the disparity of how vets versus prospects getting handled is bad. Frankly, the org should give less ice time and sit anyone who isn't playing up to snuff.

You seem to think my defense is specifically for Laferriere. It's not. He was just a step in the right direction for prospect management, and to the contrary, I want all prospects to get equal treatment, all other factors being equal.
 

Eagle Fang

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It's not hate at all. I've seen nothing but realistic evaluation of this kid yet inequitable treatment between him and other youth.

I like him a lot, plays an honest north-south game, hits to staple guys to the boards, will drop them. Good bottom sixer with some possible upside--but if you want the guy to score more he needs more offensive touches hence why we would have liked to see him get some AHL top line/PP time.

I also think he'll take a good step forward this year FWIW.

I agree 100% and I posted something very similar way back in November. At the time, his game started to struggle a bit and I thought he might benefit from not just going to ONT, but getting top line and PP minutes there.

The reason wasn't punishment. As you mentioned he's got potential upside for offense. I felt getting a chance to refine that area of his game would be helpful considering he was a rookie coming straight from college.

It's probably moot now, but I still think it would've been a good thing... despite that one poster who felt the need to post whenever Laf made a nice play as some supportive evidence that suggesting he go to the AHL was dumb.
 
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They did make Byfield play in the AHL a lot. Laferriere is the only prospect who wasnt subject to that treatment. It was great for him. I dont get why he got that treatment and no other player did because he wasnt really any better than the others and he never even had to go through the 4th line small minutes role either. Maybe because he dropped the gloves?
And I like the player and how he played in the playoffs.
I imagine Laf got different treatment simply because when asked to do x,y,z he did it. I assume therefore that Arty and Fagemo did not. Given we don’t know what X, y, z was I have no idea if the expectations on Fagemo and Arty were reasonable but either way Laf did it (or at least did it better) and they didn’t. Laf followed the correct process.

Now the debate about giving Fagemo and Arty time and games over Grundstrom and PLD is a different one. However I think the above is why one prospect was favoured over the others.
 

Raccoon Jesus

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I imagine Laf got different treatment simply because when asked to do x,y,z he did it. I assume therefore that Arty and Fagemo did not. Given we don’t know what X, y, z was I have no idea if the expectations on Fagemo and Arty were reasonable but either way Laf did it (or at least did it better) and they didn’t. Laf followed the correct process.

Now the debate about giving Fagemo and Arty time and games over Grundstrom and PLD is a different one. However I think the above is why one prospect was favoured over the others.

Seems like Occam's Razor really especially since Laf plays a relatively simple game but it would just be fuel for what a few of us have been saying for years...this org is excellent when developing checkers, bottom lines, JAGs, but terrible with blue chip talent.

Now in retrospect not having kids in with Grundstrom, Arvy, PLD, et. al. now gone is similar to not getting Clarke/Spence time because of Walker...
 

Schmooley

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I imagine Laf got different treatment simply because when asked to do x,y,z he did it. I assume therefore that Arty and Fagemo did not. Given we don’t know what X, y, z was I have no idea if the expectations on Fagemo and Arty were reasonable but either way Laf did it (or at least did it better) and they didn’t. Laf followed the correct process.

Now the debate about giving Fagemo and Arty time and games over Grundstrom and PLD is a different one. However I think the above is why one prospect was favoured over the others.
I was not really talking about Fagemo or Arty. Thomas got on the board in the little ice time he got and even got time on the pk and looked good. There was nothing he could do that would allow him to stick even though he looked better than a lot of players. Turcottes performance vs Nashville was better than any prospect it neary bought Maclellan more time but not himself much.
I was mostly talking about these two as they played well just like Laferriere but didnt get the same treatment. I dont think Fagemo got any games? And Arty did not play well. So these two are in a different conversation.
 

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