Prospect Info: LAK Draft (2nd, 2020) C Quinton Byfield - Sudbury Wolves, OHL

[crassbonanza]

He is exciting as f*** and a high ceiling. I don't know what kind of groveling will satisfy you at this point and really not sure what you're asking everyone here to do--his skill and endlessly high ceiling has been acknowledged. This has turned into a 'please like my guy' fest.

I am not asking for any groveling, you compared him to Tanner Pearson and I thought that was a poor comparison.

If you think I'm that biased, then don't @ me.

I am not saying you are biased, that comment was more of a statement that this debate is going to carry over for a long time because it will. No need to get so aggressive.

 

[staveNsteel]

I think overall the most obvious element about Stutzle was that he had a terrific puck handling abilities and agility. Things we see from Patrick Kane, Panarin, and even Kaprizov. I think people are completely looking over the fact that the Byfield archetype is much more rare than the Stutzle archetype for a REASON. I don't see how people struggle to get that through their heads. There's a reason why Stutzle was ready for the NHL and Byfield wasn't. No one again is saying that Byfield WONT turn out to be a real good player, what people are saying is that Stutzle was already showing that he is close to being a really good NHL player by the archetype he fell under.

People have such a boner for Byfield for unwarranted reasons other than they hope he is going to get better, and people are annoyed that Stutzle is showing to be the better player at the moment. The Pro-Stutzle side saw a guy who was likely going to be a great player and the Pro-Byfield side is HOPING that Byfields game translate well into the NHL because "OMG KOPITAR V2" while forgetting to mention that Kopitar himself is a rare archetype. and if you think "OMG OF COURSE IT WILL THESE PEOPLE GET PAID TO SCOUT OMFGHFUHSHFD". DL drafted Hickey. Some of you guys give them way too much credit. Blake hired Willie D after Stevens. Don't forget the fact that these are humans who get paid to do a job that they can end up sucking in and get fired from often.

Let Byfield prove himself to be a good player and worth choosing over Stutzle from. Until he does, get used to the fact that Stutzle is the better player currently. You don't always have to be such homers with the pinkest of glasses. I wanted Stutzle much more than Byfield before the draft, but again, if Byfield was tearing it up, I'd be more than happy to not only eat my hat, but everyone elses. No one wants to see Byfield fail to prove a point. I want Byfield to be much more successful than Stutzle because he's a king. Do I think it happens? Look above.

BTW I can't believe this point has to be made, but do you guys seriously keep bringing up Stutzles production on the Sens and overlook the likelihood how much more productive he'd be on the Kings right now? The Sens are a terrible team.

There's a difference between better player and more NHL ready player. Stuetzle spent last year learning from men in Germany and was given all the time he wanted on the ice at the WJC. He is definitely ahead of Byfield in terms of "I'm an 18yr old high pick hoping to play in the NHL."

You're currently comparing apples to, well different types of apples hah

Stuetzle is playing in the NHL, top 6 minutes on the W, given good opportunity, and doing very well with it against men.

Byfield is currently playing in the AHL, top 6 minutes at C, given good opportunity, and doing well with it against men.

Stuetzle has a year of playing against men in his pocket, and that will help him in terms of on ice and locker room confidence.

Byfield is being gifted a great opportunity right now, playing in the AHL when he should be in the O or sheltered mins in the NHL.

I don't see the negative here. I would not call Stuetzle the better player. He is more developed than Byfiled and can be slotted in to the NHL, and look very good. But Byfield is doing the same one level below. Let him learn from playing against men. He's 2 points from leading, what is a bad AHL team. AHL leader has 13pts.. Byfield can easily put up a 3pt game and go from 87 to 21 in AHL points. Awesome for a young 18yr old.

 

[King'sPawn]

I can see that being frustrating when we know that QB is a long term project, but I think it's more a difference of philosophy.

I'm sure it is, but that's the crux of the problem, isn't it?

There's one team which SHOULD consider a redraft. That's Arizona, who has already cut ties with their 4th round pick.

No forward thinking team with a plan should think "****. We messed up." Because a prospect - an asset you're planning for long term - is paying immediate dividends. Not because there's anything wrong with the prospect. Not because we know the Kings got a better prospect. We don't.

But it's too early to have regrets. Especially in a screwed up season like this. I'm not saying the Kings are suffering especially. All of us have faced changes and a sample size in this time span, to evaluate anything under normal circumstances, is not a good idea.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I am not asking for any groveling, you compared him to Tanner Pearson and I thought that was a poor comparison.

I am not saying you are biased, that comment was more of a statement that this debate is going to carry over for a long time because it will. No need to get so aggressive.

But it wasn't a player comparison. My previous posts had that disclaimer; that one didn't because I had mentioned it several times already. It was strictly a production level comparison; like I said, enter a 40-50 point player you like if you prefer. That's his production right now.

It's definitely going to be a long-term thing with the top-3 at the very least and I 100% agree with that, which is why I'm so grumpy people are trying to write off everyone else as regrets 20 games into a circus season.

 

[crassbonanza]

But it wasn't a player comparison. My previous posts had that disclaimer; that one didn't because I had mentioned it several times already. It was strictly a production level comparison; like I said, enter a 40-50 point player you like if you prefer. That's his production right now.

It's definitely going to be a long-term thing with the top-3 at the very least and I 100% agree with that, which is why I'm so grumpy people are trying to write off everyone else as regrets 20 games into a circus season.

It's a discussion board man, people are going to discuss things. Just like people were upset by the Bjornfot pick and just like people were upset about trading POS for an injured winger. People come here to discuss their opinions, even if they are wrong that's what this place is for.

 

[King'sPawn]

It's a discussion board man, people are going to discuss things. Just like people were upset by the Bjornfot pick and just like people were upset about trading POS for an injured winger. People come here to discuss their opinions, even if they are wrong that's what this place is for.

Of course.

But when one side's stance is called inane and being accused of not getting it, then people will get defensive.

Not saying I've been an angel. But I think you're confusing the defensive tone responding to line crossing in discussion with people getting defensive about "being wrong."

I was wrong with how quickly Stutzle would transition to the NHL. And if the Kings took him, and he was putting up the numbers he is in Ottawa, I'd admit "Wow. I was higher on Byfield, but I'm pleasantly surprised and excited about Stutzle."

I admit I may even cross the line and lol at Ottawa.

But when one sits and thinks about it rationally, out of the chair of fandom, one should be able to say it's WAY too early to say a team regrets passing on Stutzle.

 

[Bandit]

This whole "argument" is absurd. Some of you have zero patience and would have traded Joe Thornton after his rookie year. 7 points in 55 games, bust right?

If in 3 years Stutzle is a 100pt player and Byfield is on the 3rd line then sure, flame away, but right now this is all just premature evacuation.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

This whole "argument" is absurd. Some of you have zero patience and would have traded Joe Thornton after his rookie year. 7 points in 55 games, bust right?

If in 3 years Stutzle is a 100pt player and Byfield is on the 3rd line then sure, flame away, but right now this is all just premature evacuation.

I think the Draisaitl comp is a good one for those reasons. Not because they're similar players just being big ass dudes, but they were both seen as highly skilled but pretty raw with a lot to learn. Drai didn't turn into a star for several years, and not into a superstar for several more.

I'll be disappointed if Byfield isn't putting up 50-70 points at around age 20-22 and if Drai holds any comparison it won't be until 23ish when he goes utterly nuclear. But right now? Insane to be jumping over steps knowing what we always knew.

 

[driller1]

Every team needs an identity. Clearly, Blake had a plan and vision in place-- probably some updated version of what won us a pair of Cups. If Byfield tops out as a 60 pt 2C but we win a Cup because Byfield could shut down an opponent's 1C, I won't have any regrets if Strudel is a 80pt 1LW.

If you look at a Top 6 with 6'4" Byfield, 6'3" Vilardi, 6'2" Kaliyev and Kempe, and perhaps a 6'2" Anthanasioiu, you have a couple of pretty skilled (And Huge) Top 6 players. They'll be able to play a certain way whereas perhaps Stutzle won't fit into that playing style. Pretty sure that was the crux of what Yanetti said after the draft. Stutzle is a hell of a player, but he may be a better player on Ottawa than if he were on the Kings.

 

[DrHansReinhardt]

I can see that being frustrating when we know that QB is a long term project, but I think it's more a difference of philosophy.

You don't take a long term project at 2OA. IMO, it's absurd to call QB a long term project.

 

[YP44]

You don't take a long term project at 2OA. IMO, it's absurd to call QB a long term project.

have to define long term. I think the expectation for Byfield should be 2 or 3 years post draft year (so next season or the one after).

Was not a 3rd OA but I think about Gagner drafted 2007. He played right after his draft year and looked really good in the 07-08 season. Oiler fans were so pumped that they got a steal of the draft. Looking back with 20/20 vision JVR (2nd OA), did not make his debut till 09-10 season, but obviously is the better long-term player.

Stuzzle > Gagner but I hope Byfield > JVR too.

 

[bland]

You don't take a long term project at 2OA. IMO, it's absurd to call QB a long term project.

Sure you do, if the longterm payoff is more likely to be greater than that of the short and longterm payoff of the alternative. It is a rare situation for certain.

And yes, Byfield is a project in the sense that while he played well in the OHL he certainly didn't dominate as claimed in this thread. His potential of a huge, imposing, agile productive, smart #1 center is the most valuable commodity in the NHL. You draft him knowing it is going to take a long time before he reaches that projected level.

There are people here who inked Byfield into this years lineup and they were cautioned to dial back their expectations. Its no surprise that the same group of folks are disappointed with his 5 months of development.

 

[Eagle Fang]

And yes, Byfield is a project in the sense that while he played well in the OHL he certainly didn't dominate as claimed in this thread. His potential of a huge, imposing, agile productive, smart #1 center is the most valuable commodity in the NHL. You draft him knowing it is going to take a long time before he reaches that projected level.

He put up a 1.82 ppg, 5th highest in the OHL as a 17 yr old. I dunno, that's closer to being dominant that not to me... But I never watched him play in the OHL so who knows

 

[SlimCharles]

I always wanted Stutzle more in the months leading up to the draft purely on eye-test alone. As the draft got closer and closer, I started to appreciate what Byfield is and what he could potentially provide to the team. So when draft day arrived, I was equally thrilled with either player joining the Kings organization and the fact that we actually got lucky and didn't drop in the draft. I've always liked Stutzle more, I cannot deny that but it doesn't mean I don't love Byfield as a prospect. I was thrilled we had the privilege of drafting either of these amazing young players. As others have stated, it's way too early to say which player is better/who is a bust and what-not. Try to be patient, we won't know this information for at least 3-4 years.

 

[bland]

He put up a 1.82 ppg, 5th highest in the OHL as a 17 yr old. I dunno, that's closer to being dominant that not to me... But I never watched him play in the OHL so who knows

He was known as a flat track bully, piling up points against weaker opposition. This year was supposed to be his breakout in that he was expected to become a force against all opponents.

Scouts have been drooling over his potential, not his D-1 form. All draft picks are futures of course, but of the top 7 or 8 picks, his pre-draft play would have been in the bottom of that tier. If he was 6-1", he is going mid first round, behind Rossi.

 

[HookKing]

You don't take a long term project at 2OA. IMO, it's absurd to call QB a long term project.

Yeah, after the WJC it went from "will he make the Kings this year?" to "it'll take five years". Yes, the Kings can afford to wait but jeez is he raw. A much higher potential for bust that anyone wants to admit.

 

[bland]

Yeah, after the WJC it went from "will he make the Kings this year?" to "it'll take five years". Yes, the Kings can afford to wait but jeez is he raw. A much higher potential for bust that anyone wants to admit.

He is definitely the least "safe" pick of the top 3, maybe top 7 prospects out of the draft. For every superstar big center there is a Primeau, Nedved or Gratton who still make it but don't fulfil their potential.

Most of that will be down to development. Pushing him into the NHL would have been a huge mistake, and the whole Covid thing is a wrinkle nobody could prepare for. Its a shame that the Kings couldn't have their AHL shit together in time for all these, and there are so damn many, kids to arrive.

I am not really concerned about the Reign's record, but the lack of preparation is alarming. I mean, neither Byfield or Kaliyev is supposed to be there yet, but if you subtract those two who are you really adding? They have done a terrible job choosing the vets to shoulder the load, and they have absolutely failed at integrating McLellan's system.

And there is a question nobody has really asked yet: is McLellan's system actually worth integrating? It doesn't have a lot of wiggle room for error and needs to be damn near seamless to be successful, but what group of kids, moving up and down thru various leagues, is ever going to be seamless?

I had some serious problems with this developmental team before the quality kids arrived. No doubt the new coach will need some time, but there is a concerning lack of progress over the weeks.

 

[Herby]

Yeah, after the WJC it went from "will he make the Kings this year?" to "it'll take five years". Yes, the Kings can afford to wait but jeez is he raw. A much higher potential for bust that anyone wants to admit

Another reason the Kings would change the pick. Not saying that I think Byfield is going to bust (I don't), but with every draft pick comes risk of busting or disappointing. That risk has already been removed with Stutzle and it hasn't with Byfield. That is a much bigger deal than I think some people in this thread realize.

 

[HookKing]

Wrong thread

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Not a good night for Cal.

 

[King'sPawn]

He was known as a flat track bully, piling up points against weaker opposition. This year was supposed to be his breakout in that he was expected to become a force against all opponents.

Scouts have been drooling over his potential, not his D-1 form. All draft picks are futures of course, but of the top 7 or 8 picks, his pre-draft play would have been in the bottom of that tier. If he was 6-1", he is going mid first round, behind Rossi.

That's not really true.

There was one team he was pointless against this season: London, which he played once (London had the second-best record in the league).

Conversely, he put up 4 points Sarnia, but he only played them once as well. They were the 4th worst team.

Sudbury was squarely in the middle, being ranked 10th in the OHL.

The rest of the league, he put up 1-3 points/game.

Against better competition, he put up 27 points in 17 games. 1.59 pts/gm.

Against worse competition, he put up 55 points in 28 games. 1.96 pts/gm.

So, sure, the spread favors playing weaker competition, but it's not like he disappeared against tougher teams. And MOST prospects put up more points against weaker teams.

 

[Bandit]

We sure could use a guy capable of piling on points against a shitty team tonight...

 

[Eagle Fang]

That's not really true.

There was one team he was pointless against this season: London, which he played once (London had the second-best record in the league).

Conversely, he put up 4 points Sarnia, but he only played them once as well. They were the 4th worst team.

Sudbury was squarely in the middle, being ranked 10th in the OHL.

The rest of the league, he put up 1-3 points/game.

Against better competition, he put up 27 points in 17 games. 1.59 pts/gm.

Against worse competition, he put up 55 points in 28 games. 1.96 pts/gm.

So, sure, the spread favors playing weaker competition, but it's not like he disappeared against tougher teams. And MOST prospects put up more points against weaker teams.

In fact, I can't recall exactly, but wasn't it Rossi who people were pointing out had one of the highest point differentials against the lower half of the teams vs the upper half? I never saw Byfield in the OHL but I read the posts from people who did. I don't recall that ever being a knock against him.

 

[King'sPawn]

In fact, I can't recall exactly, but wasn't it Rossi who people were pointing out had one of the highest point differentials against the lower half of the teams vs the upper half? I never saw Byfield in the OHL but I read the posts from people who did. I don't recall that ever being a knock against him.

It's possible. Ottawa was one of the most stacked teams (best in the league) So they frequently played against "weaker" competition. Incidentally, Byfield put up an assist in his lone game against them.

Byfield was also paired with Jack Quinn at the WJC, who was an offensive black hole. His overall play in the WJC improved every time they were separated.

 

[Eagle Fang]

It was Rossi. Here's the thread that talks about the stat comparisons. C Marco Rossi - Ottawa 67’s, OHL (2020 Draft)