Prospect Info: LAK Draft (2nd, 2020) C Quinton Byfield - Sudbury Wolves, OHL

[crassbonanza]

I think the biggest issue is that there was a large contingent on this board who went a little overboard in bashing Stutzle in the lead up to the draft. I mean, some were saying that the idea that the Kings could possibly draft TS was some sort of Canadian media conspiracy to get Byfield to the Sens. It had gotten so over the top that I heard our board mentioned other places about how ridiculous some were being. This led to a lot of people not wanting to even mention that they wanted to draft TS because the responses were pretty strong. I think you will see some people who felt that way speak up now that TS has looked really good.

We all know that QB is more of a long term project, so we won't know for years whether it was the right call, but the comparison isn't going away.

 

[Schmooley]

If Byfield can get some of that high intensity killer instinct hell be an absolute monster when he hits 21-22 years old.

 

[Docgonzo]

Can anyone cite any examples of "the same people who gave up on Vilardi" in regards to evaluating Byfield as a player?

I have been posting here religiously forever and I don't remember there being many negative vibes towards Vilardi as a player at all, in fact quite the opposite, feel like most people loved the pick by Blake. I think most people were just hoping he would be able to be healthy enough to show what he could do. I think some people maybe thought that the Kings management should view anything they got from Vilardi as a bonus and not count on him as a cornerstone piece due to his injury uncertainty, and going C with Top 5 picks in back to back years probably says that it exactly what the Kings were thinking with regards to Gabe. Many of the trusted Kings media people seemed to echo the thoughts that his back injury may be career ending.

I think it's an apples to oranges comparison.

Forget who, but Vilardi was called Scott Barney by a few posters constantly.

And this is just a general speculation, not to you, but if Blake was worried or had doubts about his Byfield pick he’d package him up for someone as quick as he could.

 

[Herby]

Forget who, but Vilardi was called Scott Barney by a few posters constantly.

And this is just a general speculation, not to you, but if Blake was worried or had doubts about his Byfield pick he’d package him up for someone as quick as he could.

Not to single you out, but people keep saying this and it's just not correct in anyway, who said Blake had doubts about QB? No one saying that TS would be the Kings and Rangers pick if the draft were held today means that QB or AL are busts or disappointments and should be traded. I'm sure NJ wishes they had taken Elias Petersson or Miro Heiskanen instead of Nico Hirschier, doesn't mean Hirschier is trash or that they want to trade him or think he sucks. People continue to mistake praise for Stutzle as criticism of the other two, and it's not.

If QB is traded this summer it's basically going to be for one guy, and one guy only. And it doesn't mean the Kings had doubts or think he sucks, it means they are getting a star player back.

 

[HookKing]

If there are folks within the organization that would change their pick after a few months, they should be relieved of their duties immediately.

What an inane comment. You always go with the latest information you have. These are young guys -- still growing and developing. Some seem to blossom out of nowhere -- others regress.

 

[bland]

What an inane comment. You always go with the latest information you have. These are young guys -- still growing and developing. Some seem to blossom out of nowhere -- others regress.

Only if you don't have a plan and confidence in those in place to carry it out. Otherwise that is the immature line of thinking that perpetually dooms so many of the rebuilding-for-forever organizations.

The Kings are a longterm fix here, and that requires longterm thinking.

It hasn't really been said yet, but anybody harboring hope that this team is going to compete for a Cup while Kopitar is still around needs to abandon it.

 

[HookKing]

Only if you don't have a plan and confidence in those in place to carry it out. Otherwise that is the immature line of thinking that perpetually dooms so many of the rebuilding-for-forever organizations.

The Kings are a longterm fix here, and that requires longterm thinking.

It hasn't really been said yet, but anybody harboring hope that this team is going to compete for a Cup while Kopitar is still around needs to abandon it.

That's right! Dazzle with bullshit.

 

[Herby]

Only if you don't have a plan and confidence in those in place to carry it out. Otherwise that is the immature line of thinking that perpetually dooms so many of the rebuilding-for-forever organizations.

The Kings are a longterm fix here, and that requires longterm thinking.

It hasn't really been said yet, but anybody harboring hope that this team is going to compete for a Cup while Kopitar is still around needs to abandon it.

That makes zero sense, Kopitar is under contract for another 3 years. They are going to pay him and DD over $20m a year and not even try and go for it while both are in their primes?

They aren't even that far right now.

 

[Herby]

What an inane comment. You always go with the latest information you have. These are young guys -- still growing and developing. Some seem to blossom out of nowhere -- others regress.

The last part is very true and @BigKing said something similar in his post, some blossom out of nowhere (Jonathan Quick, Alec Martinez, Dwight King) and others regress and never live up to it (Thomas Hickey, Colten Teubert, Jonathan Bernier).

Ofcourse you should use the latest information, I am shocked that people place more importance on CHL or DEL performance and evaluations than NHL results, it's 25 games, not 1 or 2. Stutzle's 25 games in the NHL should be a significantly more valuable evaluation of what he is as a player than the multiple years of evaluation teams had of him playing in the DEL or the junior leagues of Germany. And no one is saying the Kings or Rangers should have known that or is criticizing the picks, those are tough leagues to evaluate in comparison to the CHL or NCAA and there were legit question marks about the player largely because of that.

I think had he come over and played major junior and teams had more of a chance to evaluate him in a setting they were comfortable with that he would have been the consensus #1 pick, but he wasn't and Ottawa was able to take advantage, just like the Kings were with AK 15 years earlier.

 

[No Name The Nameless]

Forget who, but Vilardi was called Scott Barney by a few posters constantly.

And this is just a general speculation, not to you, but if Blake was worried or had doubts about his Byfield pick he’d package him up for someone as quick as he could.

I never gave up on Vilardi, however I did say that I'd trade our first rounder and Vilardi for a top 2 pick. This was half way through the season. I never called him Scott Barney but I used Barney as a reason why Id make the trade.

There was a reason Vilardi dropped. It was hard to not be nervous about his back. Hell, I'm still nervous. But hey, we got a top 2 pick and kept Vilardi anyways

 

[King'sPawn]

What an inane comment. You always go with the latest information you have. These are young guys -- still growing and developing. Some seem to blossom out of nowhere -- others regress.

So why have scouting and developmental personnel if all we have to do is judge based off the past 25 NHL games?

I guess that means we shouldn't trade Brown for Stutzle if they were offering him. Brown's outscoring him and is clearly better.

 

[HookKing]

So why have scouting and developmental personnel if all we have to do is judge based off the past 25 NHL games?

I guess that means we shouldn't trade Brown for Stutzle if they were offering him. Brown's outscoring him and is clearly better.

Who said anything about 25 NHL games? Who said anything about 36 year olds? According to your logic, scouts (for the draft) should just close up shop in Feb/March or so since those last few months don't matter. Good grief.

 

[King'sPawn]

Who said anything about 25 NHL games? Who said anything about 36 year olds? According to your logic, scouts (for the draft) should just close up shop in Feb/March or so since those last few months don't matter. Good grief.

No. It's an active process that looks at a body of work of where a player is as well as a developmental plan.

And amateur scouts look at prospects years in advance, and watch these players grow. Of course they watch prospects in February-April. But if the player is amazing for two months recently, that's not going to undo the YEARS they put into evaluation and analysis.

A team that would undo a draft they did based off of the past 25 games in the NHL has no plan and no confidence in the organization's resources.

You say you "always go with the latest information."

So right now Dustin Brown is scoring more than Stutzle. That's the latest information. You wouldn't trade Brown for him since, recently, he's the better player.

Good grief indeed.

It's the same folks who want to trade for Eichel just because he's available and the Kings were on a 6 game win streak. Change the plan just because of recency bias and a small blip of data betraying a much larger body of work.

 

[Eagle Fang]

Who said anything about 25 NHL games? Who said anything about 36 year olds? According to your logic, scouts (for the draft) should just close up shop in Feb/March or so since those last few months don't matter. Good grief.

The point being made in the context of this thread is that it's not fair to say LA should've drafted TS over QB based on 25 games. It could very well be true, but to say that right now is short sighted.

 

[KingsOfCali25]

I think the thing I keep on pondering are the scout discussions.

Seems like there was legit debate about Stutzle and Byfield.

The year before was Turcotte and Zegras.

These are normal of course.

To me the Kings are banking on more than just skill and are sticking to philosophy.

Part of me really wants to see that exciting pure skill injected but I get the formula.

This is what I have been saying for years. The Kings need to add highly skilled guys (Patrick Kane lite). They have been missing out on those guys. The guys that make teams have to know when they step on the ice. It's why I wanted them to pick Stutzle. Someone that can control the play on his own and makes others dangerous with more space. The Kings play such a tight game that teams know what the Kings are gonna do before the Kings actually do. Players like Stutzle, Zegras, Kane, Barzal, McDavid, Kaprizov and a hand full of others make other teams concentrate on them which opens the ice for their teammates which the Kings don't have.

I don't think Byfield is a guy that can do that. He's a great prospect but I don't see him as a guy other teams will have to worry about as much in creating opportunities on his own. He'll be good with teammates that can finish but it will take sometime and fine tuning.

The issue I had at the draft is the Kings needed to take a big swing on a skilled guy like Stutzle but at 2nd overall they couldn't make that kind of move. They could have done it the year before at 5 with Zegras over Turcotte but went with the "safe" pick. This coming offseason/draft they need to take that final swing at one of these highly skilled wingers.

As for Byfield...I don't see him as a 1C in the NHL but he'll be forced to be the 1C. Which will be ok because he'll have Vilardi and JAD backing him up as 2C and 3C.

 

[HookKing]

No. It's an active process that looks at a body of work of where a player is as well as a developmental plan.

And amateur scouts look at prospects years in advance, and watch these players grow. Of course they watch prospects in February-April. But if the player is amazing for two months recently, that's not going to undo the YEARS they put into evaluation and analysis.

A team that would undo a draft they did based off of the past 25 games in the NHL has no plan and no confidence in the organization's resources.

You say you "always go with the latest information."

So right now Dustin Brown is scoring more than Stutzle. That's the latest information. You wouldn't trade Brown for him since, recently, he's the better player.

Good grief indeed.

It's the same folks who want to trade for Eichel just because he's available and the Kings were on a 6 game win streak. Change the plan just because of recency bias and a small blip of data betraying a much larger body of work.

You don't get it dude. We were talking about the draft. Jeez.

 

[HookKing]

The point being made in the context of this thread is that it's not fair to say LA should've drafted TS over QB based on 25 games. It could very well be true, but to say that right now is short sighted.

If the choice was a coin flip then hell yeah you do. Every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[Eagle Fang]

If the choice was a coin flip then hell yeah you do. Every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

This is a rhetorical question of course, but do you think LA management would chose TS if they could re-do the draft at this moment? Posters here (in general) have the luxury of watching highlights or googling hockeydb to check stats. Scouting staffs pour thousands of man hours watching and evaluating players far more in-depth than how many points they scored. Is that body of work thrown out the window after 25 games?

Yanneti said in a post-draft interview something to the effect that they (Blake) wanted Byfield based on the player he could become and how he can impact the entire game more than just points. I'm sure they knew Stutzle is a more offensively dynamic player who will score more points. They opted for a Kopitar-type player vs a Patrick Kane type player.

Who knows if they're right. I just think you can't second guess a call after only 25 games.

 

[King'sPawn]

You don't get it dude. We were talking about the draft. Jeez.

So what about the rest of what I said where 25 games into this season doesn't overwrite years of work watching prospects?

You called bland's remark inane then put forth a ridiculous argument that the most recent data is always the most important.

So is Kaliyev better than Zegras? He has 1 goal in 1 NHL game. Zegras has only 1 assist in 6 games. Same draft year.

Would Anaheim take Bjornfot in a redraft? He's played more NHL games and has more points than Zegras. This IS the most recent data, after all.

 

[HookKing]

This is a rhetorical question of course, but do you think LA management would chose TS if they could re-do the draft at this moment? Posters here (in general) have the luxury of watching highlights or googling hockeydb to check stats. Scouting staffs pour thousands of man hours watching and evaluating players far more in-depth than how many points they scored. Is that body of work thrown out the window after 25 games?

Yanneti said in a post-draft interview something to the effect that they (Blake) wanted Byfield based on the player he could become and how he can impact the entire game more than just points. I'm sure they knew Stutzle is a more offensively dynamic player who will score more points. They opted for a Kopitar-type player vs a Patrick Kane type player.

Who knows if they're right. I just think you can't second guess a call after only 25 games.

I have no idea what the scouting staff would do. All I know is they would be fools if the choice at the draft was a coin flip or fairly close and they didn't switch picks based on what we've seen from both players. That doesn't mean Byfield won't turn out to be great he may vary well turn out fantastic. TS, OTOH is getting there now. No brainer.

 

[HookKing]

So what about the rest of what I said where 25 games into this season doesn't overwrite years of work watching prospects?

You called bland's remark inane then put forth a ridiculous argument that the most recent data is always the most important.

So is Kaliyev better than Zegras? He has 1 goal in 1 NHL game. Zegras has only 1 assist in 6 games. Same draft year.

Would Anaheim take Bjornfot in a redraft? He's played more NHL games and has more points than Zegras. This IS the most recent data, after all.

Months of data, dude. Months. Not one game. Read his post again.

 

[King'sPawn]

Months of data, dude. Months. Not one game. Read his post again.

But it's been 20 months since the 2019 draft! Bjornfot has done more at the NHL level than Zegras. Why doesn't the most recent data argument apply?

Please explain since I apparently don't get it.

 

[All The Kings Men]

.

 

[HookKing]

But it's been 20 months since the 2019 draft! Bjornfot has done more at the NHL level than Zegras. Why doesn't the most recent data argument apply?

Please explain since I apparently don't get it.

Apples to oranges. For starters, Byfield is no where near the NHL. Second, Bjornfot and Zegras were not rated that close to each other (based on potential). Bjornfot has done more? 8 more games. 1 whole point more.

 

[Herby]

This is a rhetorical question of course, but do you think LA management would chose TS if they could re-do the draft at this moment? .

Is this assuming that they could have watched TS play in the NHL? Yes, they 100% would change the pick and anyone saying otherwise is kidding themselves (and this coming from a big QB guy before the draft). And for the 100000th time this is not a knock on QB. They said they heavily debated the pick internally leading up to the draft but ultimately chose Byfield, so it's not like there was some huge organizational consensus. Since then Stutzle has shown at 18/19 that he can make a significant impact in the NHL and has answered basically all the doubts that the Kings and other teams might have had about him.

Ofcourse the Kings don't have hindsight to know this, and there were valid concerns about Stutzle so this isn't a criticism of the player or pick itself. The same is true with Zegras vs. Turcotte the year before.