Prospect Info: LAK Draft (2nd, 2020) C Quinton Byfield - Sudbury Wolves, OHL

[Raccoon Jesus]

Was he asked to play a bottom six / checker role though or did he play his way into a bottom six role? Seriously asking as I don't recall seeing that anywhere. He was certainly given top line duties for Team Red in camp and was moved down as camp progressed which tells me he was initially slotted to be a top six forward. When Dach went down, I think everyone expected Byfield to be a shoe-in for 1st or 2nd line center and that never happened.

He was moved down pretty much as soon as cuts were made and they went from two teams to one.

Prior to that his coach had mentioned him as a standout in a scrimmage he didn't even score in when their team lost to Dach et. al. While team red existed, Byfield was in a prominent role. Then scrimmage #2 happened and everyone freaked the f*** out for some reason (the now famous "When is Byfield going to show up?" 24 hours after heaping praise from his coach and 15 minute features about how awesome he is on TSN), then nothing else happened because Covid.

Then all their centers got cut, haha.

Then McMichael got moved to C and that's all she wrote. Byfield became a 3rd line checker, 10 minutes.

He was 'outplayed' by Dach, that's really it. No one on team red did shit but Byfield, and McMichael/Newhook were better suited to be offensive Cs being older and more experienced.

 

[bland]

The thing is, he got better as the tournament went on. You can't expect a player to push himself if there's a certain degree of discomfort - because working through discomfort IS pushing himself.

You can choose to ignore the fact he was asked to play a different role if you want. But being a third-line forechecker and operating out of his comfort zone was a lot.

I am curious how Byfield would have done centering McMichael and Pelletier, while getting top powerplay time. Byfield had just one fewer point than McMichael, who had all that opportunity.

Canada had a lot of passengers. Byfield was closer to an underachiever, but again, how much are you expecting from your bottom-six forward?

But this is the point that keeps getting glossed over: he had plenty of opportunities with the puck on his stick below the dots every game in areas where offensive players are supposed to be comfortable and with linemates who were far more offensively apt than those he played with on a nightly basis in Sudbury. It is disingenuous to suggest that he would feel out of place in those situations because he was asked to play a 3rd line role - that unit chock full of first rounders "checked" in name only. He won the draws, he had the puck on his stick deep in the offensive zone against largely outmatched opposition and simply didn't impose himself for the vast majority of his shifts. He settled for what was given to him instead of demanding more, and that lack of hunger has been a tag he has been stuck with.

We around here, myself definitely included, openly questioned that as being overly critical or suggested that he received unfair knocks, but you know what, it actually showed to be accurate. Doesn't mean its permanent. Its not a concern that he didn't dominate a short tournament, but it is concerning that he didn't show the kind of hunger needed to be a difference maker when he absolutely had the chance to do so.

Its one of two things to me. Either he is still very, very raw and needs plenty of time to add to his game and more importantly confidence. Or, he is just too tame to demand the best out of himself and stays in a comfort zone that will shrink exponentially with tougher challenges. Only one of those two is worthy of a 2nd overall pick and skipping purer offensive talents, and its the one that needs to be dominating his peers, not trying to match pros.

 

[Eagle Fang]

He was moved down pretty much as soon as cuts were made and they went from two teams to one.

Prior to that his coach had mentioned him as a standout in a scrimmage he didn't even score in when their team lost to Dach et. al. While team red existed, Byfield was in a prominent role. Then scrimmage #2 happened and everyone freaked the f*** out for some reason (the now famous "When is Byfield going to show up?" 24 hours after heaping praise from his coach and 15 minute features about how awesome he is on TSN), then nothing else happened because Covid.

Then all their centers got cut, haha.

Then McMichael got moved to C and that's all she wrote. Byfield became a 3rd line checker, 10 minutes.

He was 'outplayed' by Dach, that's really it. No one on team red did shit but Byfield, and McMichael/Newhook were better suited to be offensive Cs being older and more experienced.

Yes I remember that and thinking it was kinda odd. After Dach went down I think most of the hockey pundits assumed/discussed Byfield taking over that role. It was a bit shocking to see the line-ups the next day with Byfield slotted on the third-line.

And you're absolutely right in that it could very well be McMichael and Newhook would serve the team better in a top six role since Byfield has better 'checker' qualities and is more versatile. Everyone has to play a role and that certainly could be the case since Canada was so stacked. That's a very good point that I never really considered. As a Kings fan, I guess you just want to see 'your guy' in the spot light roles haha.

 

[King'sPawn]

But this is the point that keeps getting glossed over: he had plenty of opportunities with the puck on his stick below the dots every game in areas where offensive players are supposed to be comfortable and with linemates who were far more offensively apt than those he played with on a nightly basis in Sudbury. It is disingenuous to suggest that he would feel out of place in those situations because he was asked to play a 3rd line role - that unit chock full of first rounders "checked" in name only. He won the draws, he had the puck on his stick deep in the offensive zone against largely outmatched opposition and simply didn't impose himself for the vast majority of his shifts. He settled for what was given to him instead of demanding more, and that lack of hunger has been a tag he has been stuck with.

We around here, myself definitely included, openly questioned that as being overly critical or suggested that he received unfair knocks, but you know what, it actually showed to be accurate. Doesn't mean its permanent. Its not a concern that he didn't dominate a short tournament, but it is concerning that he didn't show the kind of hunger needed to be a difference maker when he absolutely had the chance to do so.

Its one of two things to me. Either he is still very, very raw and needs plenty of time to add to his game and more importantly confidence. Or, he is just too tame to demand the best out of himself and stays in a comfort zone that will shrink exponentially with tougher challenges. Only one of those two is worthy of a 2nd overall pick and skipping purer offensive talents, and its the one that needs to be dominating his peers, not trying to match pros.

I think the question in your final paragraph can be answered with one question of my own: do you feel Byfield got better as the tournament went on?

If yes, then I think confidence and time is the issue.

If no, then assume he'll get better, and assume it's a personality trait.

Let's not forget, as we talk about Byfield needing to step up his game against tougher competition, he went a point-per-game in the 2019 playoffs as a 16 year-old.

 

[cyclones22]

Not only that, is Byfield's lack of dominating performances have strictly been in International Tournament play. I seem to recall that Byfield put up very good numbers on a mediocre Sudbury team against the best OHL teams when he has been dependent on to carry his team. This has all been broken down before ad nauseam. International play has always been the main criticism not that he couldn't drive the bus against good Junior teams,

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The concern is that the WJCs actually displayed many of the concerns voiced regarding Byfield leading up to the draft.

Nobody should be certain of anything about anybody at that age. However, you judge what you see. And on display was a lack of aggression, a lack of creativity in tight spaces, and an acceptance to let far too many shifts go by without imposing himself offensively when he most definitely had the opportunity.

I find the whole third line, unfamiliar role stuff to be a bunch of nonsense. The criticism isn't that he didn't play THAT role well, he did - the possession and forecheck work was excellent. But you don't draft a guy #2 overall to be a competent pro, you draft him that high to be an impact player at the highest level of the game. THAT is where he came up short - plenty of good possession deep in the offensive zone, plenty of pucks on his stick in dangerous places, and apart from one game, next to no production. The high expected goals stat isn't a positive here, it underlines an inability to produce when expected to do so. He didn't demostrate a high level of ability when he had that chance.

That's why folks were disappointed. We read all summer that he dominated soft opposition, but struggled in bigger games and in the limelight of international tournaments. Then we saw that very issue unveil itself right in front of us.

I also don't find any reason to compare him to any other pro. He is so damn young, he can go in a whole bunch of directions. That's one of the reasons I want him to go back to the OHL as quickly as possible. I don't want him to settle for being a Kopitar clone, he needs to let his offensive game grow and not just find some satisfaction in being responsible enough to make it to the NHL at 18.

He is a kid, not a man, and I for one want him to push himself to see what he can accomplish, to be the best player he could possibly be which includes being a dominant offensive force. That is the kind of player who gets picked 2nd overall.

Not really arguing here because I know we just disagree on some of this and I appreciate that you had these concerns prior to draft.

I would personally respond to that as saying one of the critiques before the draft was his defensive play and it looks like he just shut that down in spades.

I would also disagree that he struggles in 'bigger games' given his playoffs beastmode in Sudbury, even as a 16 yo. For some reason, it's pretty much strictly the WJC that's been tough on his raw production (people bring up the Hlinka but if you look at the highlights for that tourney you see a kid who created insane amounts of opportunities for teammates who couldn't finish), and while it's worth asking 'why,' I also just feel like it's not worth putting that much stock in it. It's any number of reasons, really. I don't think you can discount role. But it could also be confidence. It could be aggression, the 'take the bull by the horns' mentality, I certainly felt he was too deferential, trying too hard to just be a 'good teammate' in Team Canada mode. Maybe he's just slow to adjust--he did get better as the tourney went on, maybe he wasn't prepared for the pace of play and needs time. We at least agree he's got lots to learn--that's why this snapshot in his development doesn't bother me as much as it does many others, especially given historically there are players like MacKinnon in the same boat, and players like Schroeder who were awesome and are bagging groceries now.

In any case, we certainly agree he's got racetrack in front of him. And I'm certain the Kings development team has WJC footage to review with him, contrasted with his Sudbury performances.

 

[bland]

I want him to be the absolute best player he can be. I do think the onus is always on the player to show that drive from within, to overcome challenges and prove to himself and his coaching staff that he can surpass expectations. For some guys that is simply making it into the league. For some its the difference between the softer and harder points to move from supporting role to a driver.

In Byfield's case, I think it's completely appropriate to expect more than other players. He has the ability and opportunity to be a very, very special player. The Kings thought so highly of his potential that they passed on other potentially special players with a higher likliehood of reaching their ceilings to take the good chance that this player rises well above them.

For those reasons, he faces more intense scrutiny than other prospects. Everything about Byfield, potential, expectations, the whole bit is going to be at the highest level imaginable for a kid. And if this is starting to sound a bit familiar about my line of thinking on Kopitar over the years, yeah, its pretty much the same thing. Those with the most to give are held to the highest standards.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I want him to be the absolute best player he can be. I do think the onus is always on the player to show that drive from within, to overcome challenges and prove to himself and his coaching staff that he can surpass expectations. For some guys that is simply making it into the league. For some its the difference between the softer and harder points to move from supporting role to a driver.

In Byfield's case, I think it's completely appropriate to expect more than other players. He has the ability and opportunity to be a very, very special player. The Kings thought so highly of his potential that they passed on other potentially special players with a higher likliehood of reaching their ceilings to take the good chance that this player rises well above them.

For those reasons, he faces more intense scrutiny than other prospects. Everything about Byfield, potential, expectations, the whole bit is going to be at the highest level imaginable for a kid. And if this is starting to sound a bit familiar about my line of thinking on Kopitar over the years, yeah, its pretty much the same thing. Those with the most to give are held to the highest standards.

I noticed a lot of it is total echoes of Kopi's criticism--want to see more assertiveness. Know how good as well as how god damn big you are. Drive it. The thing is, he does that in Sudbury--how do we bring it out elsewhere?

The one thing Byfield has that Kopitar never did is an absolute metric shitton of criticism and haters (not you). Hope he uses it as fuel on top of an internal drive to be better.

coachable is one thing--that's a desire to appease. It's like Miracle, needs a little bit more 'f*** you' in his attitude:

 

[McSauer]

The Rangers probably questioned if they should take Byfield. They probably didnt have a conversation for Stutzle.

Literally not even for a second LOL.

 

[Schmooley]

Literally not even for a second LOL.

Im from there and my family and friends that like the rangers had the conversation. Mostly due to the poor center depth and stacked left wing situation. Glad youre happy with the pick

 

[Lt Dan]

Im from there

I am glad you were able to escape.

Was it by balloon or did you tunnel like Andy Dufresne?

 

[Schmooley]

I am glad you were able to escape.

Was it by balloon or did you tunnel like Andy Dufresne?

Haha i moved from brooklyn when i was a young kid but besides my parents my whole family lives there. I couldnt live there but it can be fun in short visits

 

[Rooks]

Literally not even for a second LOL.

weird flex but ok

 

[bashbros32]

Sens fan here;

Super Tim scored an NHL goal, start the parade, clearly won the entire draft, suck it LA

I was saying a while back in a Byfield thread that Quinton is literally 10 months younger than Lafreniere, and 7 months younger than Stutzle. It's nearly disingenuous to compare there same year, also, if we look at a similarly sized Ontario born center, we can see that tall players seem to take a little longer sometimes to develop.

Joe freaking Thornton had 7 points in 55 games as a rookie, I think Byfield is closer to Thornton who shoots more, than Brian Boyle. Patience is key with him, he's gonna be great!

 

[DoktorJeep]

Did Chicago fans post in threads about Rangers prospects last year every time Kirby Dach was in the news?

 

[kevsh]

Sens fan here;

Super Tim scored an NHL goal, start the parade, clearly won the entire draft, suck it LA

I was saying a while back in a Byfield thread that Quinton is literally 10 months younger than Lafreniere, and 7 months younger than Stutzle. It's nearly disingenuous to compare there same year, also, if we look at a similarly sized Ontario born center, we can see that tall players seem to take a little longer sometimes to develop.

Joe freaking Thornton had 7 points in 55 games as a rookie, I think Byfield is closer to Thornton who shoots more, than Brian Boyle. Patience is key with him, he's gonna be great!

I was watching the game, that was a beauty. And yes, as a Kings fan I was left wondering what could have been ... (kidding, sort of - I was one of the minority who hoped against hope the Kings would draft Stutzle)

 

[bashbros32]

Did Chicago fans post in threads about Rangers prospects last year every time Kirby Dach was in the news?

fair point, but how many people do you see defending your teams choice? I literally wanted the Sens to draft Byfield based on his age and size alone. As I said, Byfield is SO much younger than the other 2 that it nearly isn't a fair comparison. I could see Byfield ending up the best player of the draft as soon as the end of 2021, I'm excited to see how all 3 develop in the coming days, weeks, months and years!

 

[King'sPawn]

fair point, but how many people do you see defending your teams choice? I literally wanted the Sens to draft Byfield based on his age and size alone. As I said, Byfield is SO much younger than the other 2 that it nearly isn't a fair comparison. I could see Byfield ending up the best player of the draft as soon as the end of 2021, I'm excited to see how all 3 develop in the coming days, weeks, months and years!

Your feedback is appreciated. It's just frustrating seeing all the knee-jerk reactions 3 days into the first season after the draft

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Since we're quick to make judgements, Jack Hughes, Kaapo Kakko and Alexis Lafreniere are the next Brian Boyle, Lauri Tukonen, and Andy Andreoff? And Tim Stutzle is already a generational player of the likes we've never seen.

 

[Sol]

I was watching the game, that was a beauty. And yes, as a Kings fan I was left wondering what could have been ... (kidding, sort of - I was one of the minority who hoped against hope the Kings would draft Stutzle)

Me too man. Me too. If Stutzle becomes the better player (which I think he will), it's gonna be super irritating. But I'm going to give Byfield a chance. There's a reason why there isn't a lot of Kopitars and Thorntons in this league. There's more flashy wingers, so it's a safer bet to me, especially at #2. I hope Byfield really really really proves us wrong though. We all want him to pan out at the end of the day.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Does anyone know who Ottawa was going to pick if they had the #2 pick?

 

[No Name The Nameless]

Im from there and my family and friends that like the rangers had the conversation. Mostly due to the poor center depth and stacked left wing situation. Glad youre happy with the pick

Not a chance man. If that was a real conversation in NY's war room it was nothing but academic due diligence.
If NY considered drafting for immediate need Byfield wouldn't be the guy.

 

[SmytheKing]

I want him to be the best guy that comes out of this draft, but I feel like it's not gonna happen. Yup. It's way too early to make that projection but it's just my gut.

Byfield is going to be a guy that you see flashes of greatness in and then wonder where it is the rest of the year. He's going to be Petr Nedved but somewhat more frustrating.

Stutzle is the guy Lombardi would have picked for better or for worse. He has that "it" factor that can't be measured or calculated. Save this post if you would like to. I hope I'm wrong. I don't think I will be though. The Kings will have a serviceable center who has a nice long career but they could have had a winger who breaks the game open and always seems to be involved.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I want him to be the best guy that comes out of this draft, but I feel like it's not gonna happen. Yup. It's way too early to make that projection but it's just my gut.

Byfield is going to be a guy that you see flashes of greatness in and then wonder where it is the rest of the year. He's going to be Petr Nedved but somewhat more frustrating.

Stutzle is the guy Lombardi would have picked for better or for worse. He has that "it" factor that can't be measured or calculated. Save this post if you would like to. I hope I'm wrong. I don't think I will be though. The Kings will have a serviceable center who has a nice long career but they could have had a winger who breaks the game open and always seems to be involved.

How do you know who Lombardi would have selected? Did you talk to him? Did you know he’d select Thomas Hickey in 2007 or Derek Forbort in 2010?

 

[SmytheKing]

How do you know who Lombardi would have selected? Did you talk to him? Did you know he’d select Thomas Hickey in 2007 or Derek Forbort in 2010?

It's the same reason he traded a 22 year old coming off a 50 point season for a 27 year old with a broken hand coming off two injury filled seasons where he totaled 13 goals. It's the same reason he traded a flashy ~50 point a year defenseman for a ~30 point centerman and a tough defenseman.

You're welcome to think otherwise and be silly with "did you talk to him??!!?" comments. Between those two he would have picked the German and I have zero doubts about it. That's the type of player he likes and always has. Like I said, feel free to circle back in a few years. I'd be thrilled to be wrong.