behemolari
worst collapse in nhl history
- Dec 1, 2011
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at least with Aho I can see 100 pts season happening
TSN: Laine cleared to return from Player Assistance Program
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at least with Aho I can see 100 pts season happening
Yup, or Barkov etc. Or any other puck dominant two way center who allows Laine to be an offensive winger instead of being the last forward out of defensive zone. He'll do that because he's responsible, but that's not how to get the most out of him.
MoneyManny
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2021
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Your comment isn't that deep bro. No matter what reason they have to get into the program it can't possibly be a positive. Added to that the fact that he's constantly injured, inconsistent, a hard to outplay contract and you have a pretty big unknown variable/bad gamble situation.lol how is it a bad gamble? I don’t think you understand how this works. Before acquiring a player the team talks to the player and his agent. So just because you don’t know why he entered the PAP, the team acquiring him will know. My god how do you not understand…
You could of done without the condescending attitude, it's beneath you.
MoneyManny
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2021
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When the sage points at the moon the fool looks at the finger.
Do you always take analogies at face value or are you the type we have to repeat things a lot to?
behemolari
worst collapse in nhl history
- Dec 1, 2011
- 6,401
- 3,000
I left Barkov out because it wont happen as much I would like it.. Canes have room and they are one elite scorer away for being runner. Laine is not favourite (in anyone books) for that spot, but who else is available, just do it!
Not saying it will 100% work but knowing they have chemistry from past and I believe Laine is upgrade over Teräväinen there is no reason not believe that is good bet.
behemolari
worst collapse in nhl history
- Dec 1, 2011
- 6,401
- 3,000
two years rental is far far away from putting all chips in
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Hobnobs
Pinko
- Nov 29, 2011
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Yeah... He had other "issues" and was healthy scratched and waived. Not remotely the same situation as with Laine.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Last week, the narrative from the Jackets GM was neither the Jackers or other teams could talk to Laine while he was on the assistance program. Waddell said teams have to be comfortable trading for him now because they are not allowed to talk to him.
Fast forward to today... he's off that program now. Wonder how much conversation has happened with his agent? From both Waddell and other teams interested? From what I have read, looks like Waddell is leaving it open for other teams to talk to Laine/Agent to see if there is a fit on their team before they make their trade offers.
Curious to see if this lingers on or a deal happens quickly. None of Zegras, Necas, Laine, McGroarty have been moved yet.
Fast forward to today... he's off that program now. Wonder how much conversation has happened with his agent? From both Waddell and other teams interested? From what I have read, looks like Waddell is leaving it open for other teams to talk to Laine/Agent to see if there is a fit on their team before they make their trade offers.
Curious to see if this lingers on or a deal happens quickly. None of Zegras, Necas, Laine, McGroarty have been moved yet.
One thing for certain, Waddell wants this done before camp....don't think he wants camp to be a $hitshow with a Laine holdout.......that would devalue the kid even more.
How many teams have been calling? 8.7M is a chunk of the cap for sure...
How many teams have been calling? 8.7M is a chunk of the cap for sure...
Xoggz22
Registered User
Maybe I misunderstand your post but Waddell has said from day one that one Laine is out of the PAP, other teams can speak with him. It's prohibited to talk to the player while in the program so I don't think it was narrative from the GM. Just needed to get to a point other GMs and Waddell could have direct access to him. We'll see how quickly something happens. I don't expect a quick answer
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Yes, the post you replied to said, neither the Jackers or other teams could have talked to Laine while he was on the program. We are on the same page there.
The thing I ponder is it's not that typical for GM's to allow other GM's to talk to players. Usually, they agree on a trade principal first and then allow other teams to talk to the player/agent. Looks like Waddell is allowing it and keeping it open. I'm sure that Laine's agent and Waddell is busy with several teams inquiring.
Have you read anything Waddell has actually said?
Laine can't hold out if he wants to get paid, he's under contract.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
Probably the highest offer the Habs will make.... Not sure If Hughes goes this high.
* Flames/Panthers 1st
* One of Kapanen or Barron
* Dvorak if no retention on Laine.
Another angle the Habs can take is we retain 50% on Anderson and take 100% of Laine's contract. We have the cap room to do that in the next 2-3 years. Still offer the package above but the Dvorak is swapped with Anderson at 50%.
Does Laine get moved for futures with no contract coming back? Possible. But I am pretty sure Waddell is open to retaining to get the best return.
* Flames/Panthers 1st
* One of Kapanen or Barron
* Dvorak if no retention on Laine.
Another angle the Habs can take is we retain 50% on Anderson and take 100% of Laine's contract. We have the cap room to do that in the next 2-3 years. Still offer the package above but the Dvorak is swapped with Anderson at 50%.
Does Laine get moved for futures with no contract coming back? Possible. But I am pretty sure Waddell is open to retaining to get the best return.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
I think that that's potentially competitive, but that we'd be looking for different types of players if possible (or more value if we can get it) and so would consider circling back around to it.
Again, this is a tired argument. If you think Laine is a good defensive player and is usually the first guy back and last one to leave the defensive zone you're extremely deluded. If you think he's going to score 110 points when he's never scored more than 70 in his career you're deluded.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
...or you've actually watched him play for the Blue Jackets.
This, on the other hand, legitimately likely is hyperbole.
It's actually the consensus view among Jackets fans.
Laine has a turnover problem that hurts his defense but his D zone commitment is top notch. Hard to believe, I understand, but try to listen to people that know better.
Yes, I've watched him play many times for the Blue Jackets. Not only that, but the data doesn't agree with anyone who thinks he's anything but one of the very worst defensive players in the league.
Based on his assessment of his defensive play, I think he likely meant what he said.
My assessment of him being comparable to Kuzmenko is accurate. He can help your PP, needs to be heavily sheltered at 5 on 5 and doesn't add anything besides his offensive play.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
He's roughly average defensively on a team that, the last couple of years, has been a dumpster fire defensively overall. That tends to depress numbers.
18 game sample size, with multiple injuries and playing a new position..
Yeah what a scrub defensively
The season before...
I mean he's given up 4.8GA/60 at ES in his time in Columbus. That's not roughly average for that team. It's by far the worst on the team for any player. He also has seen extremely sheltered minutes and spent a lot of time with the one ice tilter Columbus has in Jenner. He's actually been significantly worse in Columbus defensively than he was in Winnipeg.
Patrik Laine Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com
Checkout the latest stats of Patrik Laine. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com
www.hockey-reference.com
Just look at those numbers. He's a -2.5GA/60 in his time in Columbus. That's shockingly bad.
JFresh charts aren't in any way valid advanced stat models. Look at the data. That tells the real story. But yes, even in JFresh models which don't account for zone starts and account for special teams (Laine plays PP) he's still bad. What you see in those charts is a player who is below average offensively at 5 on 5, which I would debate as well. He's essentially making hay on the PP. Exactly like Kuzmenko which has been my contention.
The top post is only an 18 game sample size in which he was coming back from a concussion. The season before his defense was more than fine.I mean he's given up 4.8GA/60 at ES in his time in Columbus. That's not roughly average for that team. It's by far the worst on the team for any player. He also has seen extremely sheltered minutes and spent a lot of time with the one ice tilter Columbus has in Jenner. He's actually been significantly worse in Columbus defensively than he was in Winnipeg.
Patrik Laine Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com
Checkout the latest stats of Patrik Laine. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com
Just look at those numbers. He's a -2.5GA/60 in his time in Columbus. That's shockingly bad.
JFresh charts aren't in any way valid advanced stat models. Look at the data. That tells the real story. But yes, even in JFresh models which don't account for zone starts and account for special teams (Laine plays PP) he's still bad.
Habs Halifax
Loyal Habs Fan
If it comes down to it, the Habs don't really have to send a contract back. It depends on what other teams are trying.
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I am pretty sure they are the numbers from his first year with the teams instead of actual weighted averages.I mean he's given up 4.8GA/60 at ES in his time in Columbus. That's not roughly average for that team. It's by far the worst on the team for any player. He also has seen extremely sheltered minutes and spent a lot of time with the one ice tilter Columbus has in Jenner. He's actually been significantly worse in Columbus defensively than he was in Winnipeg.
Patrik Laine Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com
Checkout the latest stats of Patrik Laine. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com
Just look at those numbers. He's a -2.5GA/60 in his time in Columbus. That's shockingly bad.
JFresh charts aren't in any way valid advanced stat models. Look at the data. That tells the real story. But yes, even in JFresh models which don't account for zone starts and account for special teams (Laine plays PP) he's still bad. What you see in those charts is a player who is below average offensively at 5 on 5, which I would debate as well. He's essentially making hay on the PP. Exactly like Kuzmenko which has been my contention.
If you look at his 2 seasons > 50gp in Columbus, his on ice 5v5 goal numbers are pretty good:
And he was tried out as a center for a fair share of that sample..
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Since Adams made comments that he's looking for a top 6 forward, has previously thought to have scouted Columbus for several seasons outside of just the Robinson deal... I could see Buffalo thinking hard about this and offering something like Rosen and high draft pick, maybe something like a lottery protected first.
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