Laine blows a goal THROUGH Seider's stick

thebus88

19/20 Columbus Blue Jackets: "It Is What It Is"
Sep 27, 2017
5,443
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Michigan
I'll save my judgment for when they add that high-end free agent instead of losing them.
Where does Gaudreau fit into this, along with the CBJ hitting the cap floor? Severson/Monahan signings? Thanks in advance.

Laine sucks. He was arguably the main culprit that helped ruin the CBJ team and made them literally unwatchable.

Along with Elvis and Jarmo, the guy who brought both guys in and then unbelievably signed them to ridiculous extensions.
 

Michel Beauchamp

Canadiens' fan since 1958
Mar 17, 2008
23,361
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Laval, Qc
I led with it, you corrected and concentrated on it. I’ve since clarified my meaning—a meaning you’ve claimed you understand.

In the post you quoted I have asked you to explain why you think a 14.6% difference in percentage constitutes the qualifier “easily”. No answer.

Would you care to answer any of my other questions? Ffs, guy, I’m attempting an actual debate with you. So debate.
I save my debates for things that are debatable.

14.6% being easily a big difference isn't debatable.
 

Albatros

Registered User
Aug 19, 2017
14,049
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Ostsee
Where does Gaudreau fit into this, along with the CBJ hitting the cap floor? Severson/Monahan signings? Thanks in advance.

Laine sucks. He was arguably the main culprit that helped ruin the CBJ team and made them literally unwatchable.

Along with Elvis and Jarmo, the guy who brought both guys in and then unbelievably signed them to ridiculous extensions.
Optimism isn't a bad thing to have, maybe now without Laine or Kekäläinen poisoning the well they'll make big free agent signings next summer and spend close to the cap going forward as their prospects keep entering their prime. Maybe.
 

crowi

Registered Loser
May 11, 2012
8,598
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Laine with dumbass answers to media. He should shut the hell up and enjoy all that money CBJ (and Jets) gave him. Be appreciative instead of a dickhead.
 
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Mulletman

Registered User
Feb 23, 2013
4,137
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Laine with dumbass answers to media. He should shut the hell up and enjoy all that money CBJ (and Jets) gave him. Be appreciative instead of a dickhead.
I've said it many times, Laine is just like Hulk Hogan. People enjoy the bodyslam, big boot and legdrop (wristshot, slapshot and powerplay) But when he pulls the "that doesn't work for me brother!" (speaks his mind) everybody freaks out...
 

Planetov

Registered User
Nov 18, 2019
204
396
I save my debates for things that are debatable.

14.6% being easily a big difference isn't debatable.
Ah, okay. So, now’s that we’ve establish an ironclad truth, can you answer a question regarding said ironclad truth? At what point does a percentage change in percentage switch from “more” to “easily more”:

1%
2%
3%
4%
5%
6%
7%
8%
9%
10%
11%
12%
13%
14%
14.5%
14.6154% (maybe Laine just barely hit the threshold)

Feel free to choose a number in between that I didn’t list (e.g. 11.4%, 7.8%), or even less than 1%. For all I know you consider 0.1% to be “easily.”

And BTW, you are conflating percentage change in percentage with accuracy—a stance you’ve taken based on my improper diction, of all things.
 

BullLund

Registered User
Dec 28, 2017
1,174
1,202
I've said it many times, Laine is just like Hulk Hogan. People enjoy the bodyslam, big boot and legdrop (wristshot, slapshot and powerplay) But when he pulls the "that doesn't work for me brother!" (speaks his mind) everybody freaks out...

He's got Hulk Hogan's hairline too. Should just grow the mustache and start calling everybody "brother".

Instead of toning himself down, might as well go all-in.
 

hossua34

Mutt
Apr 7, 2003
2,856
286
Irvine, CA
I've said it many times, Laine is just like Hulk Hogan. People enjoy the bodyslam, big boot and legdrop (wristshot, slapshot and powerplay) But when he pulls the "that doesn't work for me brother!" (speaks his mind) everybody freaks out...
The juxtaposition of this post and your user name is just 👌
 

Planetov

Registered User
Nov 18, 2019
204
396
Incomprehensible word salad...
I knew you’d avoid answering the question. Once again:

So, now’s that we’ve establish an ironclad truth, can you answer a question regarding said ironclad truth? At what point does a percentage change in percentage switch from “more” to “easily more”:

1%
2%
3%
4%
5%
6%
7%
8%
9%
10%
11%
12%
13%
14%
14.5%
14.6154% (maybe Laine just barely hit the threshold)

Feel free to choose a number in between that I didn’t list (e.g. 11.4%, 7.8%), or even less than 1%. For all I know you consider 0.1% to be “easily.”
 

ijuka

Registered User
May 14, 2016
23,405
16,785
I knew you’d avoid answering the question. Once again:

So, now’s that we’ve establish an ironclad truth, can you answer a question regarding said ironclad truth? At what point does a percentage change in percentage switch from “more” to “easily more”:

1%
2%
3%
4%
5%
6%
7%
8%
9%
10%
11%
12%
13%
14%
14.5%
14.6154% (maybe Laine just barely hit the threshold)

Feel free to choose a number in between that I didn’t list (e.g. 11.4%, 7.8%), or even less than 1%. For all I know you consider 0.1% to be “easily.”
Btw percentages don't linearly increase like that unless the one we're comparing to remains static(the increase is linear if, say, the total amount of shots in all cases was 100, but if the total amount between each player is different, then percentages don't increase linearly like this). That's because variance is dependent upon the total number of shots so all the percentages are incomparable between one another unless you specifically convert them all so that they assume the same number of shots, and adjust for variance.

In other words, they're not directly comparable.

As for the question, you could, for instance, use 1 standard deviation in relation to the entire sample population as "easily more" but these terms are abstract and subjective and it depends on the dispersion of the dataset.

So you could compare 2 percentages(57/243=23.457%, and 43/178=24.1573%) like:

57/243 = exp^(ln(57/243) = exp^(ln(57)-ln(243)) = exp^(4.043-5.493) = exp^(-1.45) and:
43/178 = exp^(ln(43/178) = exp^(ln(43)-ln(178)) = exp^(3.761-5.182) = exp^(-1.421)

so you could compare them exp^(-1.45 - (-1.421)) = exp^(-1.45+1.421) = exp^(-0.029) = 0.9714, and exp^(0.029) = 1.0294

so those are the direct comparison factors(A 0.9714 times as good as B, or B 1.0294 times as good as A), or you could compare them related to /100 percentages first finding the combined /100 percentage:

(57+43)/(243+178) = x/100
100/421 = x/100
100/421*100 = x
100000/421 = x
23.753 = x

and then:
exp^(ln(23.753)-ln(100)) = exp^(3.1677-4.605) = exp^(-1.4373)
and then: exp^(-1.4373-(-1.45)) = exp^(0.0127) and exp^(-1.4373-(-1.421)) = exp^(-0.0163)
and exp^(0.0127) = 1.01278 and exp^(-0.0163) = 0.9838 for how they related to the version converted to 100 samples.


And what you notice is that 0.0127 and -0.0163 are a different distance away from the point of comparison, which was the converted /100 percentage of their combination. You'll notice that with a lower number of samples, the dispersion(absolute value of the exponentiated number) is greater. This makes sense logically, too, and also does its part to explain the phenomenon of "regression towards the mean." This is because if you have a greater number of shots on goal, then your own participation the total sample population of shots on goal explains more of the league's average shots on goal average.


In other words, this proves that percentages cannot be compared to one another by default. Direct comparisons can only be done if the percentages came from the same number of samples, aka, if the players had the same number of shots on goal. Otherwise, they must all be converted into a format that assumes the same number of shots, such as 100 in my example. And you can use the methodology I used for every sample within the population you're comparing to.

This basically is a manifestation of the principle that with more samples, you can be more confident in the accumulated value—if a player has taken 5000 shots on goal, you can be more confident in the player's shooting% reflecting their true shooting% than if the player had taken 500 shots on goal; assuming the generator(player taking the shots) itself doesn't change along the way.

And then, when you have these numbers, you can also perform outlier detection to predict which players are most likely to regress towards the mean and which players truly deserve their high shooting%, etc.
 
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Bender Duster

Registered User
Sep 16, 2024
407
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Winnipeg
1735232752140.gif
 

Planetov

Registered User
Nov 18, 2019
204
396
Btw percentages don't linearly increase like that unless the one we're comparing to remains static(the increase is linear if, say, the total amount of shots in all cases was 100, but if the total amount between each player is different, then percentages don't increase linearly like this). That's because variance is dependent upon the total number of shots so all the percentages are incomparable between one another unless you specifically convert them all so that they assume the same number of shots, and adjust for variance.

In other words, they're not directly comparable.

As for the question, you could, for instance, use 1 standard deviation in relation to the entire sample population as "easily more" but these terms are abstract and subjective and it depends on the dispersion of the dataset.

So you could compare 2 percentages(57/243=23.457%, and 43/178=24.1573%) like:

57/243 = exp^(ln(57/243) = exp^(ln(57)-ln(243)) = exp^(4.043-5.493) = exp^(-1.45) and:
43/178 = exp^(ln(43/178) = exp^(ln(43)-ln(178)) = exp^(3.761-5.182) = exp^(-1.421)

so you could compare them exp^(-1.45 - (-1.421)) = exp^(-1.45+1.421) = exp^(-0.029) = 0.9714, and exp^(0.029) = 1.0294

so those are the direct comparison factors(A 0.9714 times as good as B, or B 1.0294 times as good as A), or you could compare them related to /100 percentages first finding the combined /100 percentage:

(57+43)/(243+178) = x/100
100/421 = x/100
100/421*100 = x
100000/421 = x
23.753 = x

and then:
exp^(ln(23.753)-ln(100)) = exp^(3.1677-4.605) = exp^(-1.4373)
and then: exp^(-1.4373-(-1.45)) = exp^(0.0127) and exp^(-1.4373-(-1.421)) = exp^(-0.0163)
and exp^(0.0127) = 1.01278 and exp^(-0.0163) = 0.9838 for how they related to the version converted to 100 samples.


And what you notice is that 0.0127 and -0.0163 are a different distance away from the point of comparison, which was the converted /100 percentage of their combination. You'll notice that with a lower number of samples, the dispersion(absolute value of the exponentiated number) is greater. This makes sense logically, too, and also does its part to explain the phenomenon of "regression towards the mean." This is because if you have a greater number of shots on goal, then your own participation the total sample population of shots on goal explains more of the league's average shots on goal average.


In other words, this proves that percentages cannot be compared to one another by default. Direct comparisons can only be done if the percentages came from the same number of samples, aka, if the players had the same number of shots on goal. Otherwise, they must all be converted into a format that assumes the same number of shots, such as 100 in my example. And you can use the methodology I used for every sample within the population you're comparing to.

This basically is a manifestation of the principle that with more samples, you can be more confident in the accumulated value—if a player has taken 5000 shots on goal, you can be more confident in the player's shooting% reflecting their true shooting% than if the player had taken 500 shots on goal; assuming the generator(player taking the shots) itself doesn't change along the way.

And then, when you have these numbers, you can also perform outlier detection to predict which players are most likely to regress towards the mean and which players truly deserve their high shooting%, etc.
I’ll probably have to read this a few times to fully grasp it, but thanks!
 

Marioesque

Registered User
Oct 7, 2021
2,742
3,454
I watched the whole pre game press session from NHL.com and couple of things to note. The comments about tired of giving up in december and being OK with losing were not there in this clip. I don't know if they just cut it short, but we can't get the context because it's not available. Maybe it was something outside the press part?

2nd thing to note is, Laine is nothing but respective of his former team mates here. He is fed a question about "are you getting more pucks to your wheelhouse here" that he could have easily dogged on some people if he wanted to, but he answered very diplomatically that he was getting the passes in columbus too, hinted at utilization being different which is true.

I'd be really interested in hearing or seeing the questions and actual comments everyone took offense with. Because the tone he has here is totally respectful and "as expected".

 
Last edited:

kylbaz

Winnipeg <3
Nov 14, 2015
5,171
5,504
www.movingtowinnipeg.ca
I'm a Laine fan but he went to Columbus and talked a about how much he loved it there and wanted to be there long term. Then he wanted out. Now he's saying how much he likes it in Montreal. Give it a year or two and we'll see how much fun he's having
 
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Kimota

ROY DU NORD!!!
Nov 4, 2005
40,338
15,737
Les Plaines D'Abraham
Someone to consider about Laine's comment is that he is Finnish and these guys are pretty blunt and frank. They are no politicing about these guys. It's part of their culture.
 

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