Speculation: LA Kings Offseason Thread

[Telos]

Just throwing it out there if anyone else wants to go down memory lane. Since all of our heads have been in the past, I have been watching some old Kings/Gretzky clips for nostalgia's sake from this YouTube channel I found that has been pumping out a lot of old Gretzky/Kings vids that I haven't seen in forever: https://www.youtube.com/@nhlretro/videos

Imagine having this powerplay unit again:
Robitaille-Gretzky-Kurri
Zhitnik-Blake

 

[No Name The Nameless]

Well that's completely false, or you didn't watch him last year....

I watched every game. I watched him be a complete passenger with no will to his game. I watched him pass up every opportunity he had to shoot and when he was forced to shoot I watched him miss the bet by 5 feet. I watched him short arm passes and not keep his stick on the ice. I watched him look scared when the adults pushed him around and I never saw him get excited when the Kings score.

Have you ever seen him lay out on the ice? Have you ever seen him use his ass, shoulders or hips to dominate? No. Have you ever seen him do anything but just shield the puck. He’s Frolov with a worse shot.

He’s a 6’4 My Lil Pony. He has no dog in him. You know who winners are. In sports. In business. In school. They just have it. They’re driven. They will impose themselves. Kobe was a winner. DD is a winner. Byfield is just a guy. It’s okay to be just a guy, but I’m not going to tie my business or a franchise to them.

 

[Herby]

Yeah, but those player reputations aren't shared by the organization that is hell bent on a slow boil plan.

And besides, Eichel really isn't THAT special of a player. He is damn good, but he isn't carrying the load for Vegas - he is allowed to just play his game surrounded by quality players in a well coached system who are all pulling in the same direction.

Eichel wouldn't have moved the needle here, just like Fiala didn't move it last year. The Kings problems aren't a lack of quality players, it the lack of on-ice leadership, a lack of passion, a lack of size and grit along the wings and defense, mediocre goaltending, and piss-poor coaching. Eichel doesn't change ANY of that. The Kings would be the exact same team they were last year, just with Eichel in place of Fiala - a bubble playoff team with no ability to rise up further.

So no, it would not have been a good idea to acquire him. The team has major infrastructure deficiencies that won't be offset by bringing in name players. They need to rid themselves of the Cup aspirations by severing ties with older players, draft and develop more than just two types of player, and invest more time than cap space to establish a new foundation. Nothing will change here until they take a step back.

Your last paragraph is missing the point, the Kings have already committed to playing 11 and 8 until the wheels fall off, there is nothing we can do to change that. So knowing that, and knowing that they were going to acquire someone (and they did), trading for Eichel presented the best chance to win again with 11 and 8 out of anyone who was available, and frankly I don't think it was close. Eichel is just so much better all-around than Fiala.

What do you think the reputations are of QB and Turcotte are? Where does QB go in this years draft if he were magically entered into it. In most of these cases where players are star you can just tell right away, as this organization did with Kopitar and Doughty. We are just so far from seeing anything even remotely close to that. And look., there is nothing wrong with underwhelming or even outright busts . The Hawks had Skille, the Kings had Hickey, Tampa had many. None of those teams ended their rebuilds and attempted to contend before any of the high picks they took proved themselves.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

It feels like

Yeah, but those player reputations aren't shared by the organization that is hell bent on a slow boil plan.

And besides, Eichel really isn't THAT special of a player. He is damn good, but he isn't carrying the load for Vegas - he is allowed to just play his game surrounded by quality players in a well coached system who are all pulling in the same direction.

Eichel wouldn't have moved the needle here, just like Fiala didn't move it last year. The Kings problems aren't a lack of quality players, it the lack of on-ice leadership, a lack of passion, a lack of size and grit along the wings and defense, mediocre goaltending, and piss-poor coaching. Eichel doesn't change ANY of that. The Kings would be the exact same team they were last year, just with Eichel in place of Fiala - a bubble playoff team with no ability to rise up further.

So no, it would not have been a good idea to acquire him. The team has major infrastructure deficiencies that won't be offset by bringing in name players. They need to rid themselves of the Cup aspirations by severing ties with older players, draft and develop more than just two types of player, and invest more time than cap space to establish a new foundation. Nothing will change here until they take a step back.

Bluc cannot afford to step back, they are all in on this mess and will ride it out. 6 years in and no real plan or direction.

Only way this organization gets on track is if they have new management.

 

[King'sPawn]

Your last paragraph is missing the point, the Kings have already committed to playing 11 and 8 until the wheels fall off, there is nothing we can do to change that. So knowing that, and knowing that they were going to acquire someone (and they did), trading for Eichel presented the best chance to win again with 11 and 8 out of anyone who was available, and frankly I don't think it was close. Eichel is just so much better all-around than Fiala.

What do you think the reputations are of QB and Turcotte are? Where does QB go in this years draft if he were magically entered into it. In most of these cases where players are star you can just tell right away, as this organization did with Kopitar and Doughty. We are just so far from seeing anything even remotely close to that. And look., there is nothing wrong with underwhelming or even outright busts . The Hawks had Skille, the Kings had Hickey, Tampa had many. None of those teams ended their rebuilds and attempted to contend before any of the high picks they took proved themselves.

Well, the best chance to win would be trading the next five first round picks, Byfield, Turcotte, Kaliyev, Spence, Clarke, etc to get an all-star team. Doesn't mean it's the right move to do.

Eichel wanted a surgery that had NEVER been done on a hockey player before. Nevermind the immaturity issues which were a valid concern.

If you think the Kings need to rebuild properly, then you don't want to buy a young star, which is why the Fiala trade in particular was bad timing.

 

[Herby]

Well, the best chance to win would be trading the next five first round picks, Byfield, Turcotte, Kaliyev, Spence, Clarke, etc to get an all-star team. Doesn't mean it's the right move to do.

Eichel wanted a surgery that had NEVER been done on a hockey player before. Nevermind the immaturity issues which were a valid concern.

If you think the Kings need to rebuild properly, then you don't want to buy a young star, which is why the Fiala trade in particular was bad timing.

If we had it my way we would be talking about how Bedard, Fantilli, Carlsson, MM or Smith and whether now was the time to take the next step in the rebuild. The reality is they ended the rebuild in the summer of 2021 so now the goal is very clearly to win the cup between 2022 and this coming season (with maybe 1-2 Kopitar 1 year extensions added on). Eichel's injury concerns were baked into the price, if he hadn't been injured there is no way the Kings get him, instead he was available without giving up the best prospect at the time. You have to be willing to take risks in sports, where there is only 1 champion awarded out of 32 teams. Does it blow up in your face sometimes? Sure, but the upside greatly outweighs the downside.

 

[Surf Nutz]

Regarding my poll here:

Who's on the last flight outta town?

I like this site. No idea of Ben's experience but he looked in the ballpark to me. Using some of Ben's Contract Projections, even loosely, as a guide, Blake may need to garner additional cap space. https://hockeycomparables.com/about-the-site/...

forums.hfboards.com

I can't comment on why I am replying here but you can figure it out.

Herby: I agree with you on Lizotte, he needs to go , heart of a champion but too small, especially in the playoffs, and very likely to be injured often given his size and style of play.
Sell high for cap space to resign Korpi and the RFA's.
I would also trade/dump Grundstrom.
Durzi to but Blake will try to avoid that to keep Spence and Clarke in the AHL,, mostly in the AHL early in the season.

I give the spot to: L3: Fiala - Vilardi - Kaliyev at least for a go to start the season.
If Vilardi or Kaliyev flounder next up is Kupari, (starts as L4 C) who I feel is due for a modest breakout ala Byfield last year.
Then in order I would try: JAD, Turcotte, Iafallo (who I really want to keep on L2 after Arvi is traded,
Iafallo - Danault - Moore), Tynan, if he is called up because of injuries.
And lastly Byfield who I really think should further incubate as L1 LW, unless they lose form.

I most certainly think they will keep Roy and extend him long term next summer as they should next summer.
Don't we have like $25 mil coming off the books then as of now?
Not liking your RD suggestion at all, DD, Durzi and Clarke?
Looks much better with Roy at 2 pair RD, especially for playoff position and the playoffs.
Durzi at 3 pair RD, 2nd PP.
Clarke Durzi in AHL pushing each other.
Blake can make moves before the deadline depending on how these guys do.

Dry Island Bartender: Agree Blake goes with the safe moves.
I hope he has the nerve to get rid of Lizotte but Iafallo should stay because Arvi should be traded because he also should not be resigned for the salary he will command and he gets a better return.
Iafallo moves to L2, above listed.
What is interesting is how this whole cap with not GT and RFA's is it forces Blake out of his safety zone because he is going to have to make some moves and give up assets, which he almost always hoards.

 

[Surf Nutz]

Dudes honestly, hockey and the stanley cup playoffs specifically are just so unpredictable your best bet is just making the playoffs and crossing your fingers. As Kings fans we should know that better than most given 2012.

Obviously you need to put together a solid team with at least a couple great players but at the end of the day you also need all the stars to align as well.

You need one of your goalies to get hot. Need a couple unsung heroes to step up and have surprisingly incredible playoff runs. Need your team to gel perfectly and get hot as a group.

We want so desperately for there to be some kind of 'perfect winning formula' and to be able to say "oh yeah this team needs to do X, Y, and Z and THEN they'll be ready for a cup" but in reality.... No one freaking knows lol.

There's teams that look absolutely incredible and look built for the playoffs, all that good stuff.... That then immediately lose in the first round. On the flip side there's typically always at least 1-2 teams no one expected anything from that end up winning or at least going on long runs.

It's a crap shoot. You get in, and you hope for the best.

If you are betting on the winner pre-season you could hedge your bet on solid teams that look to have significant cap on LTIR but likely to be back by the end of the season.
Also if a team has a high amount of salary go on LTIR before the deadline but seem likely to return to return around the end of the season.
Less of a crapshoot with this.
I charge 5% for my strategies..

I also agree that you can't put a cap or figure out Byfields ceiling.
He broke out on an effective L1 even though his statistics were underwhelming.
He is deriving significant benefit from playing with two King all stars and he should remain there to start this season

 

[Surf Nutz]

It feels like

Bluc cannot afford to step back, they are all in on this mess and will ride it out. 6 years in and no real plan or direction.

Only way this organization gets on track is if they have new management.

They picked a coach that has a history of getting a playoff series lead and then losing the series.
First thing I looked at upon hiring..
Shocked Sturm is back with the Reign.
Blake needs to let TMac expire unless he gets the team past round 1 minimum.
Then Blake may be on his last gasp coach, because he may be allowed to expire the season after that, as w well.
They will be allowed to expire but also may be extended.
With Vegas showing them up with a roster including Blake cast offs, the heat is on.
Time to ask, who would you like to take over as coach after 23/24?
And who would you like to take over as GM after 24/25?

Blake is a risk adverse GM and Eichel had significant risk coming off surgery.
Turned out to be a great risk.

 

[King'sPawn]

If we had it my way we would be talking about how Bedard, Fantilli, Carlsson, MM or Smith and whether now was the time to take the next step in the rebuild. The reality is they ended the rebuild in the summer of 2021 so now the goal is very clearly to win the cup between 2022 and this coming season (with maybe 1-2 Kopitar 1 year extensions added on). Eichel's injury concerns were baked into the price, if he hadn't been injured there is no way the Kings get him, instead he was available without giving up the best prospect at the time. You have to be willing to take risks in sports, where there is only 1 champion awarded out of 32 teams. Does it blow up in your face sometimes? Sure, but the upside greatly outweighs the downside.

I understand you need to take risks. But with where the Kings are, it would not have been a smart risk. They have issues they need to fix internally first - and I'm sorry, but I don't want Blake taking anymore of his risks.

He should have sold a longer rebuild to, well, everyone. Including vets who may not buy in.

Like, didn't we literally just have a thread about how Blake is compounding his mistakes by making trades to clean them up to re-sign Gavrikov. Now you want to lament another big mistake he didn't make?

 

[DryIslandBartender]

They picked a coach that has a history of getting a playoff series lead and then losing the series.
First thing I looked at upon hiring..
Shocked Sturm is back with the Reign.
Blake needs to let TMac expire unless he gets the team past round 1 minimum.
Then Blake may be on his last gasp coach, because he may be allowed to expire the season after that, as w well.
They will be allowed to expire but also may be extended.
With Vegas showing them up with a roster including Blake cast offs, the heat is on.
Time to ask, who would you like to take over as coach after 23/24?
And who would you like to take over as GM after 24/25?

Blake is a risk adverse GM and Eichel had significant risk coming off surgery.
Turned out to be a great risk.

If I’m AEG, I’d replicate what happened in 2006. I’d hire Pushor from Tampa and get out of the way. Maybe he’d hire Jeff Halpern as HC. Those guys know what winning takes and looks like.

I don’t have a good feeling about next season, there’s way too many questions and not many answers. Blake is handcuffed to a degree and will have to rely on someone breaking out to save his bacon.

Another thing to consider is none of the AEG teams are currently championship level caliber teams. Galaxy have somehow become irrelevant under Beckerman. They’ve focused on other things, and I suppose the question is, does AEG even care about winning? Uncle Phil is 82-83 years old, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Kings under new ownership within the decade.

 

[Surf Nutz]

If I’m AEG, I’d replicate what happened in 2006. I’d hire Pushor from Tampa and get out of the way. Maybe he’d hire Jeff Halpern as HC. Those guys know what winning takes and looks like.

I don’t have a good feeling about next season, there’s way too many questions and not many answers. Blake is handcuffed to a degree and will have to rely on someone breaking out to save his bacon.

Another thing to consider is none of the AEG teams are currently championship level caliber teams. Galaxy have somehow become irrelevant under Beckerman. They’ve focused on other things, and I suppose the question is, does AEG even care about winning? Uncle Phil is 82-83 years old, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Kings under new ownership within the decade.

Good point, the heat could go all the way up to Beckerman.
Or if Beckerman is worried anyone under him could be in danger.

Wonder if Phil would hand off things to a younger family member?

 

[KingsFan7824]

None of those teams ended their rebuilds and attempted to contend before any of the high picks they took proved themselves.

Well what the Kings did was not a true rebuild. They simply had too many years left with Kopitar and Doughty. And yes, the likelihood of being able to trade them, at that point, not impossible, but quite low. They weren't retaining 50% for 1,000 years. It's possible they could've done something like that, but in no way realistic.

They didn't set out to rebuilld. That was not the plan. What they're doing now, that was the plan. Keep trying to be competitive, no matter how stupid. If they picked the wrong guys with those high picks in that "rebuild" phase, that's one thing, but it wasn't a clear the deck from day 1 idea.

Pooh-pooh the idea all day long, the Kings are dumb, blah, blah, blah, but you have Kopitar and Doughty(and the other two while they were here) once, and they've already won with them before(and they weren't the leaders of those teams, except Quick), so they're going to keep trying with them. Had they not won the Cups, those two are probably already gone. Probably never re-sign. Quick never gets a 10 year deal. They rebuild again once DL failed, and are probably on their 4th subsequent failed try with a 7th different GM, in typical Kings fashion.

 

[chris kontos]

the sunk cost fallacy

LETS go

 

[Statto]

If I hear this parroted one more time…

Byfield just doesn’t show it. No matter the age, you always see something out of young players that make you say, “he just needs time”. Byfield doesn’t need time. He needs a lobotomy.

He’s what still 20 yrs old, has missed serious playing time with illness and injury whilst only being played with suitably skilled line mates since January. I’m not worried yet but he needs to take a big step this year. I still think he can be a 1C.


Sorry, had to find out what happens

Oh, and I’ve seen plenty of flashes and moments that give me encouragement. Is he a lock for 1C? No. However I haven’t written him off yet, not by a long way.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Byfield needs to score more than 5 goals a season before I start considering him an impactful forward.

 

[Statto]

Byfield needs to score more than 5 goals a season before I start considering him an impactful forward.

Agreed.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Byfield needs to score more than 5 goals a season before I start considering him an impactful forward.

He has ways to go to become as productive as Michael Amadio.

Maybe not getting injured in camp or early in the season will work wonders for him. As Yannetti said in his interview, it seemed like he had setbacks at the worst possible time. Then again, that also falls in line with another high draft pick who has wasted years of critical development.

But hey, this isn't anything new for us long timers. We're accustomed to more suffering than success.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

He has ways to go to become as productive as Michael Amadio.

Maybe not getting injured in camp or early in the season will work wonders for him. As Yannetti said in his interview, it seemed like he had setbacks at the worst possible time. Then again, that also files in line with another high draft pick who has wasted years of critical development.

But hey, this isn't anything new for us long timers. We're accustomed to more suffering than success.

Yup. Byfield busting would be par for the course for a Kings prospect.

 

[Schmooley]

Kings should put in extra time getting Helenius ready for the pros quicker. They should also look into Toropchenko from St Louis and Soderblom from Detroit.
Hitch onto the next wave of guys with size and physicality that have offensive upside.
Wilson will cost too much in assets and capspace.

 

[fivehole32]

Kings should put in extra time getting Helenius ready for the pros quicker. They should also look into Toropchenko from St Louis and Soderblom from Detroit.
Hitch onto the next wave of guys with size and physicality that have offensive upside.
Wilson will cost too much in assets and capspace.

Soderblom has some pretty silky hands for a big guy. I only saw him in a hand full of games at the beginning of the season, but the guy could leverage the puck, win board battles, and get to the net.

 

[johnjm22]

The more I think about it, the more I could see it being:

Vilardi +
for
PLD & Helle

With another team brought to retain and make the cap situation work.

Going from Vilardi to PLD is a sideways move for LA, so they need Helle to make it work for them. Jets want young players who can contribute now, so they need someone like Vilardi to make it work for them.

 

[Seattle King]

I am all for trading Vilardi if it nets a great return.
If one is being honest, it is difficult to imagine him ever being a guy who plays more than 50-60 games a year. When placed into that context, his value is less than currently perceived. It makes sense to move him before the injury-prone label is baked in.

 

[bmr]

The more I think about it, the more I could see it being:

Vilardi +
for
PLD & Helle

With another team brought to retain and make the cap situation work.

Going from Vilardi to PLD is a sideways move for LA, so they need Helle to make it work for them. Jets want young players who can contribute now, so they need someone like Vilardi to make it work for them.

I just don't see how PLD and Helle make us a better team. I'd almost rather have Vilardi over PLD. Helle is a great goalie, but how do we make that work under the cap. I just don't see it.

 

[johnjm22]

I just don't see how PLD and Helle make us a better team. I'd almost rather have Vilardi over PLD. Helle is a great goalie, but how do we make that work under the cap. I just don't see it.

Cap wise, it could work if there's retention on Helle, and the Kings send another significant contract the other way like Iafallo.

I wouldn't do it. I'm just pointing out what I think the deal would be if it happens.