Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[Reaper45]

That thread on the main board about players belonging to teams but never playing for the tripped me out. Never realized that this many of the Kings draft picks to never play for them got into NHL games elsewhere.

Mikey Eyssimont
Erik Cernak
Roland McKeown
Jacob Middleton
Valentin Zykov
Hudson Fasching
Dominik Kubalik
Colin Miller
Tomas Hyka
Christopher Gibson
Nicolas Deslauriers
JF Berube
Brandon Kozun
Colten Teubert
Thomas Hickey
George “Bud” Holloway
Matt Zaba
Aaron Rome
David Steckle
Yannick Lehoux
Brian McGrattan
Mathieu Biron
Justin Papineau
Matthew Yeats
Marian Cisar
Steve Valiquette
Shayne Toporowski
Jeff Mitchell
Bob Wren
Kimmo Timmonen
Rem Murray
Kelly Fairchild
Michael Gaul
Erik Andersson
Martin Gelinas
Micah Aivazoff

And that’s only back to 1986. Not a lot to be upset about honestly. I think the picks the Kings traded away to only have the other teams end up selecting future HOF players hurts far worse.

 

[Herby]

And had a #3 overall pick in Scott Niedermayer fall into their lap because of his brother Rob.

Turns out when you have two of the top 25 defensemen of all-time you win.

The Kings plan needs to be to trade everything to NJ for Luke Hughes, and then use him to sign Jack and Quinn.

And plan the parades.

 

[johnjm22]

I know. I was just pointing out that they still had two Top 5 picks leading in to my case of having a lot of first rounders on title teams.

Hell...Colorado also had Jack Johnson as another Top 5 pick and you left off Byram as one of their own Top 5 picks.

It's not a wild take that Cup teams have a lot of talent on them so it makes sense that they would have a lot of 1st round picks. We're getting there with the sheer number of 1st round picks. Added a pretty good one in Danault last year that instantly made the team better. Fiala is another first-round legit guy added.

For the next three seasons tops--since I'm including #11--they should get good contributions from first round picks Kopitar/Doughty/Kempe/Danault/Fiala. Blakes first four 1st rounders look like supporting players at best and his 2017 and '18 2nd rounders are highly questionable too.

There is no realistic Cup contention without Byfield turning into a #1C. If he can at least turn in to a very good 2C and Clarke is a legit #1D, then we could be talking.

There is a post talking about the end of the Byfield era. I get the joke and we aren't close on that yet but the curtain is closing on Vilardi and Turcotte being elite and it is kind to say it is closing. If Jim Fox is saying that they look at Turcotte as an "elite 3rd line C" then expectations have been significantly lowered. Kupari should have a role solely based on skating ability and he has the 1st round pedigree so I think he will be a piece of the future but so much of this rebuild is riding on Byfield and Clarke.

I'm making a different point though.

If cup winning teams are selecting in the top 5, that means they had to go through periods of finishing near the bottom of the league in order to build their rosters.

It was in reference to the debate as to whether or not you need to tank/suck in order to build an SC winner.

Based on what we've seen over the last decade, you probably do. There's exceptions to everything of course.

 

[Herby]

That thread on the main board about players belonging to teams but never playing for the tripped me out. Never realized that this many of the Kings draft picks to never play for them got into NHL games elsewhere.

Mikey Eyssimont
Erik Cernak
Roland McKeown
Jacob Middleton
Valentin Zykov
Hudson Fasching
Dominik Kubalik
Colin Miller
Tomas Hyka
Christopher Gibson
Nicolas Deslauriers
JF Berube
Brandon Kozun
Colten Teubert
Thomas Hickey
George “Bud” Holloway
Matt Zaba
Aaron Rome
David Steckle
Yannick Lehoux
Brian McGrattan
Mathieu Biron
Justin Papineau
Matthew Yeats
Marian Cisar
Steve Valiquette
Shayne Toporowski
Jeff Mitchell
Bob Wren
Kimmo Timmonen
Rem Murray
Kelly Fairchild
Michael Gaul
Erik Andersson
Martin Gelinas
Micah Aivazoff

And that’s only back to 1986. Not a lot to be upset about honestly. I think the picks the Kings traded away to only have the other teams end up selecting future HOF players hurts far worse.

Had no idea Eyssimont saw NHL time. Feels like he never would have sniffed the Kings.

The Oilers should get a charity tax write-off for whatever they gave Tuebert. That was probably a Tambellini save-face for trading for him. He went straight from an NHL ELC as a 1st round pick to the German league. I’m not sure that’s ever happened for a NA born guy. I doubt as long as any of us live we ever see a 1st round pick that bad. I remember seeing him play for the Reign when they were in the ECHL and being completely amazed that he was a 1st round pick 9 months earlier. He was below average in the ECHL.

 

[kilowatt]

Bro I don’t buy this bullshit whatsoever. Kopitar and Doughty were special the second they were drafted and hit the ice. I’m not coming down on you but let’s not lump them with hall of famers who were special immediately. Both played immediately on the Kings and in kopitars first game he took a shit on Pronger and had two goals.

Byfield can’t even fathom caressing kopitars balls.

And the whole thing with Clarke being blackballed for some insidious reasons I don’t buy it either so he doesn’t even have anything close to doughtys hype. And if Clarke was that good there’s no way they can blackball him without there being serious blowback

Byfield if he’s lucky will become a poor man’s Jeff Carter

You don’t have to buy anything, you never do.

But Byfield’s still a 20-year-old long-term project center with a career ATOI of 12:32 and a grand total of 30 minutes of power play time. He was also coming back from a major injury last year. He doesn’t have to be better than or even as good as Kopitar for this team to be successful. And hell, Montreal made the Finals with our 2C as their 1C. We might never have another player as good as Kopitar.

As for Clarke, I believe he would have been on the opening night roster if he hadn’t come down with mono. I think he takes a roster spot this year and is on our second pair by the end of the year. Not sure what more he can do to change your mind.

 

[kilowatt]

Had no idea Eyssimont saw NHL time. Feels like he never would have sniffed the Kings.

The Oilers should get a charity tax write-off for whatever they gave Tuebert. That was probably a Tambellini save-face for trading for him. He went straight from an NHL ELC as a 1st round pick to the German league. I’m not sure that’s ever happened for a NA born guy. I doubt as long as any of us live we ever see a 1st round pick that bad. I remember seeing him play for the Reign when they were in the ECHL and being completely amazed that he was a 1st round pick 9 months earlier. He was below average in the ECHL.

Teubert was a Lombardi override, right? Tyler Myers, Erik Karlsson, and Jake Gardiner were all on the board.

 

[Reaper45]

Had no idea Eyssimont saw NHL time. Feels like he never would have sniffed the Kings.

The Oilers should get a charity tax write-off for whatever they gave Tuebert. That was probably a Tambellini save-face for trading for him. He went straight from an NHL ELC as a 1st round pick to the German league. I’m not sure that’s ever happened for a NA born guy. I doubt as long as any of us live we ever see a 1st round pick that bad. I remember seeing him play for the Reign when they were in the ECHL and being completely amazed that he was a 1st round pick 9 months earlier. He was below average in the ECHL.

Eyssimont got 1 game last season.

 

[Herby]

Teubert was a Lombardi override, right? Tyler Myers, Erik Karlsson, and Jake Gardiner were all on the board.

I guess he was ranked where he was taken, so many here won’t call it a bad pick, but my God was he awful.

He was #1 pick in the bantam draft so he probably peaked at 15 and just never got better but was still on par with his peers at 17. This is a phenomenon that happens and isn’t discussed enough for a lot of prospects, perhaps 2 the Kings took high in 2019.

Out of the NBA, NFL and NHL drafts he has to be one of the least talented players to go in the 1st round in any of those drafts.

 

[Sol]

You don’t have to buy anything, you never do.

But Byfield’s still a 20-year-old long-term project center with a career ATOI of 12:32 and a grand total of 30 minutes of power play time. He was also coming back from a major injury last year. He doesn’t have to be better than or even as good as Kopitar for this team to be successful. And hell, Montreal made the Finals with our 2C as their 1C. We might never have another player as good as Kopitar.

As for Clarke, I believe he would have been on the opening night roster if he hadn’t come down with mono. I think he takes a roster spot this year and is on our second pair by the end of the year. Not sure what more he can do to change your mind.

Don’t name drop Kopitar then and call Byfield a long term project. Because those two things don’t go together. A long term project center is going to max out if he’s lucky Carter-lite. Not Kopitar. A poor man’s jeff Carter if he’s lucky

 

[Herby]

You are both wrong, IMO.

Byfield is not finished or to be written off after his age 19 season, his first in the NHL due to awful development decisions that he had no control over. Let him get to 100 games before really burying him.

On the flipside, the long-term project thing is a bit misleading to what people really meant. I think on draft night the message was that QB was not going to be McDavid, Matthews or Eichel, which is fine, he wasn't. Then people took that to make excuses for what clearly has not been an optimal 2 years by just saying "Long-term project". Define what a long-term project is?

This is a big year for QB, if he can't get to at least a level where he looks good and is contributing some the red flags are going to rightfully start flying. But it's still too soon after only half a season.

And just to add, if Byfield is a 5+ year project (I don't buy that) then it was a terrible pick with the way the league is structured. In a league where guys on ELC's are contributing significantly (including players taken after QB) and where UFA hits so soon you just can't use a high pick on a 5 year project like teams did when UFA was 31 years old. It would be even worse for the Kings, who were trying to have their youth develop while their aging veterans were still hanging around.

You mean to tell me the Kings took QB thinking he wouldn't be a useful player until Kopitar was 37 and Doughty was 35? That makes no sense. This was probably the year the Kings were counting on having a pretty good player, we will see if that comes to pass.

 

[kilowatt]

Don’t name drop Kopitar then and call Byfield a long term project. Because those two things don’t go together. A long term project center is going to max out if he’s lucky Carter-lite. Not Kopitar. A poor man’s jeff Carter if he’s lucky

Why don’t those two things go together? I’m not saying Byfield will ever be as good as Kopitar, but he can still be a 1C in a few years. Is that somehow blasphemy? Carter was also a 1C. If Byfield becomes Carter, we’ll be okay too.

 

[Sol]

Why don’t those two things go together? I’m not saying Byfield will ever be as good as Kopitar, but he can still be a 1C in a few years. Is that somehow blasphemy? Carter was also a 1C. If Byfield becomes Carter, we’ll be okay too.

It’s not crazy to think that Byfield and Clarke still have plenty of time to become the next Kopitar and Doughty. But Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick are all top 100 all time at their positions, so the truth is that the stars really aligned for us. Winning championships is really hard.

I am guessing this is just bad wording because if you’re implying they will be 1c and 1D like Kopitar and Doughty are then I get it what you mean now. It sounds to me that you meant that they will play close to their level when I think that’s extremely unlikely.

You are both wrong, IMO.

Byfield is not finished or to be written off after his age 19 season, his first in the NHL due to awful development decisions that he had no control over. Let him get to 100 games before really burying him.

On the flipside, the long-term project thing is a bit misleading to what people really meant. I think on draft night the message was that QB was not going to be McDavid, Matthews or Eichel, which is fine, he wasn't. Then people took that to make excuses for what clearly has not been an optimal 2 years by just saying "Long-term project". Define what a long-term project is?

This is a big year for QB, if he can't get to at least a level where he looks good and is contributing some the red flags are going to rightfully start flying. But it's still too soon after only half a season.

And just to add, if Byfield is a 5+ year project (I don't buy that) then it was a terrible pick with the way the league is structured. In a league where guys on ELC's are contributing significantly (including players taken after QB) and where UFA hits so soon you just can't use a high pick on a 5 year project like teams did when UFA was 31 years old. It would be even worse for the Kings, who were trying to have their youth develop while their aging veterans were still hanging around.

You mean to tell me the Kings took QB thinking he wouldn't be a useful player until Kopitar was 37 and Doughty was 35? That makes no sense. This was probably the year the Kings were counting on having a pretty good player, we will see if that comes to pass.

I’m not saying he’s to be written off as a player.

I am just saying bad development or not, Byfield for sure will be lucky to top out as a poor man’s Jeff Carter. Players his age and draft position show signs of super-stardom early. Byfield has shown 2 really good plays all season. That’s not good enough.

I think if you’re going to say he needs time and he’s a project at least you can acknowledge at the same time the player is not a world class player to be even be making that comment.

Players of high caliber don’t need as much contingencies that people lend Byfield here. They show it regardless. Byfield has not.

 

[funky]

You are both wrong, IMO.

Byfield is not finished or to be written off after his age 19 season, his first in the NHL due to awful development decisions that he had no control over. Let him get to 100 games before really burying him.

On the flipside, the long-term project thing is a bit misleading to what people really meant. I think on draft night the message was that QB was not going to be McDavid, Matthews or Eichel, which is fine, he wasn't. Then people took that to make excuses for what clearly has not been an optimal 2 years by just saying "Long-term project". Define what a long-term project is?

This is a big year for QB, if he can't get to at least a level where he looks good and is contributing some the red flags are going to rightfully start flying. But it's still too soon after only half a season.

And just to add, if Byfield is a 5+ year project (I don't buy that) then it was a terrible pick with the way the league is structured. In a league where guys on ELC's are contributing significantly (including players taken after QB) and where UFA hits so soon you just can't use a high pick on a 5 year project like teams did when UFA was 31 years old. It would be even worse for the Kings, who were trying to have their youth develop while their aging veterans were still hanging around.

You mean to tell me the Kings took QB thinking he wouldn't be a useful player until Kopitar was 37 and Doughty was 35? That makes no sense. This was probably the year the Kings were counting on having a pretty good player, we will see if that comes to pass.

I agree. Not a long term as in 5 year but I could see him needing this year to get a full season of NHL play and learning to adapt and overcome the speed of play and then really start to break out the year after.

I also think he’ll be more like Jeff Carter send Kopitar. Carter took a while to learn the defensive end of the game.


I just hope LA allows the kids to sacrifice a bit of defense to augment their offense of game as they learn

 

[Herby]

I am guessing this is just bad wording because if you’re implying they will be 1c and 1D like Kopitar and Doughty are then I get it what you mean now. It sounds to me that you meant that they will play close to their level when I think that’s extremely unlikely.


I’m not saying he’s to be written off as a player.

I am just saying bad development or not, Byfield for sure will be lucky to top out as a poor man’s Jeff Carter. Players his age and draft position show signs of super-stardom early. Byfield has shown 2 really good plays all season. That’s not good enough.

I think if you’re going to say he needs time and he’s a project at least you can acknowledge at the same time the player is not a world class player to be even be making that comment.

Players of high caliber don’t need as much contingencies that people lend Byfield here. They show it regardless. Byfield has not.

Carter and Kopitar are way different things though, Kopitar was a world class 1C, one of the best two-way players in NHL history. Carter was a 2C or 1RW who was very good but never a world class player. I don't think it would be "lucky" if he turns into Jeff Carter, I think that is a bad take, he has the tools to be as good or even better (although the lost year at age 18 really sucks).

Now are you happy with Jeff Carter out of a #2 pick? I mean, probably not, I think you can be a playoff team with Carter as a 1C, a Stanley Cup winner? Not unless you have a prime Richards type as the 2C, which is the St. Louis model. The Kings will probably need Byfield to at minimum be a Carter caliber and follow that up with either finding a better 1C or a championship caliber 2C picking from 18-26 the next 3-4 years, that is not an impossibility but is also not an easy task. That is where the whiffs in 17 and 19 again hurt the long-term outlook more than people realize, IMO. 1C's and high end 2C's just very rarely hit the open market, either via trade or UFA.

 

[kilowatt]

I am guessing this is just bad wording because if you’re implying they will be 1c and 1D like Kopitar and Doughty are then I get it what you mean now. It sounds to me that you meant that they will play close to their level when I think that’s extremely unlikely.

I think we can chalk that up to miscommunication then, yeah. As I mentioned, all three of Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick are top 100 all time at their position (maybe even higher when it’s all said and done). It’s pretty unlikely that any of our players reach those levels again, and the luck it took for three guys to peak at the same time is pretty wild. But there are cup winners led by 1C’s, 1D’s, or 1G’s who aren’t as good as Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick. I think you need at least one though, so we better hope one of Byfield or Clarke (or maybe someone else that we aren’t thinking of!) turns into a star in this league.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I guess he was ranked where he was taken, so many here won’t call it a bad pick, but my God was he awful.

He was #1 pick in the bantam draft so he probably peaked at 15 and just never got better but was still on par with his peers at 17. This is a phenomenon that happens and isn’t discussed enough for a lot of prospects, perhaps 2 the Kings took high in 2019.

Out of the NBA, NFL and NHL drafts he has to be one of the least talented players to go in the 1st round in any of those drafts.

Oh it's absolutely a bad pick especially with that draft, and in hindsight, remember how many big stay at home dmen were drafted early in the first all decade? Those were all wasted picks. I can't think of one that panned out. I get the idea so the pick makes sense but its' like no one recognized the value issue with those players. Luke Schenn, McIlrath, Gormley, Ellerby....so so many.

What's worse, Teubert or Gudbrandson at 3?

 

[Sol]

Carter and Kopitar are way different things though, Kopitar was a world class 1C, one of the best two-way players in NHL history. Carter was a 2C or 1RW who was very good but never a world class player. I don't think it would be "lucky" if he turns into Jeff Carter, I think that is a bad take, he has the tools to be as good or even better (although the lost year at age 18 really sucks).

Now are you happy with Jeff Carter out of a #2 pick? I mean, probably not, I think you can be a playoff team with Carter as a 1C, a Stanley Cup winner? Not unless you have a prime Richards type as the 2C, which is the St. Louis model. The Kings will probably need Byfield to at minimum be a Carter caliber and follow that up with either finding a better 1C or a championship caliber 2C picking from 18-26 the next 3-4 years, that is not an impossibility but is also not an easy task. That is where the whiffs in 17 and 19 again hurt the long-term outlook more than people realize, IMO. 1C's and high end 2C's just very rarely hit the open market, either via trade or UFA.

I know they’re completely different players. I am responding to the case people are making that Byfield will somehow blossom into a player like Kopitar. Personally I would be happy if Byfield becomes reaches Carters level because I don’t have high hopes in him as a player. On an organizational level we need someone better than Carter, but from what I’ve seen from Byfield so far I pray that he can at least be near Carters level so it doesn’t hurt as bad as it could. I see on these boards what I Saw from rangers fans on their boards in regards to KK. They thought he just needed time until they realized that player they saw is actually the player they will have. KK is considered a bad player for his draft position. What is to say Byfield isn’t ?

Also I don’t see how he has the tools to be better than Carter? Maybe passing ? But he is essentially Carter’a archetype. Scouts pretty much said his stand out abilities are straight line speed and a really good shot. Only behind Lafreniere and Drysdale from his draft class. He’s a lot more carters mold than Kopitars so it doesn’t make sense to compare him to Kopitar. My issue with Byfield is that he hasn’t shown to be a special player.

I am very confident with my analysis of players since I am usually right. Most people were cheering for the extension of Petersen when I said that he hasn’t shown anything to deserve it. So I’m willing to bet 50 bucks that Byfield doesn’t crack 35 points. If I’m wrong I’ll gladly pay that up to anyone who wants to take that. I just don’t see anything in his game where I am like “yeah he’s showing signs all he needs is time”

 

[Herby]

Oh it's absolutely a bad pick especially with that draft, and in hindsight, remember how many big stay at home dmen were drafted early in the first all decade? Those were all wasted picks. I can't think of one that panned out. I get the idea so the pick makes sense but its' like no one recognized the value issue with those players. Luke Schenn, McIlrath, Gormley, Ellerby....so so many.

What's worse, Teubert or Gudbrandson at 3?

Very good question. That is close. I like it, makes me think a bit.

Gudbrandson will probably end up playing close to 1000 games. But man, to take a player like that at #3 is just so awful. But in hindsight that was a pretty crappy draft with the next d-man being another laughable one in McIlrath.

Teubert never should have played a game in the NHL, from the #13 spot. And considering that the next defenseman taken is arguably the best defenseman of the 2010 decade I think you have to give the nod to Teubert even if a #13 is waaaaay less valuable than a 3.

I know they’re completely different players. I am responding to the case people are making that Byfield will somehow blossom into a player like Kopitar. Personally I would be happy if Byfield becomes reaches Carters level because I don’t have high hopes in him as a player. On an organizational level we need someone better than Carter, but from what I’ve seen from Byfield so far I pray that he can at least be near Carters level so it doesn’t hurt as bad as it could. I see on these boards what I Saw from rangers fans on their boards in regards to KK. They thought he just needed time until they realized that player they saw is actually the player they will have. KK is considered a bad player for his draft position. What is to say Byfield isn’t ?

Also I don’t see how he has the tools to be better than Carter? Maybe passing ? But he is essentially Carter’a archetype. Scouts pretty much said his stand out abilities are straight line speed and a really good shot. Only behind Lafreniere and Drysdale from his draft class. He’s a lot more carters mold than Kopitars so it doesn’t make sense to compare him to Kopitar. My issue with Byfield is that he hasn’t shown to be a special player.

I am very confident with my analysis of players since I am usually right. Most people were cheering for the extension of Petersen when I said that he hasn’t shown anything to deserve it. So I’m willing to bet 50 bucks that Byfield doesn’t crack 35 points. If I’m wrong I’ll gladly pay that up to anyone who wants to take that. I just don’t see anything in his game where I am like “yeah he’s showing signs all he needs is time”

I will take your bet Sol.

I don't love it, but I love action and I think I am better than a flip.

Has to play a minimum of 70 games?

 

[johnjm22]

I wonder what percentage of defensemen taken in the top 5 actually turned into star players. It's seems like relatively few of them.

Jack Johnson
Cam Barker
Bogosian
Schenn
Gudbrandson
Larsson
Griffin Reinhart
Ryan Murray
Olli Juolevi
Thomas Hickey

 

[Sol]

Very good question. That is close. I like it, makes me think a bit.

Gudbrandson will probably end up playing close to 1000 games. But man, to take a player like that at #3 is just so awful. But in hindsight that was a pretty crappy draft with the next d-man being another laughable one in McIlrath.

Teubert never should have played a game in the NHL, from the #13 spot. And considering that the next defenseman taken is arguably the best defenseman of the 2010 decade I think you have to give the nod to Teubert even if a #13 is waaaaay less valuable than a 3.



I will take your bet Sol.

I don't love it, but I love action and I think I am better than a flip.

Has to play a minimum of 70 games?

Deal. I’ll pm you for reference.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I am very confident with my analysis of players since I am usually right.

GTFO…try usually wrong….about EVERYTHING.

You called the Danault signing horrible.

I’ll take your bet too.

 

[kilowatt]

I wonder what percentage of defensemen taken in the top 5 actually turned into star players. It's seems like relatively few of them.

Jack Johnson
Cam Barker
Bogosian
Schenn
Gudbrandson
Larsson
Griffin Reinhart
Ryan Murray
Olli Juolevi
Thomas Hickey

Since 2008:

Drew Doughty
Alex Pietrangelo
Victor Hedman
Morgan Reilly
Seth Jones
Aaron Ekblad
Noah Hanifin
Miro Heiskanen
Cale Makar
Rasmus Dahlin

Too early to call it on Bowen Byram, Jake Sanderson, Luke Hughes, and Simon Nemec.

Honestly, more often than not it seems like they do in fact hit. Here are the players I left out:

Zach Bogosian
Luke Schenn
Erik Gudbranson
Adam Larsson
Ryan Murray
Griffin Reinhart
Ollie Juolevi

10/17, although I’d split that second group into decent players and outright busts as well.

 

[Sol]

GTFO…try usually wrong….about EVERYTHING.

You called the Danault signing horrible.

I’ll take your bet too.

My issue with the danault signing was the backlog it creates at center for byfield. But if I said it was horrible please link it because I don’t recall ever saying anything other than that.

 

[FSL KINGS]

My issue with the danault signing was the backlog it creates at center for byfield. But if I said it was horrible please link it because I don’t recall ever saying anything other than that.

Backlog? Kings need to add another center if anything.

 

[Sol]

Backlog? Kings need to add another center if anything.

At the time I thought it was Byfields spot