Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread part VII

[Statto]

Turcotte had a couple of unrelated injuries in his draft year missing 22 games but finished that season strongly. The year prior he played 58/62 games. So I don’t think he was deemed injury prone before the draft. Even his problems since the draft have been unrelated. His appendix, mono (iirc), concussions then a few actual injuries. I don’t think anyone expected anything like the issues he had. If he wasn’t your pick fine, but in context at the time it was the majority consensus pick. I was hoping he’d go earlier so we could get Byram (partly need and partly as I knew his dad) but I was happy with the pick otherwise.

 

[apadilla]

Montreal's Alexander Romanov, a 2 year pro and RFA, just signed a 3 year deal at 2.5M per.

This seems to be a contract we might expect Mikey Anderson to resign with the Kings. I'm now guessing about 2.3M per for Mikey over 3 years, or 2M per over 2 years. Romanov played an almost full season last year (79 games), to where as Mikey missed 20+ games via injury. Still though, their stats are pretty similar. And both averaged close to 20 minutes per game last season.

Romanov - GP 133, G 4, A 15, 368 Hits, 204 Blocks, +/- of -8 (with not so good Montreal)
Anderson - GP 117, G 4, A 16, 209 Hits, 153 Blocks, +10

 

[BigKing]

I got booted from Angel’s stadium last year for enjoying a spliff in the smoking section. As long as the balconies at STAPLES aren’t patrolled by fascists, it will remain my #1 arena in SoCal.

Pretty sure there was no smoking allowed last season in what use to be the outdoor smoking section upstairs.

 

[kingsfan28]

First off, why do continue to defend that signing by saying “Turcotte’s choice”. The NHL teams are the ones who offer the contracts, not the players. You act as if players haven’t wanted to leave before and been told to stay by NHL teams who have a clue how to develop college players. Blake easily could have done what Bergeron did with Caufield and said “go back to school, dominate on the ice, get stronger and we will see you next spring when your college season ends” Montreal benefitted by trusting proven development paths with a very good but not ready prospect and the Kings were victimized by their obsession with putting teenagers in the AHL.

If Hughes came to Blake tomorrow and said “I want a contract offer” is Blake supposed to just say, ok, sure kid here you go” ?! That is what you are saying with Turcotte. It’s simply not the way things work with college players who 99% of the time defer to the NHL teams wishes and the other 1% leave to go play junior (which would have also been a better option than the AHL).

I addressed your other point already, the red flags were the already established injury concerns and the concerns about ceiling. Both of which turned out to be a reality. I just don’t get how you can praise Blake and the scouting team for finding gems in later rounds (which is fine, so do I) but then completely absolve them of any blame when picks like Vilardi and Turcotte don’t return close to the value used to take them. You would give Blake all the credit for taking a player where he was ranked and hitting but give him none of the blame for taking a player where he was ranked and missing. It’s to me a dishonest way of looking at things. Why even have scouts and just draft based on CSB then?

And to think the only thing preventing Turcotte from being considered on the level of some of those guys taken after him is health, well again to each his own. Josh Norris tore his ACL at the WJC’s, he missed most of his college season, development and rookie camps and was still able to finish 2nd in the AHL in goals as a 20 year old the next season, make the all-rookie team at 21 and score at a 45 goal pace and sign an $8m a year contract at 22.

Again, it would just be nice if our scouts had been able to find the right players in either the 2017 or 2019 first rounds (they did amazing in the later rounds). It would have changed the entire outlook of the team.

From the athletic:

...But four days after Wisconsin’s season was abruptly ended by Ohio State, Turcotte opted to go pro. Officially, his three-year entry-level deal begins in the 2020-21 season. For now, he will join the Ontario Reign on an amateur tryout offer (ATO).

“It came quick,” Brisson said Wednesday afternoon. “You don’t want to distract the player during the season or at the end of the season. Alex was ready for this. His mindset was the right one, in our opinion. He’s excited.”

Now there's a good chance the Kings asked him to stay, but with Brison, you know he wasn't going to change his mind. What were they going to do, not give him a contract? All the King could do was accept his choice and let him go pro.

Even Hoven wrote somewhere that Turcotte didn't like school and was turning pro as soon as he could. His mind was made up. The Kings couldn't do anything about it. That's why it was his choice. A second year would've been great, but it was never going to happen.

Caufield was total other matter. He was barely 5-6" 135 soaking wet and MTL was hoping he'd grow more while in school and wasn't physically ready to go pro. I bet Caufield hoped he'd grow more too. That's why he stayed. Turcotte at 5-11" 175 , is a big difference.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

@All The Kings Men, what do you know about Turcotte’s status for the rookie tourney next month?

 

[All The Kings Men]

@All The Kings Men, what do you know about Turcotte’s status for the rookie tourney next month?

Nothing


I'm assuming he'll participate but don't hold me to that

 

[kingsholygrail]

My very first experience with stage fright happened at the Forum bathrooms as a kid. Never forget.

Pfft, as a kid it was all about how far you could stand back and still hit the cake.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Pretty sure there was no smoking allowed last season in what use to be the outdoor smoking section upstairs.

That’s some bullshit.

 

[kingsholygrail]

That’s some bullshit.

Yeah, there are no smoking areas at Staples anymore. Funny enough I liked it out there even if I didn't smoke. People were more chatty about the game.

 

[kingsfan28]

Pfft, as a kid it was all about how far you could stand back and still hit the cake.

HAHA! Anyone remember the pee troughs at Dodger stadium?

 

[lumbergh]

Montreal's Alexander Romanov, a 2 year pro and RFA, just signed a 3 year deal at 2.5M per.

This seems to be a contract we might expect Mikey Anderson to resign with the Kings. I'm now guessing about 2.3M per for Mikey over 3 years, or 2M per over 2 years. Romanov played an almost full season last year (79 games), to where as Mikey missed 20+ games via injury. Still though, their stats are pretty similar. And both averaged close to 20 minutes per game last season.

Romanov - GP 133, G 4, A 15, 368 Hits, 204 Blocks, +/- of -8 (with not so good Montreal)
Anderson - GP 117, G 4, A 16, 209 Hits, 153 Blocks, +10

Seems like a good comparison for Mikey. 2x2 seems pretty fair. We’ll likely see something of that sort before training camp starts.

 

[Herby]

From the athletic:

...But four days after Wisconsin’s season was abruptly ended by Ohio State, Turcotte opted to go pro. Officially, his three-year entry-level deal begins in the 2020-21 season. For now, he will join the Ontario Reign on an amateur tryout offer (ATO).

“It came quick,” Brisson said Wednesday afternoon. “You don’t want to distract the player during the season or at the end of the season. Alex was ready for this. His mindset was the right one, in our opinion. He’s excited.”

Now there's a good chance the Kings asked him to stay, but with Brison, you know he wasn't going to change his mind. What were they going to do, not give him a contract? All the King could do was accept his choice and let him go pro.

Even Hoven wrote somewhere that Turcotte didn't like school and was turning pro as soon as he could. His mind was made up. The Kings couldn't do anything about it. That's why it was his choice. A second year would've been great, but it was never going to happen.

Caufield was total other matter. He was barely 5-6" 135 soaking wet and MTL was hoping he'd grow more while in school and wasn't physically ready to go pro. I bet Caufield hoped he'd grow more too. That's why he stayed. Turcotte at 5-11" 175 , is a big difference.

Why are you highlighting "Opted to go pro" like it's an NBA or NFL player? It not similar in any way. NHL TEAMS HAVE TO OFFER CONTRACTS TO NCAA PLAYERS. Not the other way around. This isn't the NBA or NFL where you declare for a draft. College players have no leverage other than playing 4 years and getting to UFA, but for a kid who wanted to make the NHL as quick as possible that isn't an option. He could have gone to Saginaw, but that is not really leverage, the Kings would have just said, ok we will see you at camp but we aren't signing you unless you blow us away at camp and we think you're an NHL'er, once again all the leverage and developmental control with the NHL team.

So you believe that Rob Blake, who has more GP by teenagers at his AHL affiliate than any other team in the time he has been GM was actually against this particular teenager going to the AHL but was pressured by an 18/19 year old player and his agent to make a horrible development decision? That is the excuse? Blake has been obsessed with having teenagers in the AHL but he wasn't in this case?

Jonathan Toews, Matty Beniers, Cole Caufield, Owen Power, Quinn Hughes, Luke Hughes, Jake Gardiner, Kyle Okposo all players who are Brisson clients, all played beyond their freshman year of college (and most had stronger freshman years than Turcotte had). Okposo himself said a couple weeks ago on Spittin Chiclets that he wanted to go pro but the Isles wouldn't sign him. Caufield same thing, same agent. Why were these teams able to say no but the Kings weren't?

It seems pretty amazing that after that development decision has blown up in their faces (which isn't surprising) that instead of placing any blame on Blake it is now the fault of the teenager and his agent who had zero control or leverage on Blake.

Caufield could have played in the AHL as a teenager, it would have been stupid and damaged his career, but sure, he could have. They wanted him to get bigger but he's a finesse goal-scorer, he doesn't need to add weight the same way that a player expected to play a gritty sandpaper game like Turcotte does. But CC's ceiling would have been lessened without that sophomore season, just ask him, he has said it numerous times in interviews. So have guys like Zach Werenski. These guys talk about how important it was for them to have a dominant season at that level before they made the NHL. That is the key benefit to TEAMS CHOOSING to return players to school. The Kings denied that to this particular player and it will damage his NHL career, it already has unfortunately.

Is it that hard to just say, "The Kings made a bad developmental decision"?

Rob Blake has done a lot of good for the Kings, but he isn't perfect. Even Bill Belichick has made mistakes, no one is perfect.

 

[21Dog]

I mean I can enjoy the game and still think the place needs a lot of work.

Again the thing I hate the most about “the experience” is the nonstop call to cheer. It’s so annoying after the 5000th time.

Welcome to Dodger Stadium.

 

[Herby]

Very dirty and dated. The seats are really bad too. And just the area around staples is pretty trashy.

Don't ever come see the Kings play at the United Center. The area is far worse than Staples.

I don't think the area around Staples is that bad, to be honest.

 

[Cianide]

Enlighten us.

Good teams find a way to develop players, bad teams don't.

 

[Cianide]

Since those two are in charge of that area, you can. Blake may be at the top, but day to day stuff is on them.

Should development of players really be a day to day ordeal? I think it's an organization-wide philosophy.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

This topic of the Kings having the inability to develop players is getting really f***ing boring, not to mention ridiculously exaggerated.

 

[Herby]

This topic of the Kings having the inability to develop players is getting really f***ing boring, not to mention ridiculously exaggerated.

Yes, sorry to bring up the fact that it's August 22nd, 2022 and the Kings have 64 points in 207 NHL games from their 1st round forwards between 2017-2020 and that 3 of those 4 have switched positions already. That is totally acceptable and shows a clear ability to evaluate and develop high end players with first round picks. What an overreaction to say otherwise, right?

BTW, the players taken immediately after the Kings picks have played 456 games and have 247 points, with two of those being defenseman. And shockingly they are barely old enough to buy a beer, how are they doing it?

You will use metrics to praise Blake's excellent drafting in the later rounds and then ignore those same metrics that say how awful the 1st round has been.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Yes, sorry to bring up the fact that it's August 22nd, 2022 and the Kings have 64 points in 207 NHL games from their 1st round forwards between 2017-2020 and that 3 of those 4 have switched positions already. That is totally acceptable and shows a clear ability to evaluate and develop high end players with first round picks. What an overreaction to say otherwise, right?

BTW, the players taken immediately after the Kings picks have played 456 games and have 247 points, with two of those being defenseman. And shockingly they are barely old enough to buy a beer, how are they doing it?

You will use metrics to praise Blake's excellent drafting in the later rounds and then ignore those same metrics that say how awful the 1st round has been.

Prove that the Kings are any worse in 'developing' than the average team and it might be interesting.

 

[KINGS17]

From the athletic:

...But four days after Wisconsin’s season was abruptly ended by Ohio State, Turcotte opted to go pro. Officially, his three-year entry-level deal begins in the 2020-21 season. For now, he will join the Ontario Reign on an amateur tryout offer (ATO).

“It came quick,” Brisson said Wednesday afternoon. “You don’t want to distract the player during the season or at the end of the season. Alex was ready for this. His mindset was the right one, in our opinion. He’s excited.”

Now there's a good chance the Kings asked him to stay, but with Brison, you know he wasn't going to change his mind. What were they going to do, not give him a contract? All the King could do was accept his choice and let him go pro.

Even Hoven wrote somewhere that Turcotte didn't like school and was turning pro as soon as he could. His mind was made up. The Kings couldn't do anything about it. That's why it was his choice. A second year would've been great, but it was never going to happen.

Caufield was total other matter. He was barely 5-6" 135 soaking wet and MTL was hoping he'd grow more while in school and wasn't physically ready to go pro. I bet Caufield hoped he'd grow more too. That's why he stayed. Turcotte at 5-11" 175 , is a big difference.

Robitaille and Brisson strike again.

 

[Herby]

Prove that the Kings are any worse in 'developing' than the average team and it might be interesting.

It has been done plenty of times with 1st round picks. Your response is to bury your head in the sand and say that "These guys you expect to be good are barely old enough to buy a beer", completely ignoring that players "barely old enough to buy a beer" are contributing all over the league. Do you follow the rest of the league at all?

And the Kings aren't bad at developing everyone. A case can be made that the Kings drafting and development outside of round 1 is the best in the NHL. Which ofcourse you would agree with. And then completely disagree with those same statistics saying how bad the 1st round has been.

But I'd be happy to provide evidence.

#11 pick in 2017 Gabriel Vilardi 89GP - 18- 19- 37. (re-signed to 1 year, $825k deal)

Next 6 forwards taken

12- Martin Necas - 203GP - 45- 74- 119 (2 years, $6m)
13 Nick Suzuki - 209GP- 49 - 94- 143 (8 years, $63m)
19 Josh Norris - 125GP - 52 - 38 - 90 (8 years, $63m)
20 Robert Thomas - 241GP - 42 - 122 - 164 (2 years, $5.6m)
21 Filip Chytil - 253GP - 42- 51- 93 (2 years, $4.6m)
22 Kailer Yamamoto - 186GP - 40 - 53- 93 (2 years, $6.2m)

How many of these players would you take over Vilardi? be honest.

Simply amazing how much money teams are giving to players "barely old enough to buy a beer". These guys clearly can't be contributing, they are barely old enough to buy a beer.


#5 pick in 2019 Alex Turcotte 8GP - 0 - 0 - 0

Next 6 forwards taken

7 - Dylan Cozens 120GP - 17- 34- 51
9 - Trevor Zegras 99GP - 26 - 48 - 74
10 - Visali Podzokin 79GP - 14 - 12 - 26
12 - Matt Boldy - 47GP - 15 - 24 - 39
15 - Cole Caufield - 77GP - 27- 21- 48
16 - Alex Newhook 77GP - 13- 23 - 36

How many of these players would you take over Turcotte? be honest

When you have a #11 and a #5 pick entering their 6th and 4th years in the organization and in each of their drafts almost everyone taken closely after them are clearly outperforming them, well you have a problem. This is a results oriented business and the results aren't there.

I won't do 2020, I do think its a bit to early to judge QB, talk to me next spring. But you also do have to say that so far there are five players from that draft who despite being "not even old enough to buy a beer" have produced a .5 PPG in the NHL over 60 or more NHL games.

I just think you have a woeful ignorance of how many players under 21-22 that there are producing in the league right now. You don't need to be the legal age to drink booze to be an impact NHL'er, and if you are a 1st round forward and you aren't there by your 22nd birthday your chances are pretty slim to be anything more than a depth piece. You ain't a "kid" anymore in the NHL world. Don't believe me check the success rate of 1st rounders who aren't NHL regulars by that age, it's a graveyard.

 

[KINGS17]

Yes, sorry to bring up the fact that it's August 22nd, 2022 and the Kings have 64 points in 207 NHL games from their 1st round forwards between 2017-2020 and that 3 of those 4 have switched positions already. That is totally acceptable and shows a clear ability to evaluate and develop high end players with first round picks. What an overreaction to say otherwise, right?

BTW, the players taken immediately after the Kings picks have played 456 games and have 247 points, with two of those being defenseman. And shockingly they are barely old enough to buy a beer, how are they doing it?

You will use metrics to praise Blake's excellent drafting in the later rounds and then ignore those same metrics that say how awful the 1st round has been.

ROB SOLO:

Prove that the Kings are any worse in 'developing' than the average team and it might be interesting.

Why don't you prove that the Kings are average, or above average at drafting and/or developing forwards taken in the first round? All empirical evidence suggests the Kings are below average in this department.

 

[Herby]

Robitaille and Brisson strike again.

Yup, that was my first thought as soon as @kingsfan28 posted the quote from Brisson. I just forgot to mention it. I had no idea that Brisson was Turcotte's agent. I knew he used Brendan to lock up almost everyone who has come through UM the last couple of years, but didn't know he had both the Wisconsin guys too.

It would be the most Luc thing ever to severely damage the development of the highest pick the team had made (at the time) in the last decade to do his buddy a favor. But really is it that far fetched to think that Brisson called Luc and said, "Hey my guy wants to go pro, can you make it happen?" and Luc obliged. And hey if that were the case then Blake does get no blame because just like TM as the coach, he was just doing what his boss said.

But that is only speculation, and Blake's AHL obsession still makes me think he was probably on board with it either way.

 

[KINGS17]

Yup, that was my first thought as soon as @kingsfan28 posted the quote from Brisson. I just forgot to mention it. I had no idea that Brisson was Turcotte's agent. I knew he used Brendan to lock up almost everyone who has come through UM the last couple of years, but didn't know he had both the Wisconsin guys too.

It would be the most Luc thing ever to severely damage the development of the highest pick the team had made (at the time) in the last decade to do his buddy a favor. But really is it that far fetched to think that Brisson called Luc and said, "Hey my guy wants to go pro, can you make it happen?" and Luc obliged. And hey if that were the case then Blake does get no blame because just like TM as the coach, he was just doing what his boss said.

But that is only speculation, and Blake's AHL obsession still makes me think he was probably on board with it either way.

Either way, something is rotten in Denmark. It wouldn't shock me to learn that Brisson called Robitaille and told him Turcotte wanted to turn pro, and Robitaille obliged by having the organization offer a contract.

Luc is show friends, not show business.

 

[Statto]

It has been done plenty of times with 1st round picks. Your response is to bury your head in the sand and say that "These guys you expect to be good are barely old enough to buy a beer", completely ignoring that players "barely old enough to buy a beer" are contributing all over the league. Do you follow the rest of the league at all?

And the Kings aren't bad at developing everyone. A case can be made that the Kings drafting and development outside of round 1 is the best in the NHL. Which ofcourse you would agree with. And then completely disagree with those same statistics saying how bad the 1st round has been.

But I'd be happy to provide evidence.

#11 pick in 2017 Gabriel Vilardi 89GP - 18- 19- 37. (re-signed to 1 year, $825k deal)

Next 6 forwards taken

12- Martin Necas - 203GP - 45- 74- 119 (2 years, $6m)
13 Nick Suzuki - 209GP- 49 - 94- 143 (8 years, $63m)
19 Josh Norris - 125GP - 52 - 38 - 90 (8 years, $63m)
20 Robert Thomas - 241GP - 42 - 122 - 164 (2 years, $5.6m)
21 Filip Chytil - 253GP - 42- 51- 93 (2 years, $4.6m)
22 Kailer Yamamoto - 186GP - 40 - 53- 93 (2 years, $6.2m)

How many of these players would you take over Vilardi? be honest.

Simply amazing how much money teams are giving to players "barely old enough to buy a beer". These guys clearly can't be contributing, they are barely old enough to buy a beer.


#5 pick in 2019 Alex Turcotte 8GP - 0 - 0 - 0

Next 6 forwards taken

7 - Dylan Cozens 120GP - 17- 34- 51
9 - Trevor Zegras 99GP - 26 - 48 - 74
10 - Visali Podzokin 79GP - 14 - 12 - 26
12 - Matt Boldy - 47GP - 15 - 24 - 39
15 - Cole Caufield - 77GP - 27- 21- 48
16 - Alex Newhook 77GP - 13- 23 - 36

How many of these players would you take over Turcotte? be honest

When you have a #11 and a #5 pick entering their 6th and 4th years in the organization and in each of their drafts almost everyone taken closely after them are clearly outperforming them, well you have a problem. This is a results oriented business and the results aren't there.

I won't do 2020, I do think its a bit to early to judge QB, talk to me next spring. But you also do have to say that so far there are five players from that draft who despite being "not even old enough to buy a beer" have produced a .5 PPG in the NHL over 60 or more NHL games.

I just think you have a woeful ignorance of how many players under 21-22 that there are producing in the league right now. You don't need to be the legal age to drink booze to be an impact NHL'er, and if you are a 1st round forward and you aren't there by your 22nd birthday your chances are pretty slim to be anything more than a depth piece. You ain't a "kid" anymore in the NHL world. Don't believe me check the success rate of 1st rounders who aren't NHL regulars by that age, it's a graveyard.

You can’t say Vilardi was a bad pick because no one could have expected what happened with his back. It definitely impacted the short window to improve his skating in any meaningful way. Given the issues it’s remarkable that he’s played at all, in some ways. But… even allowing for all of that they didn’t handle him as well as they should have. He needed more AHL time and should never have played 2C so early.

It was a great pick in context, the talent is top 10 pick level (higher if he had better skating)… but bad luck and a couple of debatable decisions. But again it’s easy with hindsight because his first 10 games got us all very excited.