Prospect Info: LA Kings 2013 mid-season prospect rankings – 5 & 4 out now!

[PJ Kings Hockey]

King's Pawn and CNS, your explanations on how you place value on prospects are illuminating. I don't have a stake in arguing for one player over another, even if I may like a prospect's hands, heart, grit, whatever and think that attribute has value. I do, however, have an interest in what makes one player more valuable to a specific team or a better fit, as you said, CNS. I am going to reference it, I'm going to do it....Moneyball has been a favorite of mine for a few years now. If we assume that most players have at least one significant flaw, what one skill is significantly valuable enough to make the flaw(s) less important? Who is our Scott Hatteberg and what skill is the equivalent of consistently getting walks (and therefore getting on base)?

Grinders with size are valued on this team, with reason. Simon Gagne wasn't one and wasn't a good fit. But I like soft hands, the ability to create opportunities and put the puck in the net, the ability to move with speed when other parts are slow. I also like defensive prowess and puck possession. Somehow, though, we are one of the best in league in puck possession, if not the best, and yet we are the 2nd worst team in the league in scoring goals. Instead of putting the puck in the net, we are just playing keep-away, aren't we?

So, looking at Dowd, Mersch, Des, Shore, Andreoff, Fasching 1) who are are we likely to see in the very near future and 2) who is able to provide something tangible that Nolan, Lewis, Frattin, Stoll, King, and Clifford don't already give us? What is this team's window of time to be a Stanley Cup contender with the stars we have? While we have depth, we don't have blue-chip prospects, as someone said, so we need to choose specific pieces.

Who would have thought T.J. Oshie's skill in the shoot-out would have made such a difference as it did?

Anyway, I enjoy learning from you all and I really enjoy these rankings.

 

[CNS]

If we assume that most players have at least one significant flaw, what one skill is significantly valuable enough to make the flaw(s) less important?

This one sentence here. While its not 100% perfect IMO, you understand prospects much more than 99.999999% on this board. The idea is right there.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

In the Kings system? Corsi, duh!

 

[Vino]

LA Kings 2013 mid-season prospect rankings – honorable mention

LA Kings 2014 mid-season prospect rankings – the countdown begins

Jonny Brodzinski is having another good year. Does Maxim Kitsyn, who is 1 1/2 years older and was send to ECHL because he was ineffective in the AHL, really have more potential than Brodzinski? Nic Dowd is three years older than Brodzinski, which are biggest differencies between them?

Andreoff over Shore? Toughness over skill or what? Shore's preseason was better than Andreoff's.

Hudson Fasching is underrated here. If he learns to shoot he is going to be a good secondliner in the NHL. If he doesn't, he is will be a really good thirdliner (as fast and physical than Trevor Lewis and as good along the boards and passer than Dwight King). I think he is King's best prospect, better than Forbort or Gravel or Zykov or Vey or Pearson.

 

[KingPurpleDinosaur]

fasching is strange. I remember reading in an article after our 2013 draft that the Kings really stole one by getting this guy. Then, in this article, someone labeled him with "first round talent", yet we picked him in the 4th round. Not only was it the 4th round, though, it was our 3rd pick in the draft. If we wanted him so badly, why didn't we pick him up with our 2nd pick?

Also interesting how Ebert was somewhat penalized for begin in the OHL, but there's a lot of college level talent placed in front of him. Is talent a lot better in college than OHL or something?

the top 5 is probably going to have a surprising name to me. Can't think of more than 4 names that should be up there. It'll be good to hear about Forbort since I don't hear about him very much at all

 

[lotionmyfeet*]

thanks for all the hard work and analysis... great job guys

 

[Fat Elvis]

Also interesting how Ebert was somewhat penalized for begin in the OHL, but there's a lot of college level talent placed in front of him. Is talent a lot better in college than OHL or something?

I think this can be an interesting debate.

Also, no Leslie? Discussing him with Guelph fans, he's a serious player having yet another solid season playing in all situations. Not even an HM? A curious omission IMO.

By the way, thank you for putting this together. Every list should have some healthy debate. Good job.

 

[Jason Lewis]

cns answered this very well already, but just to add, Mersch was labeled as a long shot by a few readers. That doesn't mean he is.

Two people can look at a prospect and have two completely different opinions. I'm not as high on Weal as cns is. Similarly, when we compared lists last year, I was a lot higher on Ebert than he.

While The Mayor gets feedback from us, this list is HIS list. I can assure you no two lists are the same. So, it's not that The Mayor thinks the tenth best prospect is a longshot. He just sees and makes determinations differently.

But I can assure you there is a lot of homework and effort put into this list, with the final say coming from neither cns nor myself

And the opinions can change on players. I, like you, was not super high on Weal or Prokhorkin, but both have really risen in my eyes in the last year and a half. No two lists are ever the same that's for sure.

Good on everyone over at MM for contributing.

 

[CNS]

No two lists are ever the same that's for sure.

Good on everyone over at MM for contributing.

true.

Cause ours is better.

 

[Jason Lewis]

true.

Cause ours is better.

It's an opinion ranking, just like any other. To designate one of them as "best" or "better" is silly unless I am saying something like Brian O'Neill is our best prospect (no offense to him though). It's nice we have a group of contributors here that are active. Helps all of our fans and posters compile a list of their own almost. Feels like our fanbase is pretty knowledgeable on our system for the most part due to stuff like that.

And I know what you say is primarily tongue and cheek. Don't get me wrong here.

 

[KingPurpleDinosaur]

with all these relative perspectives on prospect charts, how about this. When looking at this years prospect rankings 5 years from now, what would reaffirm or make you think you got the prospect ranking wrong?

For instance, if 5 years from now you saw this top 10 ranking and thought, "damn, I had Vey too high and should have brought Weal up some more", what would be the reasoning for such changes in your rankings.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

with all these relative perspectives on prospect charts, how about this. When looking at this years prospect rankings 5 years from now, what would reaffirm or make you think you got the prospect ranking wrong?

For instance, if 5 years from now you saw this top 10 ranking and thought, "damn, I had Vey too high and should have brought Weal up some more", what would be the reasoning for such changes in your rankings.

Try this on for size

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/11366/kings_top20_prospects_fall2009/

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

Try this on for size

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/11366/kings_top20_prospects_fall2009/

#5, 9-11,13, 20 currently playing for the Kings. #1-3 current NHL starters for other teams. A couple of back-ups on there. So in 5 years we'll expect to see the middle of the pack playing for the Kings. Pearson, Forbort, DesLauriers, Weal, Andreoff and LaDue. Toffoli, Jones, and Zykov playing for other NHL teams. (Looking at the list from Hockeysfuture just posted on the other thread.)

Nice find.

 

[saintsnsoldiers]

#5, 9-11,13, 20 currently playing for the Kings. #1-3 current NHL starters for other teams. A couple of back-ups on there. So in 5 years we'll expect to see the middle of the pack playing for the Kings. Pearson, Forbort, DesLauriers, Weal, Andreoff and LaDue. Toffoli, Jones, and Zykov playing for other NHL teams. (Looking at the list from Hockeysfuture just posted on the other thread.)

Nice find.

Were is Scott Parse playing this year

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Were is Scott Parse playing this year

Albany Devils last year (AHL), no clue this year--can't find it anywhere. Done?

Edit: Must be done. Was easier to find his wedding registry than where he's playing hockey nowadays

What a shame. Looked promising, but couldn't stay healthy. Hips are big for hockey.

 

[King'sPawn]

Jonny Brodzinski is having another good year. Does Maxim Kitsyn, who is 1 1/2 years older and was send to ECHL because he was ineffective in the AHL, really have more potential than Brodzinski? Nic Dowd is three years older than Brodzinski, which are biggest differencies between them?

For what it's worth, I'm not very high on Kitsyn. However, people are drawn by Kitsyn's size and skillset. He may be struggling in the AHL, but he fell off the map, as The Mayor wrote, when he had to go back to Russia, and he had minimal ice time.

As for Brodzinski, he is a sniper, and almost a purely offensive player. However, the context of his numbers make them seem less impressive. Not bad, mind you, just less impressive.

For example, his numbers for a sophomore are very good. However, he started two years later, so he's older than other sophomores. He's also a bit one dimensional; so unless the player is putting up phenomenal numbers, there will be some questions of how well the transition will be made to the professional ranks. At least in my opinion.

Dowd is putting up similar numbers to Brodzinski, while adding the intangibles of leadership, defensive play, grit and size. As The Mayor wrote, Dowd is a heart and soul type of player, and that has a lot of value.

Andreoff over Shore? Toughness over skill or what? Shore's preseason was better than Andreoff's.

Players aren't ranked based off preseason

Hudson Fasching is underrated here. If he learns to shoot he is going to be a good secondliner in the NHL. If he doesn't, he is will be a really good thirdliner (as fast and physical than Trevor Lewis and as good along the boards and passer than Dwight King). I think he is King's best prospect, better than Forbort or Gravel or Zykov or Vey or Pearson.

Who is underrating Fasching in this thread?

fasching is strange. I remember reading in an article after our 2013 draft that the Kings really stole one by getting this guy. Then, in this article, someone labeled him with "first round talent", yet we picked him in the 4th round. Not only was it the 4th round, though, it was our 3rd pick in the draft. If we wanted him so badly, why didn't we pick him up with our 2nd pick?

A player may be labeled as having first round talent, but certain circumstances have teams slot where they think a player will fall. Fasching had an underwhelming draft year, and so he was expected to fall.

Ebert was expected to go in the first round during his draft year, but he also had an underwhelming draft season and fell to the last overall pick.

I think this can be an interesting debate.

Also, no Leslie? Discussing him with Guelph fans, he's a serious player having yet another solid season playing in all situations. Not even an HM? A curious omission IMO.

By the way, thank you for putting this together. Every list should have some healthy debate. Good job.

I would not be surprised to see Leslie move further up everyone's depth charts the more he plays. Very smart defenseman.

 

[CNS]

One of the things I forgot to mention is that the real reason this isn't just me, KP, and Mayor ranking them is because a lot of the info comes from actual scouts, coaches, and people in the organization. Again, it goes off value. So this list is pretty damn telling, if you ask me. 5-1 should be out soon.

 

[lumbergh]

Try this on for size

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/11366/kings_top20_prospects_fall2009/

I was shocked at the sheer number of players on that list that are playing in the NHL now. The Kings are doing something right when it comes to development.

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

I was shocked at the sheer number of players on that list that are playing in the NHL now. The Kings are doing something right when it comes to development.

What percentage of draftees make it to the NHL on average?

 

[Tadite]

Prokhorkin not making the top 10 because he's in the KHL seems silly. That's like HF leaving out Evgeny Kuznetsov off the Caps' Top 10 rankings.

What is the explanation? Seems a bit strange to drop a likely KHL rookie of the year and all star because needs to spend another year in Russia. Playing on the top line of a top team can't be all that damaging, it's not like he is down in the MHL somewhere. Guys going to be the equivalent of a college senior when he "graduates."

A decent argument could be made that he's the best prospect we have (not counting Tyler).

 

[Tadite]

I was shocked at the sheer number of players on that list that are playing in the NHL now. The Kings are doing something right when it comes to development.

I wanted to post that same thing. Shocked. 13 out of 20 is amazing.

Even if it's an amalgamation of multipule drafts that's not bad... not bad at all.

 

[CNS]

LA Kings 2014 mid-season prospect rankings – top defensemen

Now, we continue to count down to the LA Kings top prospect with the next two players on the list. And both happen to be defensemen.

Sorry for the delay, folks. Had other articles needing to go up and we didn't want to put too much on your plates. Spots 4 and 5 are two names people love to compare.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Interesting comparison.

Great to hear of Forbort's growth, though. Haven't read much positive about him this year but I've very seldom seen him on the ice. Tough to hear Gravel has plateau'd a bit, but I think that's a bit to be expected with how good he has been vs. how good his opponents are, i.e. he needs the next level to challenge his skills and reads.

I'm always a bit wary of guys who are drafted as straight-up defensive-defensemen (maybe more so in the first round than others, like McIlrath et. al.) because it seems like they settle into that role out of necessity (don't have the footspeed to jump into the play at a new level) rather than desire, but Gravel seems to like that game.

 

[CNS]

Interesting comparison.

Great to hear of Forbort's growth, though. Haven't read much positive about him this year but I've very seldom seen him on the ice. Tough to hear Gravel has plateau'd a bit, but I think that's a bit to be expected with how good he has been vs. how good his opponents are, i.e. he needs the next level to challenge his skills and reads.

I'm always a bit wary of guys who are drafted as straight-up defensive-defensemen (maybe more so in the first round than others, like McIlrath et. al.) because it seems like they settle into that role out of necessity (don't have the footspeed to jump into the play at a new level) rather than desire, but Gravel seems to like that game.

If you follow me on Twitter, I tweeted at the beginning of the year how brutal Forbort looked at times. Since then, all he's done is get better. He's inconsistent still but getting MUCH better and much more consistent.

 

[KingPurpleDinosaur]

If you follow me on Twitter, I tweeted at the beginning of the year how brutal Forbort looked at times. Since then, all he's done is get better. He's inconsistent still but getting MUCH better and much more consistent.

I do hear you giving him a lot of crap, so good to hear he's turning the corner.

I'm also curious who you're excited to join manchester next year. Seems like a lot of players are ready to step up to the next level.