Prospect Info: LA Kings 2013 mid-season prospect rankings – 5 & 4 out now!
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Reclamation Project
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kingsboy11
Champions Again
nice read. Thought Weal might have made it, but its understandable. Prokhorkin will be on this list in the future.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Prokhorkin not making the top 10 because he's in the KHL seems silly. That's like HF leaving out Evgeny Kuznetsov off the Caps' Top 10 rankings.
Reclamation Project
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PJ Kings Hockey
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Weal not in the Top 5, not to mention Top 10? Seriously? Glad to read of CNS' high regard for him, as well as that one scout. But knowing that Mayor's Manor did its homework, it's disappointing that multiple people have him him on the outside looking in. Wonder if Jordan Weal will prove them wrong...or prove them right.
ETA: from an MM interview from 1/2012 -
ETA: from an MM interview from 1/2012 -
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King'sPawn
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I am one of the contributors as well, and I have Weal as an honorable mention. Most notably he's very easy to knock off the puck. While he plays a great 200' game, I have concerns over how effective his defensive play will translate to the NHL when bigger, more alert and communicative players are holding onto the puck.
Prokhorkin is in my top ten. As is Roach.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
I took that as he's a bit of a wild card rather than consensus pick. Jury seems to be all over the place on Weal, though lately it seems like he's shaping up into a very solid pro. Who would you put him in the top 10 over (obviously we don't know WHO they are, but maybe we can take a stab at a list?)? I think he'd be in mine, too, but I could see how he's not.
Anyway, was interested to see what scouts/writers had to say about Weal and glad Ebert hasn't totally fallen off the radar--still a nice boom-or-bust value pick. I agree that we'll have to see where he stands vs. AHL players but there is offensive promise there.
KingPurpleDinosaur
Bandwagon Kings Fan
wow, these guys are outside the top 10? either we're deeper than I thought, I overrated these guys, or there is some talent with rocketing value coming through the pipelines.
can't wait to read the next article
Update: at the same time, they're probably including 4 players who are about to break their prospect title (jones, toffoli, pearson, vey). so really you could pretty much add these 4 into the top 10
can't wait to read the next article
Update: at the same time, they're probably including 4 players who are about to break their prospect title (jones, toffoli, pearson, vey). so really you could pretty much add these 4 into the top 10
King'sPawn
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Ebert is a huge wild card. Not on my list, but that's just more credit to other players moving up.
While both he and Zac Leslie are offensive defensemen, Ebert is more of a puck carrier than a puck mover. He does things with the puck I've only seen Doughty pull off better, but that can lead to a player trying to do too much with the puck, which he does.
But I also can't think of a defensive prospect in the system who is more decisive and quick to move the puck on the attack.
He could also use more of a mean streak.
I haven't given up on him, but I have tempered my expectations of him until I see him play effectively and spectacularly against the next level. There are too many fancy prospects who flame out in the professional ranks.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
I'd say we have solid prospect depth for sure but precious few (apparent) bluechippers, though one can always develop out of the woodwork. We obviously have a few guys who are solid but could top out pretty high like Zykov, Fasching, Porky, etc., just no Drouins or Yakupovs for obvious reasons.
I really like the stratification, though--several guys in juniors, several in AHL, etc.--all growing and coming up together to replace other guys who have moved on. That is, I don't see any major holes, and any areas of weakness could be restocked this draft. Very nice.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
King'sPawn
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goosh
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Spot-on analysis on Weal. I think the 10-15 range is right for him. I love his energy and playmaking abilities, but there are still some hurdles he has to overcome.
With that said, I believe there's an outside chance he receives a call-up next year.
PJ Kings Hockey
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- Oct 15, 2013
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I appreciate your insights, King's Pawn and all who posted here. I am trying to understand what makes a prospect more promising in the eyes of scouts. Are we judging based on current ability compared to other prospects, projected ceiling or how well they fill their projected role (for example, top 6 player vs. bottom 6 player)?
Last year's midseason list:
1. Tyler Toffoli (NHL)
2. Tanner Pearson (AHL mostly)
3. Jake Muzzin (NHL)
4. Linden Vey (AHL mostly)
5. Derek Forbort (AHL)
6. Martin Jones (now in NHL)
7. Nick Deslauriers (AHL)
8. Kevin Gravel (NCAA, senior this year)
9. Andy Andreoff (AHL)
10. Brandon Kozun (traded)
I would eliminate Toffoli, Jones and Muzzin from this year's prospect list since they have transitioned to the NHL. Kozun has been traded. The article stated "The jury will remain out on Ebert until he gets to the AHL and is tested against a higher level of competition." Therefore, I think we have to postpone including players still in juniors, like Zykov. Fasching, an exciting prospect, might be included, but then again, he's only played a few months against NCAA competition, so personally I think it's too early to add him to this list. However, that could be debated.
Nick Shore is definitely a promising prospect, having shown a dependable game both in the NCAA and in the AHL so far. While last year's analysis thought that Nick Deslauriers "hasn’t taken a significant step up yet" and "appears to be settling in to what he will ultimately become," his change to the forward position has been a very successful experiment. If we look at the Manchester team that played last weekend (while Pearson and Vey have been up and not including Fraser or Schultz,) who would you say are the top 3 players? I would argue that they are, in no particular order, Shore, Weal and Deslauriers. Andreoff still needs to progress more than we have seen so far and Forbort also needs another year or two to stand out.
From the NCAA, currently I would add only Kevin Gravel, though it is hard to judge Dowd, Mersch, LaDue, etc. (Analysis posted here helps and is very welcome.)
Therefore, I have the following players as the most promising prospects, in no particular order:
Pearson
Vey
Bodnarchuk
Weal
Shore
Deslauriers
Gravel
Prohorkins is not facing North American competition so as the article put forth, his inclusion in this list might be better put off until he arrives.
Am I missing anyone?
ETA: Interestingly, on the Toronto Marlies thread, posters have been discussing the NHL potential of Brandon Kozun after his good start there. ULF_55 posted a chart comparing various Manch players (former call-up Cameron Burt included). Of course, points don't tell the story of a person's defensive commitment or ability to win board battles.
Last year's midseason list:
1. Tyler Toffoli (NHL)
2. Tanner Pearson (AHL mostly)
3. Jake Muzzin (NHL)
4. Linden Vey (AHL mostly)
5. Derek Forbort (AHL)
6. Martin Jones (now in NHL)
7. Nick Deslauriers (AHL)
8. Kevin Gravel (NCAA, senior this year)
9. Andy Andreoff (AHL)
10. Brandon Kozun (traded)
I would eliminate Toffoli, Jones and Muzzin from this year's prospect list since they have transitioned to the NHL. Kozun has been traded. The article stated "The jury will remain out on Ebert until he gets to the AHL and is tested against a higher level of competition." Therefore, I think we have to postpone including players still in juniors, like Zykov. Fasching, an exciting prospect, might be included, but then again, he's only played a few months against NCAA competition, so personally I think it's too early to add him to this list. However, that could be debated.
Nick Shore is definitely a promising prospect, having shown a dependable game both in the NCAA and in the AHL so far. While last year's analysis thought that Nick Deslauriers "hasn’t taken a significant step up yet" and "appears to be settling in to what he will ultimately become," his change to the forward position has been a very successful experiment. If we look at the Manchester team that played last weekend (while Pearson and Vey have been up and not including Fraser or Schultz,) who would you say are the top 3 players? I would argue that they are, in no particular order, Shore, Weal and Deslauriers. Andreoff still needs to progress more than we have seen so far and Forbort also needs another year or two to stand out.
From the NCAA, currently I would add only Kevin Gravel, though it is hard to judge Dowd, Mersch, LaDue, etc. (Analysis posted here helps and is very welcome.)
Therefore, I have the following players as the most promising prospects, in no particular order:
Pearson
Vey
Bodnarchuk
Weal
Shore
Deslauriers
Gravel
Prohorkins is not facing North American competition so as the article put forth, his inclusion in this list might be better put off until he arrives.
Am I missing anyone?
ETA: Interestingly, on the Toronto Marlies thread, posters have been discussing the NHL potential of Brandon Kozun after his good start there. ULF_55 posted a chart comparing various Manch players (former call-up Cameron Burt included). Of course, points don't tell the story of a person's defensive commitment or ability to win board battles.
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Part two aka 10-6.
LA Kings 2014 mid-season prospect rankings – the countdown begins
Going to absolutely tease you guys here:
LA Kings 2014 mid-season prospect rankings – the countdown begins
Going to absolutely tease you guys here:
King'sPawn
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PJ, I'm not a professional scout, this is a hobby. Though I would love to get an opportunity.
Anyway, just to explain my mentality/methodology:
I rank the players based off of potential, likelihood to reach potential, and NHL readiness. Of course, those three categories have different criteria.
In Weal's case, his size limits his potential, although he does have a lot of talent. He not only gets knocked off the puck fairly easily, but he bounces off players when he initiates contact. Strength is an issue.
He is defensively responsible, but I wouldn't say defensively effective. I have often seen him sneak up on the opposition and steal the puck. That's great. That works at the AHL level. I don't see how he will be able to pull off the same stuff when NHLers keep their head on a swivel, skate faster, and stay stronger on the puck. Sure, you see it from time to time, but it takes a lot more to be effective consistently on defense at the NHL level. That's why I question how well it will translate.
Just some additional info explaining what I, personally, see.
Anyway, just to explain my mentality/methodology:
I rank the players based off of potential, likelihood to reach potential, and NHL readiness. Of course, those three categories have different criteria.
In Weal's case, his size limits his potential, although he does have a lot of talent. He not only gets knocked off the puck fairly easily, but he bounces off players when he initiates contact. Strength is an issue.
He is defensively responsible, but I wouldn't say defensively effective. I have often seen him sneak up on the opposition and steal the puck. That's great. That works at the AHL level. I don't see how he will be able to pull off the same stuff when NHLers keep their head on a swivel, skate faster, and stay stronger on the puck. Sure, you see it from time to time, but it takes a lot more to be effective consistently on defense at the NHL level. That's why I question how well it will translate.
Just some additional info explaining what I, personally, see.
King'sPawn
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Love Fasching on the list, as I have him there.
Very surprised by Dowd though. Strikes me as a Derek Armstrong type of player. No remarkable talent (compared to other prospects), but is a coach's dream who plays with heart.
Asked in January about Dowd and Mersch and no one was high on Mersch calling him a "long shot". Curious what's changed or maybe that your 10th highest rated prospect is at best a "long shot". I'd like to know why you like him above players like Weal and Porky?
The outlines for how the players are ranked is in the intro to the 10-6 part but basically, a lot has to do with upside, fit in the system, who holds the biggest value, etc. While Prokhorkin's upside is definitely higher than Mersch, its hard to gauge him playing in the KHL. Russian risk factor is ALWAYS unfortunately a concern, plus transitioning over to NA isn't easy, as Max Kitsyn has shown. Weal unfortunately may be a better prospect but his fit, even I will admit, isn't ideal. His negatives have been touched on. And those will hold him back.
Plus, this isn't just an outside perspective. There's far more than just me, KP, and the Mayor with our voice in this. See, if this was my list, or I was 1/3 of the input, you bet your ass Weal is in the top 10.
As for Dowd, again it goes on value. He has a LOT of traits the Kings highly value. Sure, his offensive output isn't that of Weal or some lower guys but he's got a lot of tools to be an effective pro and one that really fits what LA wants to do.
I'm not sure what I personally ever said on Mersch but I'm not as high as him as others are. He has tools to again be a great fit. If you read the article, it clearly states Mersch could have turned pro last offseason. You can easily logically draw a line from there to say that the Kings wanted to sign him last offseason. If they didn't, he wouldn't have had that option. And if the Kings want to sign him, you can best bet he's got some value.
Reclamation Project
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King'sPawn
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cns answered this very well already, but just to add, Mersch was labeled as a long shot by a few readers. That doesn't mean he is.
Two people can look at a prospect and have two completely different opinions. I'm not as high on Weal as cns is. Similarly, when we compared lists last year, I was a lot higher on Ebert than he.
While The Mayor gets feedback from us, this list is HIS list. I can assure you no two lists are the same. So, it's not that The Mayor thinks the tenth best prospect is a longshot. He just sees and makes determinations differently.
But I can assure you there is a lot of homework and effort put into this list, with the final say coming from neither cns nor myself
