Proposal: Kyle Connor for Miro Heiskanen

[Ares]

Makes sense for both sides, I think. Stars need a scoring winger and Connor is a damn good one. Jets have the depth and can take a risk for a good promising prospect like Heiskanen.

KC is a very underrated player IMO and Heiskanen might just be a bit overrated prospect. I would hate to see Connor go (especially within the same division) but taking everything into consideration (depth, future contracts, cap space, etc) I think this trade might make sense for the Jets and I would be okay with it.

 

[BB88]

Out of curiosity, if you're considering the addition of Heiskanen massive, what would the addition of Karlsson be then? Same question applies to some of your other arguments too; if seeing the results of adding Karlsson, the best defenseman on the planet, takes years, what's the timeline with Heiskanen?

I'm under the impression that you are a fellow Finn. Take off the blue-and-white goggles and think about it. Heiskanen or Karlsson is no tough choice, regardless of what your second line looks like.

If they were both available for free not thinking anything else it's Karlsson AINEC.

Why I'm thinking Heiskanen addition is massive? McAvoy/Werenski type rookie season is what I'm looking at here. 1st pair LD on ELC with 10M cap to spent elsewhere= massive gain.
Of course we can't predict injuries.

4 player teams don't win Cups, I'll say it again.
I love Karlsson, he's a beauty but you can't drive yourself into cap hell, I watched Chia do that in Boston and mess up a longterm contender with poor prospect pool.

Imagine your Jets, (though) they are one of the deepest teams in the league, what if you had 0 quality ELC's on the roster and 0 quality ELC's you could think about getting from your prospect pool.
It's not a fun place to be.

This is where Dallas's bad drafting costs them dearly, Tampa is in a very different situation.

 

[hairylikebear]

What goal posts? Did I not address your comment entirely? In this circumstance considering their cap space and not being considered a contender right now, losing 2 years of an ELC for the return of Connor wouldnt have the same implications of a contender who's relying on that ELC due to cap constraints. Heiskanen holds more value, and his additional ELC years also plays part in that. But let's not pretend Connor is some 26/27 year old 1 year away from UFA. 5 years of team control is still significant and does not significantly impact or lessen his value. For a team that cant fit him in due to cap constraints.
"Hey ahhh Chevy, um his ELC is almost up sooo he's basically useless now"

Connor is valuable but less so than Heiskanen, and you have admitted as much in your post. The rest is a strawman attacking a position that nobody is making. We all agree that Connor is a valuable asset.

 

[Pongs21]

Connor is valuable but less so than Heiskanen, and you have admitted as much in your post. The rest is a strawman attacking a position that nobody is making. We all agree that Connor is a valuable asset.

I think you're maybe the 3rd non Jet fan in this thread to admit that.

 

[hairylikebear]

I think you're maybe the 3rd non Jet fan in this thread to admit that.

That's just because the thread is asking for Heiskanen. Make a Connor for Faksa thread and you'll see posters flocking to Connor's defense.

 

[Zrhutch]

It’s just too risky to move Heiskanen for anyone that isn’t a lock to be great and cheap like he is. Karlsson’s great, Heiskanen won’t ever touch him, but isn’t cheap. Connor’s good but I feel like that’s cashing in early.

 

[WhatWhat]

I have an answer. Get some competent scouts, trade for Karlsson and enjoy your contender. If your #1 issue is bad drafting, you're not meant to be a contender, with or without a Heiskanen.

We dont have good scouts tho and that isnt changing.... So while we have no way of gathering ELC talent there is no point. Sure if we got new scouts that proved they new what they are doing I might have more confidence but you are kidding yourself if you think you can revamp a scouting department and have them show fans they are worth their pay before Karlsson gets moved.

 

[Maukkis]

If they were both available for free not thinking anything else it's Karlsson AINEC.

Why I'm thinking Heiskanen addition is massive? McAvoy/Werenski type rookie season is what I'm looking at here. 1st pair LD on ELC with 10M cap to spent elsewhere= massive gain.
Of course we can't predict injuries.

4 player teams don't win Cups, I'll say it again.
I love Karlsson, he's a beauty but you can't drive yourself into cap hell, I watched Chia do that in Boston and mess up a longterm contender with poor prospect pool.

Imagine your Jets, (though) they are one of the deepest teams in the league, what if you had 0 quality ELC's on the roster and 0 quality ELC's you could think about getting from your prospect pool.
It's not a fun place to be.

This is where Dallas's bad drafting costs them dearly, Tampa is in a very different situation.

Are guys like Honka and Gurianov not ELC contributors?

A Karlsson doesn't drive you into a cap hell. A Hanzal or a Methot does.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

After 4 years of 30+ goal seasons in his early 20s, Ryan was traded for 2 good prospects and a 1st round pick. Not for a top 3 NHL prospect like Heiskanen.

When he had 2 years left before becoming a UFA, not when he was a 21 year old with cost-control for years to come, which is the entire point.

 

[WhatWhat]

I think you're maybe the 3rd non Jet fan in this thread to admit that.

If you have only seen 3 non jets fans say that then you have the most insanely selective reading ever... No one is saying Connor is trash.

 

[Maukkis]

We dont have good scouts tho and that isnt changing.... So while we have no way of gathering ELC talent there is no point. Sure if we got new scouts that proved they new what they are doing I might have more confidence but you are kidding yourself if you think you can revamp a scouting department and have them show fans they are worth their pay before Karlsson gets moved.

Toronto literally fired more scouts in a day than most teams have on payroll altogether. It can be done.

But if the unwillingness to trade for Karlsson stems from bad drafting, I doubt the Stars will achieve anything anytime soon.

 

[Pongs21]

If you have only seen 3 non jets fans say that then you have the most insanely selective reading ever... No one is saying Connor is trash.

None have said those words exactly, but it sure has been implied. Theres been nothing but attempts to tear him down and excuses to diminish his value since the beginning.

 

[hairylikebear]

When he had 2 years left before becoming a UFA, not when he was a 21 year old with cost-control for years to come, which is the entire point.

That argument applies more-so to Heiskanen. He is younger and has more cost controlled years ahead of him.

 

[BB88]

Are guys like Honka and Gurianov not ELC contributors?

A Karlsson doesn't drive you into a cap hell. A Hanzal or a Methot does.

Honka had 4 points last season, tough to call him a quality ELC contributer at this moment.
3 players making 10-11M each without elite/great/good prospect pool drives you into cap hell.


Jets with Laine/Scheifele/Wheeler/Buff and not awhole lot more isn't a Cup contender.

 

[WhatWhat]

Are guys like Honka and Gurianov not ELC contributors?

A Karlsson doesn't drive you into a cap hell. A Hanzal or a Methot does.

God no. Honka will be 3rd pair so you are replacing a 2 million dollar D with a 1 million dollar D. Gurianov wont make the NHL this year so no he isnt and ELC contributor (might never be the way he is going and at best he will replace a 3rd/4th liner so again its a net gain of maybe a million or less.) Miro will be top 4 to start. That starts to be a net gain of a new extra million if you see a 2nd pairing D be worth 3-4 million. After that, and this is the exact gamble Dallas is making, if Miro gets to be a top pairing D while on the ELC then the net gain you have from using him over a vet starts to be in the 5 million dollar range.

There is a massive difference getting and ELC player to replace a 3rd pairing D vs having an ELC player who could very well be your second best D come season end. You can fill your 4th line with ELC contracts but thats not when you get value out of it because vets would be roughly the same price. The ELC value comes in massively when you start to get top 6 or top 4 D minutes out of the player

 

[WhatWhat]

Toronto literally fired more scouts in a day than most teams have on payroll altogether. It can be done.

But if the unwillingness to trade for Karlsson stems from bad drafting, I doubt the Stars will achieve anything anytime soon.

Did you even read what I wrote... I said you cant revamp the scouts and have them show their worth in that short of a time frame.... There is no guarentee that the new scouts do any better and all they need to do is miss on the first draft or 2 and we are still there. Yeah you can fire and hire 100000000 people in a day if you want but you can't tell their worth to the company immediately. That takes time. So no Nill switching out 50% of the scouts right this second wont make me go "Oh well now Im fully expecting us to get amazing prospects that will give meaningful minutes right away" It will make me say "Cool lets see how they do in their first few drafts"

 

[MrHeiskanen]

I think we should all agree with the Jets fans that Connor is better than Heiskanen so this silly thread can end even though we all know the real answer.

 

[WhatWhat]

None have said those words exactly, but it sure has been implied. Theres been nothing but attempts to tear him down and excuses to diminish his value since the beginning.

You are playing the victim card really hard here. Saying Miro is worth more than Connor is in no way someone trying to tear down Connor... Its completely 100% reasonable to think Miro has more value and Connor is a good player. Those 2 things arent mutually exclusive.

 

[Pongs21]

I'm not talking about your posts, but others. KC has got little to no respect in this thread

 

[Icebreakers]

Hfboards once again valuing prospects over young proven NHL talent, colour me shocked

By that logic you wouldn't trade Connor for Dahlin either. And before you answer this , really think about what you're going to say. Don't make a fool out of yourself.

 

[JetsHomer]

By that logic you wouldn't trade Connor for Dahlin either. And before you answer this , really think about what you're going to say. Don't make a fool out of yourself.

Miro Heiskanen isn’t Rasmus Dahlin

 

[Commander Clueless]

Agreed. One is a prospect that had a great season in Europe one was one of two under 21 year olds to score 31 goals in the NHL

This is Connor AINEC

Not to pile on you, but I believe there were 4 players that were Connor's age or younger to hit or surpass that mark last season.

I'll leave the Heiskanen vs Connor debate alone because I'm afraid.

I will say I don't know why the Jets would make that trade seeing as they have a pretty balanced team as it is. Maybe they would consider trading for a (established) center, I suppose? That's all I could think of on paper.

Carry on.

 

[Bumblebee Man]

Miro Heiskanen isn’t Rasmus Dahlin

You're right. He's only the 2nd best d prospect in the world right now lol. Kyle Connor must have Ovechkin value

 

[JetsHomer]

You're right. He's only the 2nd best d prospect in the world right now lol. Kyle Connor must have Ovechkin value

He can be whatever you want to consider him, he doesn’t return a 21 year old who scored 31 goals at age 20

 

[MrHeiskanen]

He can be whatever you want to consider him, he doesn’t return a 21 year old who scored 31 goals at age 20

You are right, he returns more.