Kucherov has recently joined the career 100 point pace club

[Toby91ca]

120 point pace the last 7/8 years. Who knows where his career production would be had he gotten the red carpet top three pick golden boy prospect treatment right off the bat.

Care to elaborate on what you are getting at with that?

 

[Dingo]

Kucherov is currently averaging 36-64-100 per 82.

During his years with Edmonton, Gretzky averaged 35-65-100 per FORTY-two.

I don't think anybody is seriously comparing him to Gretzky, I just think that's fun.

i meant to quote the guy above me. Stylistically, Pettersson and Kucherov remind him, and I, of Gretzky.

That said, don't raw number the early 80s to any other time. Gretzky can still get to be the best, but let's not pretend that Stoughton, Nilsson, Maruk, Rogers et al peaked higher than all but a few players today.

 

[Edgelord]

me too, and I just started playing golf

 

[WarriorofTime]

Care to elaborate on what you are getting at with that?

Pretty self explanatory. The higher the pick/prospect profile, the more opportunity you get right from the jump.

 

[Toby91ca]

Pretty self explanatory. The higher the pick/prospect profile, the more opportunity you get right from the jump.

I get that, but was wondering if you are suggesting he was done wrong by or something and he'd better at a better spot and compare better against certain other all-timers had he gotten different treatment early on. I wouldn't have paid much attention to that organization and their draft picks and development then (not that I do now either), but just looking at playing in different leagues, nothing to really suggest he should have been put in certain situations earlier. He came over a played really well in the Q, but it's not like he lit the league on fire, especially as an older player.

Teams need to be really careful with young players and not all teams are good at it. When you talk about the red carpet treatment, etc. for the golden boys, they are also stepping into situations and having to deal with the spotlight/responsibility as well....very rarely does that go well.

 

[Regal]

Idk I think it's beyond awesome a second round pick who had to work his way in and then up the lineup has become one of the greatest players of the generation. Dude just constantly worked and improved.

We all know hard workers don’t lollygag in an all star game

 

[WarriorofTime]

I get that, but was wondering if you are suggesting he was done wrong by

Not necessarily, it's pretty normal for a 2nd round pick to have to earn their roster spot, earn a higher spot in a lineup, earn powerplay time. The higher a pick someone is the more the presumption works the other way and you get players that need to prove they suck. It of course makes sense on the most generalized of levels but no doubt can create individual efficiencies on a case-by-case basis.

 

[Toby91ca]

Not necessarily, it's pretty normal for a 2nd round pick to have to earn their roster spot, earn a higher spot in a lineup, earn powerplay time. The higher a pick someone is the more the presumption works the other way and you get players that need to prove they suck. It of course makes sense on the most generalized of levels but no doubt can create individual efficiencies on a case-by-case basis.

I don't know....it's normal for all players to have to demonstrate readiness, etc. Even 1st overall picks. It's very rare, even for 1OA to come in and get top minutes......but it is more likely at that level in the draft because you are generally going to a bad team (they have the 1st pick) and they are desperate to see what they have and to try and turn things around. But just scanning through the 1st overall picks over the last 20 years, very few jumped right into the league and grabbed top minutes.

For some highly skilled forwards, sometimes teams give them good powerplay time even if they aren't ready for big even strength minutes....so sheltered a bit. Even that though....doesn't tend to happen super often.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

The last few months Kucherov has joined Crosby and McDavid as the only active members of the career 100 point pace club. For Kucherov this is especially impressive given the slow start to his career that featured a rookie season with only 18 points in 52 games followed by 65 and 66 point seasons before he really got the ball rolling. MacKinnon and Draisaitl aren’t far off from joining this club too and had similarly slow starts to their careers relative to where they’ve been the last 6+ seasons. It’s very rare to see players maintain a 100 point career pace over 700+ games but are there are other players that have done it with such slow starts to their careers?

What a beast. That type of hockey iq is so hard to scout.

 

[olli]

I think there may be a 700 game minimum here? Or perhaps you can’t round up as Kaprizov’s stats over 82 games is 99.8

I forgot about him, he definitely deserves a mention too but as you said technically he’s not quite there and he hasn’t played nearly as many games

 

[Sky04]

Idk maybe he needed to develop. But especially for forwards, it is incredibly rare for such high end offensive talents to not be identified early and picked highly in the draft.

Probably cause it wasn't there, he just learned...? Improvement is one thing you can't scout, it's not like he was Drouin making high quality passes to nobodies he legit wasn't making these types of plays early in his career... he just learned to do it. Look at his stats from juniors up till his 1st 3 seasons he was more of a goal scorer.

His assist totals shot up 50% one year then another 50% the year after then kinda stayed at the assist per game level after that. He just figured out the space and timing of the NHL like a cheat code.

 

[These Are The Days]

I've rarely seen a forward who looks as slick and smooth as Kucherov does, in such a deliberate way. Whereas someone like Draisaitl likes to stop the play and then start it again at his pace, and McDavid and MacKinnon exist to terrorize defenders with super high-speed plays, Kucherov is like water in the Kung Fu / yin-yang sense --- he just goes with the flow and makes slow and slick plays regardless of the pace going on around him.

Mario Lemieux sometimes looked like that, and of course all the great players have the ability to "slow down" the pace of the game to their own preferred speed. But, I dunno, Kucherov seems to make the most soft and deliberate plays of any major forward, and yet he makes it work. A lot of this is down to super-high hockey IQ, of course.

Kucherov and Elias Pettersson (when he isn't sucking) are the players that remind me the most of Wayne Gretzky.

(And yeah, the empty-net thing is starting to get weird. Last year, he racked up the EN goals, and this year it's assists. All fair game, I guess.)

Agreed. Gretzky tore his opponents apart with his brain like a pack of lions on a carcass. It was like 95% of his game. Now, no one is at Gretzky's level so God forbid I compare them. But Kucherov is probably gonna be (for some time) the guy who comes closest to having sheer wit be 95% of his game like Gretzky did. But Gretzky's ungodly backhand and impossible to guess shooting habits are what killed you if his brain didn't.

 

[wetcoast]

Not necessarily, it's pretty normal for a 2nd round pick to have to earn their roster spot, earn a higher spot in a lineup, earn powerplay time. The higher a pick someone is the more the presumption works the other way and you get players that need to prove they suck. It of course makes sense on the most generalized of levels but no doubt can create individual efficiencies on a case-by-case basis.

Sure but he wasn't that hot as a prospect and didn't start producing right away when given the chance either, some players grow into their eventual situation as events unfold.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

I don't know....it's normal for all players to have to demonstrate readiness, etc. Even 1st overall picks. It's very rare, even for 1OA to come in and get top minutes......but it is more likely at that level in the draft because you are generally going to a bad team (they have the 1st pick) and they are desperate to see what they have and to try and turn things around. But just scanning through the 1st overall picks over the last 20 years, very few jumped right into the league and grabbed top minutes.

For some highly skilled forwards, sometimes teams give them good powerplay time even if they aren't ready for big even strength minutes....so sheltered a bit. Even that though....doesn't tend to happen super often.

how many 1OA picks play in the AHL?

 

[onmygameboi]

Underrated player.

 

[DFC]

Rare player who continued to develop until at least age 30 (we will see). That's how he overcame the slow start to his career. And today's game just suits him more than the game of 10 years ago, but he's developed in a way that he gets to take full advantage for a while.

 

[JFedol]

It's been said before in this thread by The Macho King and WarriorofTime but there's something satisfying about superstar to borderline generational players like Kuch being late round draft picks who got underestimated or maybe overlooked in their draft years lol. f*** all those bitch ass 1st overall - top 10 picks that ended up busting later on while you have a competent team with management managing to steal away with the best player in a later round lmao. I'd 100% cherish a team like the 2010s Bruins or the late 2000s Red Wings (2006-2011) over a team like the 2010s Pens or 2010s Hawks

Honestly, I think an all time late round draft pick team (2nd Round and UP) would dust a 1st round all time team in a 7 game series IMO. The late round draft pick team would have Roy-Hasek as their goalie duo

 

[WalterLundy]

Agreed. Gretzky tore his opponents apart with his brain like a pack of lions on a carcass. It was like 95% of his game. Now, no one is at Gretzky's level so God forbid I compare them. But Kucherov is probably gonna be (for some time) the guy who comes closest to having sheer wit be 95% of his game like Gretzky did. But Gretzky's ungodly backhand and impossible to guess shooting habits are what killed you if his brain didn't.

Kucherov reminds me of 1991 Kings Gretzky. I get what you mean.

 

[nturn06]

Yes, but the person noting 100 for Kaprizov was 100pts per 82 games for career as well....rounded up from 99.8....but as someone noted, there is a game limit as well (500).

Rounded up means that he is not, or not yet to be precise.

 

[Toby91ca]

Rounded up means that he is not, or not yet to be precise.

Yes, that was my point....not at 100...but even if you could round up, he's too few games anyway

 

[Crow]

Yes, that was my point....not at 100...but even if you could round up, he's too few games anyway

764 games isn’t enough? I feel like I’m missing something.

 

[Crow]

It's been said before in this thread by The Macho King and WarriorofTime but there's something satisfying about superstar to borderline generational players like Kuch being late round draft picks who got underestimated or maybe overlooked in their draft years lol. f*** all those bitch ass 1st overall - top 10 picks that ended up busting later on while you have a competent team with management managing to steal away with the best player in a later round lmao. I'd 100% cherish a team like the 2010s Bruins or the late 2000s Red Wings (2006-2011) over a team like the 2010s Pens or 2010s Hawks

Honestly, I think an all time late round draft pick team (2nd Round and UP) would dust a 1st round all time team in a 7 game series IMO. The late round draft pick team would have Roy-Hasek as their goalie duo

Whats weird here in your post is Tampa had very slightly higher picks than the hawks to make up that team in Hedman and Stamkos.

Like Tampa they were a huge benefit of a HOF level pick in the second round - Duncan Keith.