Kucherov has 1 goal in his last three playofff appearances.

[RussianBum86]

Regardless, Jagr was scoring like 200 points some of those years. If you weren't at least a point per game in the playoffs, I could care less about eye test. The difference in games played isn't even that crazy either. 208 to 151. Jagr never scored more than 24 points in the playoffs. I get it's a different era but Kuch did that three times, twice putting up over 30.

The bottom line is, a bad 16 games for Kucherov in the playoffs still looks better than most players. But it is a bad stretch, no denying that.

Jagr never scored 200... Gretzky did. Jagr's career high was 149 in an era where points were easier to come by.

 

[Cats2TheCup]

Lots of superstars in the playoffs have a problem named Sasha Barkov. Hence three series in a row where the only thing they can do to try and stop him from stopping them is literally (Draisaitl, Hagel, Domi) taking a run at his head.

Most underrated superstar in the world. Not even getting his flowers for shutting the shit down.

 

[RussianBum86]

Lots of superstars in the playoffs have a problem named Sasha Barkov. Hence three series in a row where the only thing they can do to try and stop him from stopping them is literally (Draisaitl, Hagel, Domi) taking a run at his head.

Most underrated superstar in the world. Not even getting his flowers for shutting the shit down.

He is a great player, but he isn't in a category with Gretzky for scoring records in season or playoffs by any means. HE has score less per point per game in the playoffs, but he plays a great two way game.

 

[atlanticobserver]

He is a great player, but he isn't in a category with Gretzky for scoring records in season or playoffs by any means. HE has score less per point per game in the playoffs, but he plays a great two way game.
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As a gigantic Kuch fan, comparing Kuch and Barkov on points is kind of stupid. Obviously Kucherov is going to blow Barkov out with point totals. But Barkov plays such great defense. Kuch isn’t a sieve like some people say but he’s not even mentionable in the same breath as Barkov defensively.

I do take issue with the Panthers guy saying Hagel was trying to take out Barkov. That hit was nothing like the Domi or Draisaitl hit. Hagel is chippy but he doesn’t play that kind of game.

 

[RussianBum86]

As a gigantic Kuch fan, comparing Kuch and Barkov on points is kind of stupid. Obviously Kucherov is going to blow Barkov out with point totals. But Barkov plays such great defense. Kuch isn’t a sieve like some people say but he’s not even mentionable in the same breath as Barkov defensively.

I do take issue with the Panthers guy saying Hagel was trying to take out Barkov. That hit was nothing like the Domi or Draisaitl hit. Hagel is chippy but he doesn’t play that kind of game.

I mean the panthers did more dirty late hits on the lightning and only got suspended for one. Until someone seriously hurts on of their stars they will get cheap shotting .

 

[RussianBum86]

As a gigantic Kuch fan, comparing Kuch and Barkov on points is kind of stupid. Obviously Kucherov is going to blow Barkov out with point totals. But Barkov plays such great defense. Kuch isn’t a sieve like some people say but he’s not even mentionable in the same breath as Barkov defensively.

I do take issue with the Panthers guy saying Hagel was trying to take out Barkov. That hit was nothing like the Domi or Draisaitl hit. Hagel is chippy but he doesn’t play that kind of game.

I am just saying Barkov is not an exceptional playoff performer.

 

[MrLouniverse]

Jagr's career high was 149 in an era where points were easier to come by.

95-96 wasn't exactly a score 'em up free-for-all, it is tied with 2022-2023 for 23rd/58 highest scoring years in the post-O6 era.

 

[RussianBum86]

95-96 wasn't exactly a score 'em up free-for-all, it is tied with 2022-2023 for 23rd/58 highest scoring years in the post-O6 era.

I literally posted the stats side by side. Jagr's best season he didnt lead league and his teammate Lemieux scored more in less games. The top 25 also scored higher in his best year than Kucherov's . Kucherov also had a 54 point lead over his second teammate so he was carrying them and jagr scored less than his best teammate Lemieux. In Jagr's best season goal scoring was up quite a bit more. You have a lot more 50 goal scorers, 40 goal scorers, and two 60 goal scorers compared to one which means it was even easier to get an assist.

 

[MrLouniverse]

I literally posted the stats side by side. Jagr's best season he didnt lead league and his teammate Lemieux scored more in less games. The top 25 also scored higher in his best year than Kucherov's . Kucherov also had a 54 point lead over his second teammate so he was carrying them and jagr scored less than his best teammate Lemieux. In Jagr's best season goal scoring was up quite a bit more. You have a lot more 50 goal scorers, 40 goal scorers, and two 60 goal scorers compared to one which means it was even easier to get an assist.
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In terms of comparative edge to the rest of the league in scoring, if that is the standard, Jagr's best years were more impressive than that, in 1998-99 he had 18.7% more points than the next highest scorer (25.7% more than 3rd, 92.4% more than 25th), in 1997-1998 he had 12.1% more points than the next highest scorer, compare to Kucherov's 2.86% edge (9.1% more than 3rd, 75.6% more than 25th)

 

[RussianBum86]

In terms of comparative edge to the rest of the league in scoring, if that is the standard, Jagr's best years were more impressive than that, in 1998-98 he had 18.7% more points than the next highest scorer (25.7% more than 3rd, 92.4% more than 25th), in 1997-1998 he had 12.1% more points than the next highest scorer, compare to Kucherov's 2.86% edge (9.1% more than 3rd, 75.6% more than 25th)

View attachment 1035885

I agree Jagr is one of the goats, but his best season he wasn't the best player on his own team.

 

[MrLouniverse]

I agree Jagr is one of the goats, but his best season he wasn't the best player on his own team.

I would argue, and I think you would largely agree based on the standard set in your penultimate post, that his best season wasn't the season where he had the highest raw point total, and that in that best season he certainly was the best player on his team.

 

[DFC]

Lots of superstars in the playoffs have a problem named Sasha Barkov. Hence three series in a row where the only thing they can do to try and stop him from stopping them is literally (Draisaitl, Hagel, Domi) taking a run at his head.

Most underrated superstar in the world. Not even getting his flowers for shutting the shit down.

This. It's less about Kucherov than Barkov. He's this good.

 

[shaner8989]

Kucherov and Marner should be linemates.

 

[Beyonder91]

Kucherov and Marner should be linemates.

Kucherov would help out Marner for sure.

 

[Sentinel]

And people are out here in threads claiming he's better than Ovi or Jagr

How did Jagr do in playoffs in his 5 Art Ross seasons?

 

[daver]

How did Jagr do in playoffs in his 5 Art Ross seasons?

He had the best playoff PPG.

 

[RussianBum86]

He had the best playoff PPG.

But no 30 point playoff runs. Much less backto back 30 point playoff runs. Kucherov is in a class with gretzky and people wont give him his due. One of three players to get 40 goals and 100 assist with Gretzky. Jagr is a goat too. Jagr wasnt the top scorer on his own team in his best season and kucherov had a 54 point lead over his closet teammate.

 

[JFedol]

But no 30 point playoff runs. Much less backto back 30 point playoff runs. Kucherov is in a class with gretzky and people wont give him his due. One of three players to get 40 goals and 100 assist with Gretzky. Jagr is a goat too. Jagr wasnt the top scorer on his own team in his best season and kucherov had a 54 point lead over his closet teammate.

96 Jagr isn't his best season. Either one of 1998 -1999 is.

Only reason why he doesn't have a 30pt playoff run is because his team was lackluster during his prime. 98 to 2000 Pens had a 1C of Francis/Straka/Hrdina. A combination of Olausson/Hatcher on D and a semi-elite Barasso in net. D-core + forward depth was non-existent.

His playoff stats:

98 Jagr: 6 games, 4 goals, 5 assists, 9 PTS (PPG in a 1st round loss)
99 Jagr: 9 games, 5 goals, 7 assists, 12 PTS (Straka/Hrdina as his 1C)
00 Jagr: 11 games, 8 goals, 8 assists, 16 PTS (Straka/Hrdina as his 1C)

Elite for the DPE and considering context not only for his team and era. Deals with repeated hooking, slashing and obstruction. Finds a way to produce lol

If you watch the playoff games, Jagr also has Kucherov beat not only physically but on his possession game alone. Jagr was a better play-driver, goalscorer and a playmaker who could almost generate offense at pure will against any type of big NHL defenseman. Almost every shift, it's 70% of his time with the puck being a big time offensive puck possession player with huge ice tilting moments.

 

[JFedol]

Not saying he relies on Point, cuz Kuch is thee BUS DRIVER for that entire Tampa team.

But if it wasn't for Point and let's say Cirelli was centering him. I don't think Kucherov would be putting 120+pt seasons. You'd see a 10-20pt reduction.

It'd be more like 100-110pt seasons IMO. Something more akin to 2025 Pastrnak.

 

[CowbellConray]

I am just saying Barkov is not an exceptional playoff performer.

When you just look at points. But there is a reason he won a cup last year, got to the finals the year before, and this year shut down Kucherov/point and Marner/Matthews.

He is probably the best two way player in the world right now, and gets no credit for it

 

[RussianBum86]

Not saying he relies on Point, cuz Kuch is thee BUS DRIVER for that entire Tampa team.

But if it wasn't for Point and let's say Cirelli was centering him. I don't think Kucherov would be putting 120+pt seasons. You'd see a 10-20pt reduction.

It'd be more like 100-110pt seasons IMO. Something more akin to 2025 Pastrnak.

Point is riding off Kucherov. Literally any player they put with Kucherov is a lock for 30 goals.

 

[avocadosmoothie]

no offense to Kucherov, but he never got it done in a real cup run. 2020 was just whack with empty arenas and 0 fan pressure and they didn't even play a single team from the West in 2021. if you're unbiased, you gotta admit that it's pretty weird how Tampa only won cups during asterisk seasons.

 

[Hoek]

They almost won another cup without their number 1 center for most of the run the very next normal season though. Two overtimes in the final flip the other way and nobody's questioning anything. It's not like they flopped and instantly failed and didn't get close in 2022. Saying they couldn't get it done in a non COVID season just sounds like judging a guy who twists his ankle like two feet from the finish line and going "hah this proves he'd never complete a marathon even though he's done it before in two other cities."

 

[RussianBum86]

no offense to Kucherov, but he never got it done in a real cup run. 2020 was just whack with empty arenas and 0 fan pressure and they didn't even play a single team from the West in 2021. if you're unbiased, you gotta admit that it's pretty weird how Tampa only won cups during asterisk seasons.

Maybe because they were banged up of playiong alot more hockey games in a short period of time than any other team and fell short of a 3peat with Point out? Sounds like a hater and poverty franchinse deflector. How cups does your team have this millennium We got three cups. If you all you crazies didn't fall from the trap and lockdown for something less deadly than the yearly flu we would have won in regular time.

 

[avocadosmoothie]

Maybe because they were banged up of playiong alot more hockey games in a short period of time than any other team and fell short of a 3peat with Point out? Sounds like a hater and poverty franchinse deflector. How cups does your team have this millennium We got three cups. If you all you crazies didn't fall from the trap and lockdown for something less deadly than the yearly flu we would have won in regular time.

so it's just a coincidence that the perennial contending Lightning only managed to get their cups under covid rules? seems like asterisk cups, ngl