Confirmed with Link: Kraken sign Chandler Stephenson (7 x 6.25M)

[Fistfullofbeer]

The term seems much, but it seems like the going term to get decent players nowadays. Like this since he can play 3C to shelter Wright and is a significant upgrade on Wennberg as far as scoring goes.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1807841828902982038

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[ZDH]

Worst contract on the day of bad contracts.

 

[The Marquis]

It should look good for a couple of years. He's an upgrade and is being paid at about the rate of the upgrade that he is. Hopefully he's the type of player with some longevity.

 

[seakraken]

yeah, don't love giving 7 yr deals to 2 30 yr olds. BUT, look at it this way, would you make this deal?
Get
Stevenson for 7yrs @ $6.25m
-$2.25m 50% of Wennberg
+ 2024 2nd round Nathan Villeneauve
+ 2025 4th rounder

Give
Wennberg 1yr @ $2.25

cuz I WOULD!!

 

[majormajor]

I would rather have Wennberg's contract than this one. I would not have done this.

Stephenson didn't have a good year last year and we're betting on him improving into his 30s?

This is an enormous contract. My confidence in Ron Francis has reached a new low.

 

[gstommylee]

I would rather have Wennberg's contract than this one. I would not have done this.

Stephenson didn't have a good year last year and we're betting on him improving into his 30s?

This is an enormous contract. My confidence in Ron Francis has reached a new low.

Absolutely not. No way it would be wise to bring him back.

 

[majormajor]

Absolutely not. No way it would be wise to bring him back.

Let's come back to this conversation in a few years and see whether you're happier with this Stephenson contract. I think we will look back and wish we had just gone with a two year fill-in center like Wennberg.

 

[seakraken]

Let's come back to this conversation in a few years and see whether you're happier with this Stephenson contract. I think we will look back and wish we had just gone with a two year fill-in center like Wennberg.

my point above is that I don’t evaluate this signing on Stevenson alone. We did get a couple picks and I like Villeneauve. Don’t you?

 

[majormajor]

my point above is that I don’t evaluate this signing on Stevenson alone. We did get a couple picks and I like Villeneauve. Don’t you?

It's not relevant, we could have got those picks for Wennberg and still turned around and signed him today. And people would piss and moan about going back to Wennberg, but he'd play just fine, and we wouldn't have Stephenson's contract killing us for the last five years of it.

 

[seakraken]

It's not relevant, we could have got those picks for Wennberg and still turned around and signed him today. And people would piss and moan about going back to Wennberg, but he'd play just fine, and we wouldn't have Stephenson's contract killing us for the last five years of it.

Wait…sorry, can you explain how we get picks for Wennberg and still turn around and sign him?

Also, the picks received as comp for trading Wennberg is 100% relevant to evaluating this signing as it is a part of the strategy for trading Wennburg rather than signing him and letting him walk in free agency with no comp in a year.

 

[majormajor]

Wait…sorry, can you explain how we get picks for Wennberg and still turn around and sign him?

There's nothing stopping you from signing a player that you traded away at the previous deadline.

We've seen clubs do this many times before.

 

[kihei]

I'm not a fan of this signing at all. But if it is a choice between this and going back to Wennberg for a couple of years, I opt for the long-term pain. To me Wennberg just represents a brain-dead step backward; at least, Stephenson provides us with a very different, more advantageous presence on the third line, and, who knows, maybe he will age gracefully.

 

[GrungeHockey]

I really like the player, and like with Montour he makes us a better team, but it's a massive overpay. Both contracts were not good.

 

[Irie]

I would be super happy with this signing if it were for 3 years.

7 years is just Stoopid

How is it possible that Francis is on of the best GMs in the league when it comes to RFA contract negotiations and quite possibly the worst GM in the league when it comes to UFA contract negotiations?

 

[majormajor]

I would be super happy with this signing if it were for 3 years.

7 years is just Stoopid

How is it possible that Francis is on of the best GMs in the league when it comes to RFA contract negotiations and quite possibly the worst GM in the league when it comes to UFA contract negotiations?

RFAs are paid within a narrow band that is very formulaic. So you can just take your players and offer them what you're supposed to. Getting a good deal is just about holding your ground when agents/players try and act out, and being patient when fans get antsy for a signing. There is little the players can do if you don't react to that stuff.

UFAs require great pro scouting, you first of all have to know what the players are actually worth to your team and to the league more generally. I'm not sure if Francis has that. Maybe it's a problem in our FO. It could also be that he was just desperate, perhaps because of pressure from ownership to make a splash, and these were the best players he could get to sign here. So perhaps some combination of that, Francis not really knowing what players are worth, and not having another option if they asked for more and more.

 

[Irie]

RFAs are paid within a narrow band that is very formulaic. So you can just take your players and offer them what you're supposed to. Getting a good deal is just about holding your ground when agents/players try and act out, and being patient when fans get antsy for a signing. There is little the players can do if you don't react to that stuff.

UFAs require great pro scouting, you first of all have to know what the players are actually worth to your team and to the league more generally. I'm not sure if Francis has that. Maybe it's a problem in our FO. It could also be that he was just desperate, perhaps because of pressure from ownership to make a splash, and these were the best players he could get to sign here. So perhaps some combination of that, Francis not really knowing what players are worth, and not having another option if they asked for more and more.

It is a pattern, it isn't anything formulaic league wide or something that all GMs benefit or suffer from. Slavin, Pesce, Necas, McCann vs Oleksiak, Schwartz, Grubauer, Eberle, Montour, Stephenson...

He is extremely conservative with the deals he hands out to his RFAs, but acts like a drunken sailor on shore leave with UFAs, (even those that he is re-signing). Eberle wasn't getting anything near 5M from anyone this offseason, so why offer that on a multi year deal to a player his age?

 

[majormajor]

He is extremely conservative with the deals he hands out to his RFAs, but acts like a drunken sailor on shore leave with UFAs, (even those that he is re-signing). Eberle wasn't getting anything near 5M from anyone this offseason, so why offer that on a multi year deal to a player his age?

I think Eberle could have gotten the same $5m x 2 on the open market. Wennberg just got that exact deal, a bit more than Eberle.

RFAs really are more formula driven, especially second contracts. Most GMs are going to get the same result there. I didn't find that striking about Francis.

 

[The Marquis]

After sleeping on this, I really hope Stephenson proves everybody wrong and delivers for at least 4 of the years of this contract. The consensus is pretty much universally that it never should have exceeded 5.5, since that's what he's worth at what he's shown as his ceiling. There's a lot of evidence out there to support that, but the facts are, he's a Kraken and has played exactly zero games in a Kraken sweater. Let's see what he can do. If the Kraken make the playoffs for 3 straight years, I think I'd be happy.

 

[kihei]

Just did a very quick scan, so I may have missed something, but it looks like our immediate competitors for a playoff spot did very little to improve themselves through free agency. Calgary and Minnesota did some minor tinkering but St. Louis did virtually nothing while free agency hurt Vegas. Of those teams, I think we are the one that, on paper at least, can claim that we are currently better than we were last year.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

After sleeping on this, I really hope Stephenson proves everybody wrong and delivers for at least 4 of the years of this contract. The consensus is pretty much universally that it never should have exceeded 5.5, since that's what he's worth at what he's shown as his ceiling. There's a lot of evidence out there to support that, but the facts are, he's a Kraken and has played exactly zero games in a Kraken sweater. Let's see what he can do. If the Kraken make the playoffs for 3 straight years, I think I'd be happy.

I listened to ECH yesterday and they are at a terrible loss on how to justify this signing. They pretty much ripped Francis to shreds for the contract, without exactly blaming him outright.

I get it, but my thinking is similar to yours. Let's see how he does first.

 

[Fuhrious]

Just did a very quick scan, so I may have missed something, but it looks like our immediate competitors for a playoff spot did very little to improve themselves through free agency. Calgary and Minnesota did some minor tinkering but St. Louis did virtually nothing while free agency hurt Vegas. Of those teams, I think we are the one that, on paper at least, can claim that we are currently better than we were last year.

I think Utah improved themselves considerably, no?

 

[Irie]

I think Eberle could have gotten the same $5m x 2 on the open market. Wennberg just got that exact deal, a bit more than Eberle.

RFAs really are more formula driven, especially second contracts. Most GMs are going to get the same result there. I didn't find that striking about Francis.

Wennberg was grossly overpaid by a San Jose team with more cap space than they know what to do with and a huge need for another legitimate nhl center though. Grier is overpaying on short term deals to brings guys in they need. No one is overpaying to bring in a defensively challenged soft 34 year old winger on a multi year deal.

Contracts were crazy yesterday(with Francis leading that charge), but I do not see the fit for any team that would give Eberle 5M x 2, of course it only takes one GM and a momentary lapse of common sense....

As for Francis, if you do not see that most of his RFA contracts come in well under predicted value, and most of his UFA contracts come in far over predicted value, then we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[kihei]

I think Utah improved themselves considerably, no?

You're right, they did. But I just considered the teams that finished ahead of us last season.

 

[majormajor]

Wennberg was grossly overpaid by a San Jose team with more cap space than they know what to do with and a huge need for another legitimate nhl center though. Grier is overpaying on short term deals to brings guys in they need. No one is overpaying to bring in a defensively challenged soft 34 year old winger on a multi year deal.

Contracts were crazy yesterday(with Francis leading that charge), but I do not see the fit for any team that would give Eberle 5M x 2, of course it only takes one GM and a momentary lapse of common sense....

As for Francis, if you do not see that most of his RFA contracts come in well under predicted value, and most of his UFA contracts come in far over predicted value, then we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I'm going to simply disagree. In the general context of the contracts handed out yesterday, $5m x 2 for Eberle would not have raised eyebrows. Eberle is a soft player but he had one of his better defensive seasons last year (I double-checked and he had good numbers in each category). 44 pts is certainly more than enough for that money. David Perron is 36, and closer to an actual liability at 5v5, and he still got $4m x 2. His wheels are entirely gone, which is not the case with Eberle.

 

[Irie]

I'm going to simply disagree. In the general context of the contracts handed out yesterday, $5m x 2 for Eberle would not have raised eyebrows. Eberle is a soft player but he had one of his better defensive seasons last year (I double-checked and he had good numbers in each category). 44 pts is certainly more than enough for that money. David Perron is 36, and closer to an actual liability at 5v5, and he still got $4m x 2. His wheels are entirely gone, which is not the case with Eberle.

Perron actually outscored Eberle with nearly 20% less icetime playing mostly on the 3rd line in a shut down role with 56% DZone starts compared to Eberle's top 6 usage and 45% Dzone starts - and yet, Eberle got almost a 25% higher contract from Francis. (And Perron is actually less than a year older than Eberle, he is 35.)

But this is not about Eberle, that was just one small example. The main point was that if you look around the league, Francis tends to do better on nearly all of his RFA contracts than his peers. and he tends to do substantially worse than them when it comes to UFA signings.