Kraken 2024 Offseason chatter

[RainyCityHockey]

What contracts do people actually want to sign?

If we just say no to everyone then we'll be that team with $20m in cap space and 30th in the standings. Cap space is only helpful if you have an alternative plan for how to use it. So what is that plan?

Contracts for difference makers, not just more of the same.

Esepcially if we're talking about guys in their 30's also wanting a five year contract etc.

The plan would be, instead of handing out those conract to all those middling guys, to take on a contract or two and add some picks/prospects on top of it.

You might still be 30th in the league, but you would 1)draft pretty high to have a shot at potential game changing talent and 2) you could also try to restore those guys value(as others have done before) and try to get something else for them on top of it.

This, to me, seems way more of a useful strategie than just signing some middling guys and hoping something might click.

By doing so, you'd also have cap space and more picks/prospects in case a high end guy becomes available in a trade.
Cause right now, even if there's a guy available, I don't think the Kraken have the pieces to trade for such a guy, unless you're willing to include Beniers or Wright.

 

[kihei]

I'm not a fan of this parade of "middle six" veterans either, but I am trying not to be too judgmental and am waiting to see how RF handles this summer. He's in a tough place with an owner pressing him to win now. To me, he doesn't have many options that will make us a whole lot better in the short term. But he has to come up with something and that's what I am waiting to find out. If at the end of the summer, we are just a slightly tinkered with model of last year's team, than I will start thinking that he just might not be the right man for the job. I think initiative, imagination and some degree of risk are needed by RF right now, and I hope it happens.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

The Kraken have allowed Kyler Yamamoto to speak to other teams.

https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2024/06/rfa-notes-brannstrom-yamamoto-ylonen-mcdonough-shaw.html

Not a surprise here cause I doubt the Kraken will extend a qualifying offer to him and probably would only bring him back at a lesser deal than last season.

Edith says.

Friedman's wondering about Jeff Skinner for the Kraken

https://x.com/i/web/status/1806570933005766960

 

[kihei]

I can't recall where I read it but some (I think) decent source called Sinner one of the most selfish players in hockey with basically a one-dimensional offensive game. Doesn't exactly sound like a role model either.

 

[kihei]

I realize I basically say no to everything except Laine, though I realize I had to be talked into that idea kicking and screaming. As GM of the Kraken people would want to fire me because I would build through the draft and use cap space to take on bad contracts and acquire even more draft picks. That would ensure low finishes for a few years. Eventually, I might want to fire myself, though before I could, ownership would have terminated me.

Yet I have been really impressed by Mike Grier and his moves in San Jose, a much more active, take-risks GM than our guy. Though it goes against my inclinations, maybe that's the kind of guy we need. What all this tells me, though, is that Francis has a very difficult job to do and that my advice to him lacks real world relevance. He doesn't have the luxury of my kind of patience. So now I'm thinking I would vote to move up to Utah's spot to get Bulium. That looks like a smart move this morning. Call it an overnight change of heart.

 

[majormajor]

I realize I basically say no to everything except Laine, though I realize I had to be talked into that idea kicking and screaming. As GM of the Kraken people would want to fire me because I would build through the draft and use cap space to take on bad contracts and acquire even more draft picks. That would ensure low finishes for a few years.

Given where the team seems to be trending, I'm starting to see the appeal of that approach. A rebuild basically.

But with the cap jumping up, the returns for taking on cap dumps don't seem to be very good. Mikheyev for instance is basically a replacement level player right now, and paid $4m per for two more seasons. The Hawks took him in exchange for moving up from a 4th rounder to a 2nd rounder. That's not encouraging.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Given where the team seems to be trending, I'm starting to see the appeal of that approach. A rebuild basically.

But with the cap jumping up, the returns for taking on cap dumps don't seem to be very good. Mikheyev for instance is basically a replacement level player right now, and paid $4m per for two more seasons. The Hawks took him in exchange for moving up from a 4th rounder to a 2nd rounder. That's not encouraging.

I felt that was the approach to take right from the beginning. I think the first three years have Francis caught in a no-man's load. In my mind, he has basically lost two seasons of building the roster. If he goes with that approach now, it will likely take another 3-4 years for us to be competitive if we solely rely on the draft, which, I feel, will be longer than he would be employed by the Kraken.

If he still wants to go back to the draft strategy, move out Larsson, Gourde, etc., before the 1st round today and use that to grab some more high-end prospects. Will speed up the "re-build" by a year atleast. But I don't see him doing that because he has to show management that he is trying to be "competitive", which means the only way he moves them is at the TDL if we are out of the playoff race.

 

[kihei]

^^^^^^^^^^
Yep. The approach works only if management is on board, and ours isn't, it would appear (as an East Coast fan of the team, one unfamiliar with Seattle's sports scene, I don't have a "feel" for local pressures, so I am just going on what seems to be the case). In reality, I don't think Francis would last long at all if he took this approach.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

I can't recall where I read it but some (I think) decent source called Sinner one of the most selfish players in hockey with basically a one-dimensional offensive game. Doesn't exactly sound like a role model either.

Though, he's good friends with Brandon Tanev....

Given where the team seems to be trending, I'm starting to see the appeal of that approach. A rebuild basically.

But with the cap jumping up, the returns for taking on cap dumps don't seem to be very good. Mikheyev for instance is basically a replacement level player right now, and paid $4m per for two more seasons. The Hawks took him in exchange for moving up from a 4th rounder to a 2nd rounder. That's not encouraging.

Well, he should've done that from the start when he said right after the expansion draft that this is "more of a traditional built of 3 - 5 years".

And then, of course, he started signing middling guys to be "competitive".

Overall I still think you can take that approach and try to bring in guys that are overpaid but might be able to bounce back and be traded for something else, even if you had to retain some money.

Though, that's something you won't see before the next guy akes over...

 

[majormajor]

Well, he should've done that from the start when he said right after the expansion draft that this is "more of a traditional built of 3 - 5 years".

And then, of course, he started signing middling guys to be "competitive".

Overall I still think you can take that approach and try to bring in guys that are overpaid but might be able to bounce back and be traded for something else, even if you had to retain some money.

Though, that's something you won't see before the next guy akes over...

How much of a difference does it make to you where the team finishes in the standings, in terms of how you evaluate the strategies?

Because the difference in asset returns comparing the two strategies - taking on bad salary for picks and moving them for picks later vs signing middling guys and moving them for picks later - isn't necessarily that big.

Though maybe you have an example in mind where the return would be much bigger. It's hard doing these discussion entirely in abstract terms.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

How much of a difference does it make to you where the team finishes in the standings, in terms of how you evaluate the strategies?

Because the difference in asset returns comparing the two strategies - taking on bad salary for picks and moving them for picks later vs signing middling guys and moving them for picks later - isn't necessarily that big.

Though maybe you have an example in mind where the return would be much bigger. It's hard doing these discussion entirely in abstract terms.

If he does that from the start you're in the flat cap era where team shad to pay through the nose to get rid off contracts.

Also, you have a top ten(or better) pick in the 2023 draft, which didn't just have Bedard in it, but a pretty big number of guys who would go at least #2 in this years draft.

Giving exact examples, of course, is tough and it's more about the whole approach.

At the end of the day it comes down to what I've been talking about for some time.

Make a decision on what direction you want to go and go for it, go really hard for it.

We're doing an in between thing that at least 95% of the time will lead you nowhere besides the middle of the pack.

 

[majormajor]

If he does that from the start you're in the flat cap era where team shad to pay through the nose to get rid off contracts.

Also, you have a top ten(or better) pick in the 2023 draft, which didn't just have Bedard in it, but a pretty big number of guys who would go at least #2 in this years draft.

Giving exact examples, of course, is tough and it's more about the whole approach.

At the end of the day it comes down to what I've been talking about for some time.

Make a decision on what direction you want to go and go for it, go really hard for it.

We're doing an in between thing that at least 95% of the time will lead you nowhere besides the middle of the pack.

I think we'll be closer to the bottom than the middle next year.

And I don't agree at all with that 95% number. We've discussed this before, so many of the quintessential mid-teams ended up not being that or even ended up winning cups.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

I think we'll be closer to the bottom than the middle next year.

And I don't agree at all with that 95% number. We've discussed this before, so many of the quintessential mid-teams ended up not being that or even ended up winning cups.

And I've not agreed with that given that the most "let's stay mid cause it might work" example in St. Louis was basically pure luck given that the only reason they won cause their AHL-Backup Goaltender went nuts and on an insane run.

Since then Binnington has been back down to earth and the Blues are doing what they've always done, which is being mid and goint nowhere.

etc.

I just don't agree with you here and that's why I said we have to agree to disagree on this one.

BTW: Looking back at the last 15 years(the salary cap era started in 2005 after the lockout), that's what you got.

2009 - Pittsburgh - Crosby, Malkin, Fleury drafted 1,2 and 1
2010 - Chicago - Kane, Toews etc.
2011 - Boston - fine, I'll give that one to you
2012 - L.A. - Doughty, Kopitar, Johnson etc.
2013 - Chicago - see 2010
2014 - L.A. - see 2012
2015 - Chicago - see 2010 and 2013
2016 - Pittsburgh - see 2009
2017 - Pittsburgh - see 2009 and 2016
2018 - Washington - Ovi, Backstrom etc.
2019 - St. Louis - well, yeah
2020 - Tampa Bay - Stamkos, Hedman, Drouin(3rd OVR, traded for Sergachev) etc.
2021 - Tampa Bay - see 2020
2022 - Colorado - MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen, Makar, Byram etc.
2023 - Vegas - well, they got loads of picks to trade for Eichel etc.
2024 - Florida - Barkov, Eckblad, traded for Tkachuk, Reinhardt etc.

I know you don't have to go all in and just play AHL level dudes for three to five years but believing that going the St. Louis route is a great idea just doesn't make sense.
At leat to me.

 

[majormajor]

St. Louis was one of many examples.

The team they beat in the finals that year was another supposed stuck in the middle club just a couple years prior.

Do you really want me to go and list them all again? We did this for hours last year.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

St. Louis was one of many examples.

The team they beat in the finals that year was another supposed stuck in the middle club just a couple years prior.

Do you really want me to go and list them all again? We did this for hours last year.

Do you really look at this list and try to make an argument for "middling" and hoopefully going somewhere?

Again, we just don't agree on this one and I'd rather a team decides on what it wants to do instead of being in no mans land, hoping to maybe do something at some point in time.

 

[Fuhrious]

These pre-draft not-even-on-the-clock trades to jockey a position or three are kind of odd, huh?

 

[kihei]

These pre-draft not-even-on-the-clock trades to jockey a position or three are kind of odd, huh?

Could be a smart play in some instances, though. I can see the logic of it, especially in Grier's case. If you wait until the draft, your potential partner might get cold feet seeing who gets picked where. Make the play now, especially if you think the teams just in front of you might covet the same player or players that you do. A good chess move in that case.

 

[dylanmacarthur]

I felt that was the approach to take right from the beginning. I think the first three years have Francis caught in a no-man's load. In my mind, he has basically lost two seasons of building the roster. If he goes with that approach now, it will likely take another 3-4 years for us to be competitive if we solely rely on the draft, which, I feel, will be longer than he would be employed by the Kraken.

If he still wants to go back to the draft strategy, move out Larsson, Gourde, etc., before the 1st round today and use that to grab some more high-end prospects. Will speed up the "re-build" by a year atleast. But I don't see him doing that because he has to show management that he is trying to be "competitive", which means the only way he moves them is at the TDL if we are out of the playoff race.

Glad to see you coming around

 

[Fuhrious]

The Texier trade seems like a tidy bit of business by STL…how come Francis is never in on these?

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Glad to see you coming around

Well. In my mind Francis should be on the hot seat based on what he does this off-season. I still love his drafting but have little sense on which way he is going to build the team. The lack of direction is concerning to me.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Guentzel re-signs with Carolina at 8x8.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1806820823786729956

Also, Reinhart seems to be re-signing with the Pantheres as well.

Therefore Stamkos is the "big fish" in this years free agency....

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Guentzel re-signs with Carolina at 8x8.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1806820823786729956

Also, Reinhart seems to be re-signing with the Pantheres as well.

Therefore Stamkos is the "big fish" in this years free agency....

The only reason I am disappointed they didn't get to FA is because I was hoping that would just add to the forwards that look to be traded this off-season.

 

[Fuhrious]

Quick trade Oleksiak to Utah!

Maybe Dumoulin for a case of stick tape?

 

[RainyCityHockey]

OK, so the draft is done and free agency starts in less than 48 hours.

The Kraken have been linked to Jeff Skinner and ???
And they might also be a team interested in trading for Patrick Laine.

Anything else we might be able to expect?

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

OK, so the draft is done and free agency starts in less than 48 hours.

The Kraken have been linked to Jeff Skinner and ???
And they might also be a team interested in trading for Patrick Laine.

Anything else we might be able to expect?

I see him signing Skinner or Duclair maybe. And then see if he can swing a trade for Laine though I expect we get outbid there.

I heard our name in the Necas conversation but I can’t see Francis giving up what will be required.