Kraken 2024 Offseason chatter

[RainyCityHockey]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1803422439679901847

I guess we only have to start talking about stuff on these boards and all of a sudden Elliotte Friedman has "people telling him, that you have to watch Seattle on this one".

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Quite a few trades going on today. Maybe Francis decided to sleep in today ..

 

[dylanmacarthur]

Laine I think is a risk worth taking. We have the cap space to burn, and the chance to add elite talent (even with high risk of availability issues) for our younger guys to learn from is huge.

Hopefully Francis is willing to be bold and take a little risk here. I'm sure he's getting ownership pressure.

 

[The Marquis]

It's helpful we've had big trades with CBJ before, so it's one of those clubs who will play ball with Francis. That's nice.

 

[Cisse]

Laine is a big name out there but as a Finn I would like us to try and get Teuvo Teräväinen. He is playing better and better every season and he would add for us in offense, defense and in leadership.
And I would like us to go after Hurricanes Brady Skjei too. Hurricanes are dealing with their salary cap and they are probably ready for several moves during the summer.
Another D-man I would like to see playing for us is Jani Hakanpää. A free agent who would help us a lot in our power kill and stop us giving so many easy goals in front of our net. Dallas coaching actually ask Hakanpää and Lindell how they should play their power kill. That says something.

 

[wewantyoursoul]

I know he's not the high end talent that everyone wants... But I'm hoping Kartye will be with the Kraken well into the future. I love that guy and his attitude.

 

[Dead Coyote]

You make some fair points but for context my ENTIRE point was that Laine does not fetch much trade value bc of his salary and performance below his previous level. Go listen or look at any insider discussion on this and they say a trade will be tough bc that contract carries close to a negative value.

The initial point I responded to is that Laine will be seen as much more valuable after other free agents who are high end ask for 9/10 mil and that he will fetch a major trade price - which is just false based on any analysis or info out there.
Thus, the most likely scenario here is a bad contract for the same. Let’s see what happens and whose take is closer to reality, and the reality is Buffalo is not trading for an 8 mil Laine anyways…nor should the kraken.

They should not want to add him as an 9 mil player - they could get a very good 2c and another good piece with that much cap. Only a top 10 legit winger should be getting that much ( which Laine currently is not). Now if cbj retains half we can start talking …but still is that the player we should be investing in? They need a truly elite player or 2…and winger is the least valued/easiest to acquire position

The main difference is still that Laine is 6 years younger than Skinner and the things that have plagued him haven't been on ice problems like Skinner has had.

I agree that Laine doesn't have a ton of value in trade right now, but he definitely has more than pending UFA's like Reinhart or Lindholm. And he definitely has way more than Skinner, who, right or wrong, there have been buyout rumours about. I don't think Columbus will entertain any offers like a dump for dump. It makes no sense to sell low on Laine when he's been cleared and is still only 26 and signed for another year after this one. It's certainly possible teams won't pay more than that for him, but this is a classic case where you might be able to get someone with elite talent for a much cheaper price than you normally would.

I'm sure that there will at the very least be some teams kicking the bucket on his trade availability and seeing if Columbus is willing to part with him for a couple of decent to good assets or someone that is of similar age and potential. He's not gonna get the NHL24 trade package with 5 1sts in it, but I also don't think Columbus will trade him for nothing. I could easily see guys like Crouse, Necas, Chychrun etc being dangled for him.

8.7 is 10% of the cap which I think is just about right for a player of Laine's caliber when healthy. If he achieves his potential, it would be a huge steal for him. If he just continues to be a ppg 30-40 goal scorer each year, he still probably gets upwards of 10m as a UFA in 2 years. The risk is that he doesn't play much again or that he keeps playing at the level he did this year. I don't think that's a very high risk. Definitely not certain.

I don't know if he fits Seattle, because I do think they're pretty well set on the wings, and a 2C *would* be better to get (although this doesn't disqualify Laine- as @majormajor said i think, he has been tried at center before because of the way he plays the game from the middle and high point in both zones) but if you want elite talent at a cheap price now, there's not really any other way to get it.

Lindholm, Reinhart and Stamkos are the best centers on the market, but how much do you want to pay 2 players on the verge of being on the wrong side of 30, and one player who is probably not likely to even hit the market but is even older? You already have a pretty aging core outside of Beniers and Wright, Dunn is getting up there (but is still younger than all the other aformentioned players and is also a d-man) and then there's pretty much literally no one except Tolvanen who projects as a solid roster player for another 5-10 years.

Seattle is relying heavily on either a) winning something before their core explodes into old age or b) a frankly huge amount of their prospects making the jump within the next couple of years and being productive players.

I don't really think either of those things are likely even though I really like the prospect pool. On paper it's definitely possible to win a cup with this sort of roster if you overachieve and inject some elite talent into the roster or if Daccord continues to grow and becomes a legitimate vezina caliber goalie every year, but it's also insanely risky to be giving out long term contracts to free agents in UFA that are highly expensive and to also have most of your core expire in 2-3 years where a lot of them will either potentially no longer be worth it or want raises only contributes to that problem more.

Francis has used his cap space really well on a lot of depth and if Beniers and Wright both improve in the next year (likely IMO) they have a legit shot in the year after that, but after that it'll get a lot more difficult and their cap space will get eaten up when they have Gourde, Tanev, Larsson and Dumoulin expire at the same time (and potentially Schwartz and Tatar again if they give them a 1yr deal) and will probably want to upgrade most of those players anyways.

The real crunch will be in 2026 and 2027/28 when all of their ELC's expire as well as literally every quality player they have that hasn't been re-signed before then.

I think Laine, while he himself may not be perfect, is exactly the type of player they need to acquire to be competitive, they need more youth and players just hitting their prime, not more guys who are starting to decline and are looking to get paid from one last contract.

And those guys aren't really possible to get in FA. Marner is the closest but he's going to be 28 if/when he hits the market. Matthews will be 29. Rantanen 28. Kaprisov 29. Q Hughes will be 27 and Makar will be 28 but do we actually think those guys will hit the open market at that time?

Like there really isn't a single player who will be younger than 27 when they become a UFA (I think the closest are Hughes or Tkachuk) let alone an ELITE player. To be fair Laine will be 28 but if you trade for him now you get 2 more seasons out of him and he's vastly more likely to re-sign with you.

Usually the only way to obtain guys like that are through trade or draft. I don't think there's any elite players that are being shopped right now, but the closest is probably Laine followed by Necas, and then Marner if you don't mind the age and whatever potential baggage there is with him (this isn't saying Laine and Necas are better than Marner, this is saying that they're younger and entering their prime while Marner is already in his).

I think for that reason and many others, Laine is valuable as a trade piece and I wouldn't be surprised if Seattle offers CBJ something for him. I've done enough rambling about shit though, at the end of the day I think Laine is way more valuable than UFA's looking to get paid, it would be wise to at least kick the tires on him (which I'm sure Francis is doing) and that if the cost isn't too much he'd be a great piece for Seattle and would elevate their game a whole bunch. Also pretty damn far away from Columbus, and I know there was some speculation that part of the problem with Laine is being reminded of his father.

As someone who lost her father at 23, I completely get that and you can't really overstate how big of a deal that is. But it's just speculation.

I'd still rather much see Laine than anyone Seattle could get in FA this year. Adding Laine and Necas in one off season for peanuts on the dollar would be an incredible move by Francis, solves your 2C issue, insulates Wright for another year, and lets you build a core instead of just a bunch of guys getting older and less effective and a bunch of prospects who haven't done anything in the NHL. I doubt that happens, but it's at least a possibility and would be insanely savvy if it was pulled off. Both guys reportedly want out, Necas wants to be a C badly and has already said he won't sign with the Canes, and Laine has other things driving down his value.

Laine is a big name out there but as a Finn I would like us to try and get Teuvo Teräväinen. He is playing better and better every season and he would add for us in offense, defense and in leadership.
And I would like us to go after Hurricanes Brady Skjei too. Hurricanes are dealing with their salary cap and they are probably ready for several moves during the summer.
Another D-man I would like to see playing for us is Jani Hakanpää. A free agent who would help us a lot in our power kill and stop us giving so many easy goals in front of our net. Dallas coaching actually ask Hakanpää and Lindell how they should play their power kill. That says something.

Hakanpaa is pretty old but would be a great depth signing for cheap. He's very underrated defensively, I'd so far as to say he might be a better Larsson. Similar players but Hakanpaa will probably come cheaper by a bit, would be a great signing.

 

[majormajor]

Laine is a big name out there but as a Finn I would like us to try and get Teuvo Teräväinen. He is playing better and better every season and he would add for us in offense, defense and in leadership.
And I would like us to go after Hurricanes Brady Skjei too. Hurricanes are dealing with their salary cap and they are probably ready for several moves during the summer.
Another D-man I would like to see playing for us is Jani Hakanpää. A free agent who would help us a lot in our power kill and stop us giving so many easy goals in front of our net. Dallas coaching actually ask Hakanpää and Lindell how they should play their power kill. That says something.

I've been curious if Teravainen would have more to give outside of Carolina's forecheck heavy system. But I am cautious with him precisely because I don't have the sense that he is getting better and better every year. I'm not sure what you're basing that on.

 

[majormajor]

The main difference is still that Laine is 6 years younger than Skinner and the things that have plagued him haven't been on ice problems like Skinner has had.

I agree that Laine doesn't have a ton of value in trade right now, but he definitely has more than pending UFA's like Reinhart or Lindholm. And he definitely has way more than Skinner, who, right or wrong, there have been buyout rumours about. I don't think Columbus will entertain any offers like a dump for dump. It makes no sense to sell low on Laine when he's been cleared and is still only 26 and signed for another year after this one. It's certainly possible teams won't pay more than that for him, but this is a classic case where you might be able to get someone with elite talent for a much cheaper price than you normally would.

I'm sure that there will at the very least be some teams kicking the bucket on his trade availability and seeing if Columbus is willing to part with him for a couple of decent to good assets or someone that is of similar age and potential. He's not gonna get the NHL24 trade package with 5 1sts in it, but I also don't think Columbus will trade him for nothing. I could easily see guys like Crouse, Necas, Chychrun etc being dangled for him.

8.7 is 10% of the cap which I think is just about right for a player of Laine's caliber when healthy. If he achieves his potential, it would be a huge steal for him. If he just continues to be a ppg 30-40 goal scorer each year, he still probably gets upwards of 10m as a UFA in 2 years. The risk is that he doesn't play much again or that he keeps playing at the level he did this year. I don't think that's a very high risk. Definitely not certain.

I don't know if he fits Seattle, because I do think they're pretty well set on the wings, and a 2C *would* be better to get (although this doesn't disqualify Laine- as @majormajor said i think, he has been tried at center before because of the way he plays the game from the middle and high point in both zones) but if you want elite talent at a cheap price now, there's not really any other way to get it.

Lindholm, Reinhart and Stamkos are the best centers on the market, but how much do you want to pay 2 players on the verge of being on the wrong side of 30, and one player who is probably not likely to even hit the market but is even older? You already have a pretty aging core outside of Beniers and Wright, Dunn is getting up there (but is still younger than all the other aformentioned players and is also a d-man) and then there's pretty much literally no one except Tolvanen who projects as a solid roster player for another 5-10 years.

Seattle is relying heavily on either a) winning something before their core explodes into old age or b) a frankly huge amount of their prospects making the jump within the next couple of years and being productive players.

I don't really think either of those things are likely even though I really like the prospect pool. On paper it's definitely possible to win a cup with this sort of roster if you overachieve and inject some elite talent into the roster or if Daccord continues to grow and becomes a legitimate vezina caliber goalie every year, but it's also insanely risky to be giving out long term contracts to free agents in UFA that are highly expensive and to also have most of your core expire in 2-3 years where a lot of them will either potentially no longer be worth it or want raises only contributes to that problem more.

Francis has used his cap space really well on a lot of depth and if Beniers and Wright both improve in the next year (likely IMO) they have a legit shot in the year after that, but after that it'll get a lot more difficult and their cap space will get eaten up when they have Gourde, Tanev, Larsson and Dumoulin expire at the same time (and potentially Schwartz and Tatar again if they give them a 1yr deal) and will probably want to upgrade most of those players anyways.

The real crunch will be in 2026 and 2027/28 when all of their ELC's expire as well as literally every quality player they have that hasn't been re-signed before then.

I think Laine, while he himself may not be perfect, is exactly the type of player they need to acquire to be competitive, they need more youth and players just hitting their prime, not more guys who are starting to decline and are looking to get paid from one last contract.

And those guys aren't really possible to get in FA. Marner is the closest but he's going to be 28 if/when he hits the market. Matthews will be 29. Rantanen 28. Kaprisov 29. Q Hughes will be 27 and Makar will be 28 but do we actually think those guys will hit the open market at that time?

Like there really isn't a single player who will be younger than 27 when they become a UFA (I think the closest are Hughes or Tkachuk) let alone an ELITE player. To be fair Laine will be 28 but if you trade for him now you get 2 more seasons out of him and he's vastly more likely to re-sign with you.

Usually the only way to obtain guys like that are through trade or draft. I don't think there's any elite players that are being shopped right now, but the closest is probably Laine followed by Necas, and then Marner if you don't mind the age and whatever potential baggage there is with him (this isn't saying Laine and Necas are better than Marner, this is saying that they're younger and entering their prime while Marner is already in his).

I think for that reason and many others, Laine is valuable as a trade piece and I wouldn't be surprised if Seattle offers CBJ something for him. I've done enough rambling about shit though, at the end of the day I think Laine is way more valuable than UFA's looking to get paid, it would be wise to at least kick the tires on him (which I'm sure Francis is doing) and that if the cost isn't too much he'd be a great piece for Seattle and would elevate their game a whole bunch. Also pretty damn far away from Columbus, and I know there was some speculation that part of the problem with Laine is being reminded of his father.

As someone who lost her father at 23, I completely get that and you can't really overstate how big of a deal that is. But it's just speculation.

I'd still rather much see Laine than anyone Seattle could get in FA this year. Adding Laine and Necas in one off season for peanuts on the dollar would be an incredible move by Francis, solves your 2C issue, insulates Wright for another year, and lets you build a core instead of just a bunch of guys getting older and less effective and a bunch of prospects who haven't done anything in the NHL. I doubt that happens, but it's at least a possibility and would be insanely savvy if it was pulled off. Both guys reportedly want out, Necas wants to be a C badly and has already said he won't sign with the Canes, and Laine has other things driving down his value.

I think there is more risk than you acknowledged that Laine won't play well or will be injured for the bulk of this coming season. He might be great, but it could also go badly.

I'll disagree somewhat on your thinking that Seattle can be competitive in the near term, I think it's kind of falling apart and we have to be thinking about who the next core is going to be in a few years. And oddly enough that's the rationale for Laine. He's young enough to be part of it if he works in Seattle, and if he doesn't work, well the team isn't doing anything in the next two years anyways.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I think there is more risk than you acknowledged that Laine won't play well or will be injured for the bulk of this coming season. He might be great, but it could also go badly.

I'll disagree somewhat on your thinking that Seattle can be competitive in the near term, I think it's kind of falling apart and we have to be thinking about who the next core is going to be in a few years. And oddly enough that's the rationale for Laine. He's young enough to be part of it if he works in Seattle, and if he doesn't work, well the team isn't doing anything in the next two years anyways.

I'm going to sound negative here, but I don't see us getting better in the next two seasons unless Francis has a really successful off-season, adding talent via trades or UFA. Wright is coming along well and promising but he is just 1 player. Larsson, Bjorkstrand and Gourde are 3 guys who have contracts expiring at the end of 2024-25, 2025-26. Need to re-sign them or replace talent via trades, UFA's or our own prospects.

 

[Dead Coyote]

I think there is more risk than you acknowledged that Laine won't play well or will be injured for the bulk of this coming season. He might be great, but it could also go badly.

I'll disagree somewhat on your thinking that Seattle can be competitive in the near term, I think it's kind of falling apart and we have to be thinking about who the next core is going to be in a few years. And oddly enough that's the rationale for Laine. He's young enough to be part of it if he works in Seattle, and if he doesn't work, well the team isn't doing anything in the next two years anyways.

I agree that Seattle probably won't be competitive, but all they really need is better goaltending, progress from Beniers and Wright, and another elite player. Easier said than done, and considering the age of Wright and Beniers I think it'd be much better if they just kept their assets and sucked, but somehow I don't see ownership or Francis really going for that.

I think even if Laine puts up a 50pt year, which would be his worst ever, he'd still be a valuable guy to have on the team and it's important for Seattle to get younger. I do also think if they somehow got Laine and Necas they would at least be cup contenders for a couple of years. Laine, Necas, Beniers, McCann and whoever else on their roster they plop into the top 6 would be very solid IMO.

This all assumes that Wright and Beniers progress, but I'm pretty confident they will. I'm also pretty confident that Laine's play won't be impacted at all. He could still get injured or miss time, but when he does play I think he'll be PPG.

I outlined that salary wise it's extremely likely they're going to either overpay some guys to keep them before UFA or that they're going to have a whole new roster in 5 years and probably suck, but they do have a very small window to hold onto guys and make a push. IDK if they'll do any of that, it's just a possibility. After 2 years they will almost definitely start running into problems salary wise and whatever window they had will close unless we see some stellar play out of prospects.

 

[Fuhrious]

I agree that Seattle probably won't be competitive, but all they really need is better goaltending, progress from Beniers and Wright, and another elite player. Easier said than done, and considering the age of Wright and Beniers I think it'd be much better if they just kept their assets and sucked, but somehow I don't see ownership or Francis really going for that.

I think even if Laine puts up a 50pt year, which would be his worst ever, he'd still be a valuable guy to have on the team and it's important for Seattle to get younger. I do also think if they somehow got Laine and Necas they would at least be cup contenders for a couple of years. Laine, Necas, Beniers, McCann and whoever else on their roster they plop into the top 6 would be very solid IMO.

This all assumes that Wright and Beniers progress, but I'm pretty confident they will. I'm also pretty confident that Laine's play won't be impacted at all. He could still get injured or miss time, but when he does play I think he'll be PPG.

I outlined that salary wise it's extremely likely they're going to either overpay some guys to keep them before UFA or that they're going to have a whole new roster in 5 years and probably suck, but they do have a very small window to hold onto guys and make a push. IDK if they'll do any of that, it's just a possibility. After 2 years they will almost definitely start running into problems salary wise and whatever window they had will close unless we see some stellar play out of prospects.

D’Accord posted a Sv% rivaling Swayman and Shesterkin last season. Goaltending isn’t their problem (outside of Grubauer’s boat anchor contract, anyway)

 

[gstommylee]

D’Accord posted a Sv% rivaling Swayman and Shesterkin last season. Goaltending isn’t their problem (outside of Grubauer’s boat anchor contract, anyway)

Gru's contract never prevented the team from doing anything. We have 22m or so cap space open now and more will get open for the 25-26 season.

 

[The Marquis]

Gru's contract never prevented the team from doing anything. We have 22m or so cap space open now and more will get open for the 25-26 season.

It’s big for how he’s played, but you aren’t wrong. We’d be paying a starting goalie about that much or more, and a backup about what Daccord is being paid. I think we all just wish the guy getting paid more was the better of the two and the second guy had D’accords stats

 

[Dead Coyote]

D’Accord posted a Sv% rivaling Swayman and Shesterkin last season. Goaltending isn’t their problem (outside of Grubauer’s boat anchor contract, anyway)

Absolutely, but it was also his first and only year playing full time. Plus I mean mostly in the playoffs. I dunno if he's good enough to carry the Kraken far in the playoffs, which is the kind of goaltending they would need right now, I think. Like Price, or Roy, or Hasek or Vasi level goaltending. Is he good enough for that? He certainly could be, I haven't watched him enough.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Quite a few trades going on today. Maybe Francis decided to sleep in today ..

Well, if the trade "price" was Pierre-Luc Dubois I really loved Ronnie being tucked in tight and taking that extra round of sleep.....

 

[Cisse]

I've been curious if Teravainen would have more to give outside of Carolina's forecheck heavy system. But I am cautious with him precisely because I don't have the sense that he is getting better and better every year. I'm not sure what you're basing that on.

I watch a lot Hurricanes games and mostly concentrate on Aho and Teräväinen. Teräväinen has a great hockey IQ and does a lot that don't show in points and statistics. He is a versatile player that is very well used both in power play and power kill, doesn't take unnecessary penalties and doesn't make many mistakes.

 

[majormajor]

I watch a lot Hurricanes games and mostly concentrate on Aho and Teräväinen. Teräväinen has a great hockey IQ and does a lot that don't show in points and statistics. He is a versatile player that is very well used both in power play and power kill, doesn't take unnecessary penalties and doesn't make many mistakes.

That's good to hear, if we sign him that is. I put Teravainen forward here as a skilled upgrade for us that wouldn't cost a fortune.

 

[tank44]

Another D-man I would like to see playing for us is Jani Hakanpää. A free agent who would help us a lot in our power kill and stop us giving so many easy goals in front of our net. Dallas coaching actually ask Hakanpää and Lindell how they should play their power kill. That says something.

I'd be down for Hakanpaa! He was a force in the playoffs against the Kraken last year and again this year.

 

[rsteen]

Well, if the trade "price" was Pierre-Luc Dubois I really loved Ronnie being tucked in tight and taking that extra round of sleep.....

I'm sure PLD will be fine once he gets a fresh start on his 4th NHL team!

 

[RainyCityHockey]

It seems like new Blue Jackets GM Wadell wants a "hockey trade" when it comes to Laine.

Blue Jackets Notes: Fourth Overall Pick, Laine, Hartley

The Blue Jackets are open for business regarding their fourth overall pick in next week's draft, GM and president of …

www.prohockeyrumors.com

Wouldn't Jaden Schwartz be a great culture type guy in Columbus?

I'm sure PLD will be fine once he gets a fresh start on his 4th NHL team!

I think it's that NMC kicking in which will really unlock all of his abilities...

 

[GrungeHockey]

I'm sure PLD will be fine once he gets a fresh start on his 4th NHL team!

This is the real reason Washington bought CapFriendly, they were planning this deal and didn't want anybody to be able to look up his contract in a few years.

Crazy move. Maybe Ovi will get Putin to threaten PLD to play.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I think Pagnotta has got better with rumors over the last few years. Excerpt from his article (link below).

Seattle seems to be a team to watch. Kraken GM Ron Francis doesn’t let much out, but word around the NHL is he’s pushing for a goal-scoring forward. As I reported on NHL Network yesterday, they’ve been tied to Martin Necas and Patrik Laine. I also wonder about Trevor Zegras.

Ullmark trade talks picking up — The Fourth Period

Trade talks involving Boston Bruins goalie Linus Ullmark have picked up steam, as he could be the next big goalie to move, reports David Pagnotta.

www.thefourthperiod.com

 

[RainyCityHockey]

I think Pagnotta has got better with rumors over the last few years. Excerpt from his article (link below).

Ullmark trade talks picking up — The Fourth Period

Trade talks involving Boston Bruins goalie Linus Ullmark have picked up steam, as he could be the next big goalie to move, reports David Pagnotta.

www.thefourthperiod.com

All of those would make some sense and it would be interesting how a trade for each of those guys would look like.

BTW: If we do get Zegras there might even be that #8 pick in play.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

All of those would make some sense and it would be interesting how a trade for each of those guys would look like.

BTW: If we do get Zegras there might even be that #8 pick in play.

I have not followed Zegras as much, but I have always heard/read of him as more of an offensive-only winger. He will definitely put people in seats for the Kraken, fits the age of our young players and has a respectable AAV for the next 2 seasons after which he is an arbitration eligible RFA.

If our 8th is in play for Zegras, wouldn't you think that would also be the case for Necas? Or do you think Zegras is going to be more expensive because of the reasons stated above?