Kovalchuk: 4 Goals today

[VanIslander]

Alfredsson, Jagr and Gagne are all at the tops of the league along with Heatley in +/- among forwards THIS season (Sakic has had monster +/- seasons too, in the past).

There's a 36 goal difference between Kovalchuk and the top players this season. That's a lot of games lost with Kovalchuk on the ice.

Anyways, the main point was.... let's not make too much of the four goals against Latvia, k?

 

[#37]

let's not make too much of the four goals against Latvia, k?

Right, because everyone scores 4 goals against them...

 

[Ovechkin_mvp]

Alfredsson, Jagr and Gagne are all at the tops of the league along with Heatley in +/- among forwards THIS season (Sakic has had monster +/- seasons too, in the past).

There's a 36 goal difference between Kovalchuk and the top players this season. That's a lot of games lost with Kovalchuk on the ice.

Anyways, the main point was.... let's not make too much of the four goals against Latvia, k?

You really lost me there.

That no superstar thing................

I think, I made my point

 

[Bank Shot]

Alfredsson, Jagr and Gagne are all at the tops of the league along with Heatley in +/- among forwards THIS season (Sakic has had monster +/- seasons too, in the past).

There's a 36 goal difference between Kovalchuk and the top players this season. That's a lot of games lost with Kovalchuk on the ice.

Anyways, the main point was.... let's not make too much of the four goals against Latvia, k?

Yes good point. I now see that those player's +/- are much higher because they are way better players then Kovalchuk. I am sure the defense and goaltending on their teams has nothing to do with it.

 

[artilector]

OK, Ovechkin_mvp, don't take it so personally with Kovy. He's a great scorer, but he has plenty of room for improvement as far as working hard and playing smart, I think you'll agree with me, eh? It was a great scoring display today, lets hope he plays well in the final round.

 

[VanIslander]

He's a great scorer, but he has plenty of room for improvement as far as working hard and playing smart, I think you'll agree with me, eh? It was a great scoring display today, lets hope he plays well in the final round.

I think we all agree with this, don't we?

 

[Ovechkin_mvp]

OK, Ovechkin_mvp, don't take it so personally with Kovy. He's a great scorer, but he has plenty of room for improvement as far as working hard and playing smart, I think you'll agree with me, eh? It was a great scoring display today, lets hope he plays well in the final round.

Saying that the guy is not a superstar because of his +/- on a great DEFENSIVE team like Thrashers is simply "SMART".

anyways, following that logic, Mario, Sakic, Karya and Naslund are just stars, not superstars, we'll leave it at that.

P.S: Sorry, but I am taking it personally.
We are talking Kovalchuk here, not some second rate player.

 

[artilector]

As far as +/-, it obviously does not always tell the story, but it can't be ignored.
At -12, Kovy has the worst +/- on ATL, which is basically a .500 team.
The comparison with Crosby, Sakic, Kariya, Naslund is good because all these players have not had dominant seasons. They are all great, but not enough to carry their teams on their shoulders. At this point, this category fits Kovalchuk.

Want to know what is great? At the risk of beating a dead horse into bloody pulp, Ovechkin is E (2nd highest among players with any significant ice-time) on Washington, which is one of the worst teams in the league.

Again, Kovy is my 2nd favorite player, but I think we gotta be realistic about where he's at as a player. Fantastic scorer, dominant at times, but still not on that Jagr-Forsberg-Messier-Yzerman (in different ways) level of being able to put a team on his shoulders. I hope, of course, that he gets there..

 

[artilector]

Saying that the guy is not a superstar because of his +/- on a great DEFENSIVE team like Thrashers is simply "SMART".

anyways, following that logic, Mario, Sakic, Karya and Naslund are just stars, not superstars, we'll leave it at that.

P.S: Sorry, but I am taking it personally.
We are talking Kovalchuk here, not some second rate player.

Terms like "superstars" have to be qualified, so you have to be sure of your definition before you go on attack . To me a superstar is a player who can dominate a game against the toughest opponents, put the team on his back, play hard on D when needed... if a player is just showing signs of doing that, he's a "star". So I would say:

Superstars: Grezky, Mario, Messier, Yzerman, Forsberg, Jagr, maybe Sakic(in his prime), maybe Fedorov(in his prime),
Stars: many, and Kovy is one of the better ones. Right now, Sakic, Naslund, Crosby, Kariya, Ovechkin are also in this group..

I would expect to find that the superstars almost always have one of the highest +/- on their teams, as long as those teams are more or less at or above .500. Of all the young players, I think Ovechkin has the best chance of reaching that elite level, followed by Crosby, followed by Kovy.

A note on Mario: he played on some super-****** Penguins teams, then was able to put them on his back and got the cup. Late in his career the Pens again began to suck.. so that +/- is not surprising. You've got to compare this +/- against other people on his teams in the seasons when they played together. Without that cup, Mario would be seen as a great player but still a failure by many, in the sense of not living up to expectations. Kovy is young, anything can happen.

 

[thenextone]

I remember when Pavel Bure scored 5 goals against Finland

what a day that was

 

[Ovechkin_mvp]

I remember when Pavel Bure scored 5 goals against Finland

what a day that was

Pavel's 5 goasl were all that much sweeter, since they were against a great opponent

 

[Berkut]

Pavel's 5 goasl were all that much sweeter, since they were against a great opponent

And in a semi-final!

 

[Ovechkin_mvp]

And in a semi-final!

I still can't forget that game..........well and then loosing to Hashek in such a boring way

 

[shawn_kemp*]

I still can't forget that game..........well and then loosing to Hashek in such a boring way

The video of that game is all over the Internet. Released just before Torino 2006.

 

[nameht]

The video of that game is all over the Internet. Released just before Torino 2006.

Link Please?

 

[dylan]

the +/- stat needs to die. its more of a team stat than an individual stat.